Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Ersula]

And Xal shows up. She is fully present in Voidspire raid.

No, she isn't. I can't wait for Xal to make her first appearance in Midnight, 6 or 7 months from now.

[Cheezits]

If we're judging villains by their presence in launch questing, I think we are going to have to agree that the Jailer is the #1 villain. Maybe #2 after Garrosh (who unironically was handled great with amazing build up in Mists).

[Makabreska]

Well, I can't wait for Xal to make her first appearance in Midnight, 6 or 7 months from now.

Midnight launches in little over 3 month, raids few weeks later. Assuming we wont see her at all during questing (which I doubt, because the only source of this info right now is you), where did you get this 6-7 months? Why are you giving us such obvious and easily disproven untruths?

[Cheezits]

Midnight launches in little over 3 month, raid few weeks later. Assuming we wont see her at all during questing (which I doubt, because the only source of this info right now is you), where did you get this 6-7 months?

I don't think you understand. Xal is not a satisfying villain for discussing WoW every few days constantly on MMOC.

[Makabreska]

I don't think you understand. Xal is not a satisfying villain for discussing WoW every few days constantly on MMOC.

Then maybe they should move to Rule34 Xal section? I heard there is plenty material there.

[Bozzoltank]

I know. Actually any Warcraft fan knows it.



You said yourself. KJ already was the final boss of TBC. Even if he wasn't, KJ is not Sargeras.



We have never fight Sargeras. When we do, he will be the final boss of the expansion. Any other option would be sacrilege.

I'm sorry but there is no possible discussion here.

I doubt they'd have us fight Sargeras in anything but a final raid of a saga, or an expansion, but we cannot put it up as a guarantee. The same was said about Azshara and Illidan. One of the most powerful spellcasters on Azeroth and one of Blizzard's most recognizable characters, and yet they were the penultimate "final" bosses of their respective expansions.

[Mackud]

Now, to be fair, no MMO right now has a good story. Maybe FFXIV, but ever since Endbringer, it's been more miss than hit, and even so, that is a singleplayer game with MMO elements rather than vice versa.

Like, look at Guild Wars 2. They haven't had a good release since... I don't even know, early Icebrood Saga? I do think a lot of people in this thread just aren't used to actually bad writing, because WoW is incredibly serviceable. The biggest crime that WoW commits is that it is boring and predictable.

2 things.

The story remarkably improved after the following patches and gave the story a new super villian to look forward to, which was the objective.

And secondly, it wasn't the story of the original, it was the pacing.

Go here
Speak with Wuk Lumat
Kill 1 toad
Speak with Wuk Lumat
Turn left
Speak with Wuk Lumat
Eat an apple
Speak with Wuk Lumat

As someone who enjoys making random alts on questing in the most obscure zones in WoW for any breadcrumbs which may become relevant in the future, I re-did the story with an open mind to see if it was just the hype how bad it was, and I actually gave up, that's how bad it was.

But as said before it did remarkably improve in the .1 .2 .3 etc patches.

The only common thing occuring is both companies have men in suits who don't play games calling the shots - They moved the entire development team to FF16 when 14 was single handedly keeping the balance books green, and 16 ended up making a loss anyways. Unsurprisingly the man at the top got replaced very quickly.

[huth]

The only common thing occuring is both companies have men in suits who don't play games calling the shots - They moved the entire development team to FF16 when 14 was single handedly keeping the balance books green, and 16 ended up making a loss anyways. Unsurprisingly the man at the top got replaced very quickly.

Well, 2025 certainly proved that businessmen with no gaming creds are horrenduously bad at running game companies.

[Joshuaj]

I can assure you one thing.

If we ever fight Sargeras, it will be as the last boss of an expansion.



Best X.1 patch in the history of the game faaaar above any other contender.

Speaking of Sargeras, someone made this: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/8B3gGO

This looks fucking amazing! It's literally just a more detailed version of how Sargeras looks in his Hearthstone Hero Skin, and I love it.

