Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Sondrelk]

Thats fair, but how do we explain semi full hoods already right now, but have no people in it? Maybe I am just not understanding the system.. it seems its the whole phasing is a problem here.

I think that's due to how the developers decided people would phase into a random neighborhood. Just picking one at random seems unlikely, so they probably decided to phase players into one with a certain amount of the plots unoccupied. And since so few change neighborhoods from public to public, you end up with a lot of half filled neighborhoods where all the people who checked it out once, and didnt care to shop around end up.

[Reive]

Wow players are too asocial for neighborhoods to work. Blizzard should have given everyone a fully customizable island. They could have kept the same "do the older content to get decor" approach while making endeavors world events instead of neighborhood ones.

[Darkarath]

Wow players are too asocial for neighborhoods to work. Blizzard should have given everyone a fully customizable island. They could have kept the same "do the older content to get decor" approach while making endeavors world events instead of neighborhood ones.

Sadly I think that this might be the case.

Housing is successful enough but neighborhoods already look empty and I think that adding new neighborhoods down the line would be a mistake as it would only worsen the issue.

[Nibelheimy]

Also waiting on my collectors edition here.

With a checked out guild and only me, my partner my brother and a few friends playing. Smaller neighbourhoods would of been perfect.

[Alanar]

Wow players are too asocial for neighborhoods to work. Blizzard should have given everyone a fully customizable island. They could have kept the same "do the older content to get decor" approach while making endeavors world events instead of neighborhood ones.

Ye I think you are probably making sense here.

[Joshuaj]

Would it be correct to assume that Housing hasn’t been quite the smoking gun everyone assumed it would be?

Retail seems like a ghost town at the moment.

I mean, I think it's fine. It's mostly just decorating and vibing in the Neighborhood rn. Endeavors + the crazier customization options aren't even in yet.

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Thats fair, but how do we explain semi full hoods already right now, but have no people in it? Maybe I am just not understanding the system.. it seems its the whole phasing is a problem here.

There's nothing do to in the Neighborhoods rn outside of RP stuff.

[Cheezits]

Smaller, instanced plots will not only let the artists tackle a lot of racial themes, but they would sell very well on the cash shop. This isn't anything crazy as most MMOs with housing have estates in the cash shop. I would love an island in Bastion, or Nyalotha, etc.

But yeah I think judging neighborhoods when they actually don't have any gameplay content at the moment isn't fair.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Honestly until we have a Roadmap dooming about the Housing System seems a bit pointless. Yes, we can start dooming if the Roadmap is just 1-3+ Neighborhoods or something stupid like that. But, again we'll see.

Obviously I am biased towards a Roleplay Server overhaul and actually implementing a more Roleplay focused approach but obviously I do not expect that even if the wider industry has hinted to Blizzard that they probably should recognize the power of RP (That which is not of the erotic kind) to fuel continual engagement.

Also we don't know if the UGC timeline for Housing is long term or short term, it may be that UGC content like creating your own Obstacle Course and other form of content with rewards that players can interact with in the Housing System is on the Roadmap or it may be further out. We'll have to see. (It did sound like it was a hyper long term implementation goal later down the line though, so don't hold your horses on it!)

Ultimately, I think the Housing System is pretty great. It clearly showcases how Silo'd development can still create extremely polished and valueable content. Obviously, I still think they probably shouldn't have gimped their monetization so hard due to the costs but they did that out of the kindness of their heart naievely I suppose.

I also don't have access to the Housing System but I've watched and seen enough to fully understand that this is very good work done. I'm waiting for my Collector's Edition.

[Alanar]

I mean, I think it's fine. It's mostly just decorating and vibing in the Neighborhood rn. Endeavors + the crazier customization options aren't even in yet.

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There's nothing do to in the Neighborhoods rn outside of RP stuff.

Just a shame I just see random huts and not player creations. But it seems guilds is were its at, but since I am long past caring for being in a guild, I am going to let it slide and leave it for what it is then. Not to much into housing, but since I created something I was curious about others.

