Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Joshuaj]

Calm down.

Right now I would say that it's very likely that Sargeras will be the last boss of the WSS. It won't happen until almost 2030, though.

So... Relax and have fun ! Enjoy Xal'athat !

I don't think he's gonna be the last boss. Imo, that's reserved for either Xal'atath, Iridikron, or Order itself (cause why not? I'd like to fight a Progenitor).

But I do wanna fight Sargeras, maybe in 13.1 or something?

[Ersula]

The first one is called padding (Though, idk if that's the right word to use, since the additions are pretty darn necessary), and the second is called a side story (that connects itself to the main story, mind you). Not filler. Try again.

Both those things are literally filler. What do you think filler is? What does anime do when they have to FILL time while they wait for the manga to catch up? PADDING. SIDE STORIES.

[Makabreska]

Both the Midnight story and the features being "not enough" (valid critique as Prey is just World Quests +, Devourer is a single spec and Housing is not gameplay oriented).

I like Housing but I understand that if you don't, and you don't like the expac setting, there's not much new for you.

Sorry, but since WoD I keep hearing during each expansion reveal, that it is a "filler".

And downplaying Housing, one of the most anticipated features, as not gameplay oriented, is just wrong. Every activity in WoW you participate is gameplay, and you have crapton of Housing items to hunt in the entire game.

[Joshuaj]

Both those things are literally filler. What do you think filler is? What does anime do when they have to FILL time while they wait for the manga to catch up? PADDING. SIDE STORIES.

Fillers are usually disconnected from the main plot entirely. Side stories are narratives that can still very much work alongside the main plot.

[Cheezits]

The last "filler" patch was one of my favorite in years (Undermine) so I really don't care about a patch's connection to WoW's story having any impact on the quality of the game.

[Joshuaj]

And I already talked about the padding bit lmao. It wasn't the right word to use in hindsight.

[Darkarath]

I don't think he's gonna be the last boss. Imo, that's reserved for either Xal'atath, Iridikron, or Order itself (cause why not? I'd like to fight a Progenitor).

But I do wanna fight Sargeras, maybe in 13.1 or something?

I can assure you one thing.

If we ever fight Sargeras, it will be as the last boss of an expansion.

The last "filler" patch was one of my favorite in years (Undermine) so I really don't care about a patch's connection to WoW's story having any impact on the quality of the game.

Best X.1 patch in the history of the game faaaar above any other contender.

[Makabreska]

Well, what would you call it when you take the planned end of one expansion & move it two expansions later? What do you call settling a sibling dispute in Zul'aman in a Trilogy about the worldsoul?

You know internally at Blizzard "troll patch" & "filler" mean the same thing, right?

What would you call us dealing with Nightmare in expansion called Legion? Or Old Gods in expansion called Wrath of the Lich King? And where do you get this behind-the-scenes Blizz stuff?

[Joshuaj]

I can assure you one thing.

If we ever fight Sargeras, it will be as the last boss of an expansion.

You think or you know?

Cause Sargeras might end up being like KJ. KJ was the main antagonist and "final boss" of TBC, but we actually face his full power in the middle raid of Legion.

Sargeras could be similar, in that he's the main antagonist of Legion (and was present in the final raid, albeit not fightable), but he might be the middle boss of TLT, which wouldn't hurt imo.

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Sargeras already kinda fell off after his entire armada fell into disarray due to a lack of proper authority. The Legion's chain of command is all but non existent rn, and the main infrastructure fell apart after our assault at Antorus + the Illidari's ordeal at Nathreza.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

After gamescom I said this whole saga thing feels like 2 expansions with the pricetag of 3 expansions & everybody told me I was insane. Glad to see that's now the general consensus.

2 expansions??? They literally created a new zone to redirect the Midnights expansion concept so they could funnel her to the Manifold. We got 1 expansion and even thats up in the air considering how grand scope that expansion is and how it doesn't feel like we have any fuel left in the tank to show not tell the story in a way that energizes and engages audiences.

The Last Titan is the only expansion we got and even then its' eerily similar to the state of Shadowlands in that "Well? Are you going to do anything?". For all we know they have no plans again and its just Aman'thuls robot body kneeling before us again. The Saga was a farce for a short term marketing gain, nothing more and nothing less.

[Cheezits]

how it doesn't feel like we have any fuel left in the tank to show not tell the story in a way that energizes and engages audiences.

I'm starting to remember that some of the most "hype periods" for WoW (Cata cinematic, WOD cinematic, BFA cinematic) came right before some of the worst periods to be playing the game.

Wow isn't a moodboard, it's a video game. The game being shit to talk about online =/= the game is bad, or vice versa.

[Ersula]

What would you call us dealing with Nightmare in expansion called Legion? Or Old Gods in expansion called Wrath of the Lich King? And when do you get this behind-the-scenes stuff?

I'd say its the difference between getting those side stories as extra content on top of our standard three raid tiers, rather than getting these plot cul-de-sacs as replacements for our three raid tiers. Because that's the difference between then & now.

Xal'atath is the main villain of this "saga" ... Does she show up at all in 12.0 content? No. Her entire role is to smirk, menacingly in the cinematic. She's showing up in a phase of the last raid encounter....that's it. Do you all realize that?

Gamon has more screentime in 12.0 than Xalatath does. And its her face on the box. Let that sink in.

[Darkarath]

You think or you know?

I know. Actually any Warcraft fan knows it.

Cause Sargeras might end up being like KJ. KJ was the main antagonist and "final boss" of TBC, but we actually face his full power in the middle raid of Legion.

You said yourself. KJ already was the final boss of TBC. Even if he wasn't, KJ is not Sargeras.