I think TLT's version of Sargeras may end up looking like this, but maybe with the Antorus Cinematic Horns (Though, I find it funny how the Antorus Cinematic version of Sargeras is the only depiction of the character with the unique horns, since every other depiction has him with the typical horns) + maybe the Necklace Gem thingy and added left chest spikes from the 7.3 Key Art (Though, I can excuse the lack of a necklace gem or strap due to the beard lol. His Antorus cinematic self also didn't have the necklace gem and strap lol).

The shoulderpads might look more like his Antorus Cinematic version as well, or they'll look like his 7.3 Key Art shoulders, but idk. I do like how this person did the shoulders, with them looking like more detailed versions of his Antorus shoulderpads lol.

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I do hope Blizzard keeps the Antorus horns for Sargeras. They made him look unique. Though, if they use the regular horns for his TLT model, that's fine too. Ik the Antorus model wasn't a fully fledged out one, to certain creative liberties had to be made.

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Actually, wait, where is GoldenYak? Cause that Sargeras design looks VERY similar to that 1 art piece he made of Sargeras

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Also, Sargeras with demon legs >>> Sargeras with titan legs

I will stand by this agenda forever! He's a Demon Titan (The Fel literally warped his entire body and gave him demonic features), let him look like a Demon!

[Jaggler]

Undermine is great, and you really feel where the patch's story took a nosedive where it pivots from the original TWW story to cram it into the WSS (with K'aresh then being another lowpoint). I really think they should have let TWW play out as planned and then start with their Saga. Shifting focus midway through wasn't really that great imo.

[Darkarath]

Undermine is great, and you really feel where the patch's story took a nosedive where it pivots from the original TWW story to cram it into the WSS (with K'aresh then being another lowpoint). I really think they should have let TWW play out as planned and then start with their Saga. Shifting focus midway through wasn't really that great imo.

I think that in the long run Blizzard might have made the right decision.

I liked K'aresh, although it's clearly underdeveloped and it clearly wasn't the initial 11.2. But at least for me it makes perfect sense before Midnight and I still take the K'aresh that we got before the Rootlands as 11.2.

That would have been a disaster. I much rather explore the Rootlands (Harandar) in Midnight than as the final patch of TWW, although it is a shame that it's instanced and not connected to Khaz Algar.

[Dracullus]

Are peeps now starting to say that X expansion is less of an expansion, because of the story? Like, suddenly gameplay became secondary?

That's what happen when people spend to much discussing same thing over and over again. We are starting to have takes like "Avaloren would be better idea" and "Undermine/Karesh are barebone filler patches".

Midnight is in 2 months, just take damn break people, I promise you it will make WoW 10x more fun for you.

[Super Dickmann]

Undermine is great, and you really feel where the patch's story took a nosedive where it pivots from the original TWW story to cram it into the WSS (with K'aresh then being another lowpoint). I really think they should have let TWW play out as planned and then start with their Saga. Shifting focus midway through wasn't really that great imo.

Not enough is made of just how silly getting to K'aresh is too. Right after the guy steals the Dark Heart, the main plot just continues undeterred regarding Gallywix so it can shovel the goblins fully into the primordial ooze of peace. Even the last quest is, though we know Xal didn't want them to get it, non-committal as to their role. Maybe they were stealing it back? Alleria leaves to pursue it with no amount of urgency. The Shadowguard then try to kill Locus-Walker in the lorewalking, but even still no one there brings up resurrecting Dimensius or going to K'aresh.

Then, 11.2 hits, you walk into a lobby. Alleria meets you in the lobby and even she seems preternaturally aware of how the plot has pivoted:

Alleria Windrunner says: You want us to abandon our hunt for Xal'atath?
Locus-Walker says: Dimensius the All-Devouring is being revived by the Shadowguard. I need your help.

Then, Locus-Walker just has a portal lying around to the ethereal homeworld and the plot commences, over which time it even forgets its own hook. Who was the guy who stole the Dark Heart and hijacked the entire expansion? Fucking no one that's who. He doesn't even show up until the very end as a generic quest mob.