[Khaza-R]

Wow players are too asocial for neighborhoods to work. Blizzard should have given everyone a fully customizable island. They could have kept the same "do the older content to get decor" approach while making endeavors world events instead of neighborhood ones.

Not to be overly cynical but neighborhoods were always a marketing ploy to expose players to other people's creations in hopes they will see it and want to spend money on cash shop stuff.

Its like how the open world in D4 is afterthought because its primary purpose is just to expose you to other players MTX. You're actual interactions with other players is meaningless.

[Vakir]

Its like how the open world in D4 is afterthought because its primary purpose is just to expose you to other players MTX. You're actual interactions with other players is meaningless.

Ditto for why the camera is so close in with D4. They want you to see the MTX.

[Reive]

Not to be overly cynical but neighborhoods were always a marketing ploy to expose players to other people's creations in hopes they will see it and want to spend money on cash shop stuff.

Its like how the open world in D4 is afterthought because its primary purpose is just to expose you to other players MTX. You're actual interactions with other players is meaningless.

Want to hear a conspiracy?

Since 2021 Blizzard has been chasing the ffxiv crowd. The increased focus on the narrative, the removal of addons casual content and the game getting cutified are all attempts at "stealing" players from xiv. Heck, Housing was (not so) subtly marketed as ffxiv's housing but better.

[Lady Atia]

Want to hear a conspiracy?

Since 2021 Blizzard has been chasing the ffxiv crowd. The increased focus on the narrative, the removal of addons casual content and the game getting cutified are all attempts at "stealing" players from xiv. Heck, Housing was (not so) subtly marketed as ffxiv's housing but better.

Nothing wrong with that?^^ (as long as they keep mythic raids)

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Ditto for why the camera is so close in with D4. They want you to see the MTX.

Yeah but tbf, atleast D4 doesn't use toxic seasonal 0,1% fomo for it's rewards, right?

You can get everything from the store.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Want to hear a conspiracy?

Since 2021 Blizzard has been chasing the ffxiv crowd. The increased focus on the narrative, the removal of addons casual content and the game getting cutified are all attempts at "stealing" players from xiv. Heck, Housing was (not so) subtly marketed as ffxiv's housing but better.

That’s always been blizzards brews and butter, copy the other games on the market and do it better, they just lost the nack for it for a lokg time now.

[Vakir]

Yeah but tbf, atleast D4 doesn't use toxic seasonal 0,1% fomo for it's rewards, right?

You can get everything from the store.

I mean, it very distinctly has seasons and battle passes and FOMO. Top 0.1%, though, yeah no, because eventually everything is pretty easy with the right build and numbers minus, like, Hardcore Echo of Lilith fucking bullshit, or extremely sweaty hardcore PvP achievements.

WoW is definitely trying to pull in 14 players, which as someone who has enjoyed both I feel is bizarre, because they are literally strong in the opposite ways and are complementary in experience. 14 is effectively a really good single player JRPG with all but 1.5 of their expacs having superlative writing with enjoyable multiplayer systems but extremely rigid combat and raids structured around very predictable patterns. There is effectively no customization on a job besides materia. The multiplayer element of the MSQ is the experience of going through it and sharing the reaction and emotional impact with other players.

WoW has almost always had a story with holes you could drive a truck through and even at the best of times has simple characters driving the story, but its combat is dynamic and snappy and its endgame systems have a crazy high ceiling and there's self-expression of builds and gear even if people will usually settle on an optimized build. There is no multiplayer expression of the response to the story...beyond maybe the communal peanut gallery of "the fuck was that? Did they think that Emerald Dream Endgame portals cutscene was actually earned?" or some other unanimous confoundment.

Despite this, I'd bet a limb 14 will not change extremely rigid rotations with 2.5 sec base GCD speed and oGCD weaving to something smoother, and I bet another limb that WoW's story will continue to flounder while tripling down on the direction of its narrative.

I do think housing was a market corner they should have targeted and much sooner. WoW still has the trademark of being a collect-a-thon first or second.