Sargeras could be similar, in that he's the main antagonist of Legion (and was present in the final raid, albeit not fightable), but he might be the middle boss of TLT, which wouldn't hurt imo.

We have never fight Sargeras. When we do, he will be the final boss of the expansion. Any other option would be sacrilege.

I'm sorry but there is no possible discussion here.

[Makabreska]

I'd say its the difference between getting those side stories as extra content on top of our standard three raid tiers, rather than getting these plot cul-de-sacs as replacements for our three raid tiers. Because that's the difference between then & now.

Xal'atath is the main villain of this "saga" ... Does she show up at all in 12.0 content? No. Her entire role is to smirk, menacingly in the cinematic.

What? Nigthmare and Yogg werent on top of raid tiers, they were part of it. Same with Undermine and incoming troll raid. It all feels like you simply deny it being a viable side-story, because you don't like it. Which is the main reason word "filler" lost it's weight ages ago.

And Xal shows up. She is fully present in Voidspire raid. And will defo also be present at the final boss in Silvermoon. Not sure why you assumed she will be completely gone.

[Xilurm]

I don't know why some people are hyped about an Avaloren expansion if they think TWW and Midnight are filler. You're gonna hate it just as much, if not more.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I'm starting to remember that some of the most "hype periods" for WoW (Cata cinematic, WOD cinematic, BFA cinematic) came right before some of the worst periods to be playing the game.

Wow isn't a moodboard, it's a video game. The game being shit to talk about online =/= the game is bad, or vice versa.

Congratulations for missing the point and ascertaining that I somehow attribute myself to that logic. The game is really good, so I don't even know how you came to this conclusion I've literally repeatedly stated that I love the game and enjoy the Roadmaps since they were introduced so I don't know how you attributed this to me at all.

We can't even generate those 3 minute hype stuff anymore, anyways. So its' a moot point since we got a double whammy situation now.

[Joshuaj]

I know. Actually any Warcraft fan knows it.



You said yourself. KJ already was the final boss of TBC. Even if he wasn't, KJ is not Sargeras.



We have never fight Sargeras. When we do, he will be the final boss of the expansion. Any other option would be sacrilege.

I'm sorry but there is no possible discussion here.

I'll keep this in mind.

[Khaza-R]

Housing is something you can't just ignore, so that is a definite something.
Addon-apocalypse is a long overdue change that will hopefully lead to bosses that are easier to understand, making it easier for new players to get into them.
Class changes isn't going to be everybody's cup of tea. But it's there, and make the developers give another Legion style once-over on all classes.
Prey isn't exactly the same as Heroic World Tier from Lemix. But it is a step in that direction. Which could make the open world more interesting. And, at least to me, give a chance of no-flying returning to the game, which is also needed to make the world more lively.

Nothing in Midnight seems to be offensively bad. Or at least, nothing that isn't just the continuation of the status quo, like boring protagonists.
Many of the changes are divisive. But for cases like the zones, they are more boring than bad. Harandar doesn't look to be an awful zone, just weird in the context of it seeming like it's transplanted from another expansion. And Voidstorm, while very boring as a launch zone, doesn't look to be awful as much as ill fitting. The issues with the zones seem to more be about wanting something else, rather than the zones being terrible.

When I say ignore, I mean that is was developed by an entirely different team. Its completely out of the scope of normal expansion. So yes, we should ignore it when comparing it to TWW let's say

As for the rest of your post, I never said any of it is bad. It isn't great either. It doesn't feel like something that's been pre-planned for 3 expansions should feel like. Its messy. Perhaps 12.1 and 12.2 will be amazing and we will see the full fruition of this this saga idea. But right now, I'm not feeling it.

[Eldryth]

I think the biggest issue with the Saga so far is that they didn't do enough to connect the various plotlines. TWW set up Xal'atath, and it foreshadowed the Titans quite a bit... but those two threads rarely, if ever, really crossed paths. And it's especially noticeable since Midnight doesn't seem to involve the Titans at all aside from one likely point in Harandar's backstory (though I do expect that will change in the final tier since the story seems to be building to the Worldcore).

If we had more Titanic involvement in this current conflict- like actual Keepers battling the Void (would have been a great place to involve Tyr after his revival...), and lore about the Pantheon's past battles with the Void, with Xal'atath involved in that... I think that would have gone a long way to make this actually feel like the unified Saga we were promised. As it is, it feels more like TWW just set up two completely distinct expansions.

I will take two good zones over a mystery OCslop expansion by the creative team that brought you two of my least favorite landmasses ever (DI and Shadowlands) and made the Haranir.

I, for one, am all for expanding the world... but they absolutely need to take the time to plan them out more, seed them in the story before we go there, integrate them more with the wider world...

Had we gone straight to the Empire after TWW, as may very well had been planned, I doubt it would have gone over well. But if they take these extra years to figure out their story and make it good, and use the Hallowfall Arathi to set it up more... I can see that ending up as a very exciting setting if it's executed well.

[Joshuaj]

I'd say its the difference between getting those side stories as extra content on top of our standard three raid tiers, rather than getting these plot cul-de-sacs as replacements for our three raid tiers. Because that's the difference between then & now.

Xal'atath is the main villain of this "saga" ... Does she show up at all in 12.0 content? No. Her entire role is to smirk, menacingly in the cinematic. She's showing up in a phase of the last raid encounter....that's it. Do you all realize that?

Gamon has more screentime in 12.0 than Xalatath does. And its her face on the box. Let that sink in.

Gamon has more screentime? What?

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Also, here is the thing about the heads of the Void...

They're usually in the background, as a looming threat. The Old Gods were like this, Dimensius was like this, and now Xal'atath is like this.