Everything else not ethereal related is completely forgotten by the narrative with zero mention. Nothing about Orweyna, the open woons, the Black Blood or any other throughline of the expansion continues. Not even geographically, as outer space is the exact opposite of a cave. This is despite the fact that said patch had Gallywix and goblins were in from Day 1, so surely they could've connected it more naturally by bringing in the deals he made with the Brokers from Tazavesh way back in Shadowlands. Have him double cross Xal to the highest bidder instead of getting randomly robbed by some rando and then present the threat of Dimensius immediately. Up until that infodump by Locus-Walker in the very last patch, no party involved knows what's going on or has much urgency to care. It's bafflingly put together.

I say that as an overly long prelude that, hand to my heart, while Undermine is a better zone mechanically and in atmosphere and it's unique for it, the main plot, in particular its ending, was insufferable, whereas K'aresh (with its sidequests and short story) was much more enjoyable than any other patch story they've put out in the last couple years.

[Makorus]

That's what happen when people spend to much discussing same thing over and over again. We are starting to have takes like "Avaloren would be better idea" and "Undermine/Karesh are barebone filler patches".

Midnight is in 2 months, just take damn break people, I promise you it will make WoW 10x more fun for you.

To be fair, Avaloren is built up as a better saga than the World Soul Saga is so far, simply because there is buildup, which is why I genuinely hope they aren't throwing it away in a patch for no reason whatsoever. The only problem with that is that it has Titan-stuff going on there, so I could totally see them wasting it as 12.2

[Xilurm]

To be fair, Avaloren is built up as a better saga than the World Soul Saga is so far, simply because there is buildup, which is why I genuinely hope they aren't throwing it away in a patch for no reason whatsoever. The only problem with that is that it has Titan-stuff going on there, so I could totally see them wasting it as 12.2

Xal'atath has been built up since Legion though.

[Makorus]

Xal'atath has been built up since Legion though.

She hasn't been "built up" since Legion. That's like saying Saurfang has been "built up" since Classic when he showed up in BfA.

She is, for all intents and purposes, a completely different character.

[Xilurm]

She hasn't been "built up" since Legion. That's like saying Saurfang has been "built up" since Classic when he showed up in BfA.

She is, for all intents and purposes, a completely different character.

In this case saying "oh we're a people who worship the light, have an emperor and live on an island in the middle of nowhere" is considered "built up" then idk what to tell you.

[Lady Atia]

I said from the beginning that K'aresh made no sense as a narrative stepping stone and it being in TWW would undermine the building of tension, but if your marker for "what is an expansion" is the degree to which some significant threat faction is advanced towards being defeated then half the expansions aren't actually "expansions".

Like sure, I agree it feels like setup not resolution. So does BC, where the Legion are an extremely secondary threat not resolved at all. So is Cata where the Naga just do what they want and swim off and N'zoth is brought up to not be seen or addressed for almost a decade. So is MoP, which is just the self-contained prologue for WoD, which is just a very long prologue to put Gul'dan in to actually get around to Legion stuff.

It's an extremely normal expansion. If Midnight and TLT are just more TWW, then we will have had three regular expansions.

Tbf, MoP-WoD-Legion already feel like a proto-saga with BfA and Shadowlands as the epilogues to it.

[Super Dickmann]

Tbf, MoP-WoD-Legion already feel like a proto-saga with BfA and Shadowlands as the epilogues to it.

Every expansion after Cataclysm has been directly connected to the previous, some more torturously than others. Only Dragonflight has been completely divorced in terms of setup. TWW actually ranks about on par with connectivity to stuff like WoD -> Legion and BFA -> SL, in terms of an unfought bad guy bringing their invasion plan into motion by opening an anus in space.

[Makorus]

In this case saying "oh we're a people who worship the light, have an emperor and live on an island in the middle of nowhere" is considered "built up" then idk what to tell you.

Except we don't just have that.

Avaloren has gotten the following the last two expansions:

Obviously Arathi.
Erinethria who presumably raised her own brood of dragons.
Nightsquall who is building the largest pirate fleet.
"Heretics" who've done something with a Titan Keeper and are dangerous enough for Odyn to send several fleets after them.
Naga.
Some type of magical storm.

That's the difference, they didn't just create a character/factions that they will use 4 expansions down the line. They actively keep seeding more things on the continent.