[JohnnyCasual]

That’s always been blizzards brews and butter, copy the other games on the market and do it better, they just lost the nack for it for a lokg time now.

They grew complacent. Before ff14 there wasn't really any actual competition. Competition breeds innovation, or however that saying goes.

[Vakir]

They grew complacent. Before ff14 there wasn't really any actual competition. Competition breeds innovation, or however that saying goes.

I think that's worth pointing out, that it did get things moving, even if some of the weaknesses remain.

The gameplay systemically is 10x better than it was in BFA or SL.

People hated expansion temporary systems - we'll avoid calling them "borrowed power" because people will inevitably defend with "so are tier sets" - OK, here's a talent system closer to the pre-Mists era with flexibility by separating class and spec.

Eternal argument between flight at launch or not? Still exists, but. Fuck it. Here's our stolen version of the Skyscale from GW2. Now you have more active gameplay while flying and we'll tweak level design to compensate. YMMV if the level design is a huge step down or just a concession.

Too much instance content? Every single zone gets like 2-3 outdoor activities on top of the usual rares and treasures. Perhaps a bit overkill in DF.

Reps are unfriendly? We finally stuck to account wide Renown. Still alt unfriendly? Fine, we'll do Warbands. Whatever, we give up.

Giving 10 more talent points per expansion will break the game with these trees? Fine. Here's a third tree. We can use it as an excuse to make a lower effort version of Mountain King or Dark Ranger or whatnot.

I really don't think a lot of these pivots would have happened without competition. Some of it is imitating already existing competitors that weren't 14 anyway. A lot of the gimmicky zone threats and traversal plus Skyriding and DRIVE take a bunch from GW2, minus its expansion specific horizontal progression, which I think would be cool for them to mess with.

[Limayria]

I think the big problem with wow trying to get 14 players is people being put off by the extremely limited (comparatively) character creation for most races, especially for the people who are very active in housing in ff14 (I'm in a FC that runs a night club and many events in their house) getting new hair styles or outfits for their characters are an essential carrot for them, and then you look at something like how blizzard tr ate blood elves. The overwhelmingly most popular character model in the game, and even in the expansion focused on the blood elves homeland 0 new customization options, the same 30-40 hair styles or so with 95% of them being stuff that looked dated when it came out 17 years ago or however long it's been.


Even with housing being an excellent take on the idea, wow is always going to be fundamentally unappealing to many many people who care about making their characters look good

[Reive]

blizzard has always taken things from other games but it's clear that xiv is having a stronger than average influence on modern wow. the problem is that some of the concepts they're "stealing" either don't fit wow (them leaning more and more into cute things) or blizzard doesn't have enough skill to implement them properly (this whole saga scam). the end result is some cheap-feeling chimera. i know ffxiv is doing badly right now, but what happens once that game recovers? why would people pick wow over a game that does what wow is trying to do but better?

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even in the expansion focused on the blood elves

this misunderstanding is basically dooming midnight lol

[Vakir]

Eh. Regarding cuteness, BFA had the Vulpera, especially Meera. SL had the faeries in Ardenweald, even if they were appropriately fae chaotic in their behavior, and the Stewards. Really the most deliberately cute for the most sustained time I've seen it be was DF, for sure, but TWW and Midnight are very toothless, less so "cute," and the Disney design style goes back to the WoD player models. This was already happening before the big 9.1ish exodus.

They seem to be trying to keep a central pool of neutral main characters (a la the Scions), but that was also happening more in SL with the Blanduin Brigade than after the exodus. If anything, they've tried diversifying the focus a lot (Alleria overuse aside) but it's still with characters we end up hating, lol.

DF was definitely the biggest offender of style mimic, it was also when they started doing the profession changes (and made the new gear on them absolutely pathetic compared to 14's). But WoW also doesn't really go as "big" as Eastern spectacle sensibilities go other than Dimensius, who absolutely feels like the first trial of Endwalker with the serial numbers filed off and less interesting mechanics.