Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I don't think TLT reveal at Blizzcon is in any way shape or form a good thing from a consumer angle. Its' just funny to see the same recurring concept of "If current expansion sucks, next one will cook" and we're going to do it again with 14.0. Again, don't get me wrong if they cook 12.2 -> 13.2 then yeah it actually starts with a good first impression with audience cheering at Blizzcon. But again, we do not see any sort of passion or effort here and we clearly have a business side that recognizes that the art of the IP is now abandoned so again I am skeptical that this will actually be what I envisioned they would do. I mean it is a proper moment to do so if they have second thoughts on what they're currently doing though.

I don't know, also both Classic+ and Retail can succeed as both are contained within the same product known as World of Warcraft. There's also something to be said that any aspirations that Classic+ is something more than a SoD thing is also quite ridiculous considering the current restraints they have internally.

I think r/wow is the most "general" WoW community. Almost 1 mil users, funny lewd pictures made with housing + people still gawking at Pepe the bird in 2026 while asking what's the best race for X and other timeless questions.

I don't think Story ever starts damaging the game until we have such blatantly insanely stupid Raid Cinematics and they refuse to just do some story marketing with out of game Youtube Videos. Considering how easy it is for them to get off the hook with a 3 minute thing there's plenty of opportunity to never create a scenario where Story criticism and feedback gets a public plaza to be talked about.

Obviously if everything is directionless or the people creating the material do not have a deep connection to the Universe then it is very hard though to direct anything that resonates and engages audiences. But if they shoot their shot within the last two expansions on occasions they will hit bullseye at some point.

I don't really see any disinterest in the franchise, the Roadmap expansions have been excellent outside of the Story issue and the 6 month timeline removal being ultimately about upping the game releases by 6 months for profit driven reasons.

The only thing that spooks me is that in general Gaming it seems World of Warcraft just exists and has a hard time gaining curiousity from outside of WoW sphere more than usual but thats just my subjective observation online whenever news drop regarding WoW.

[Avikur]

Why are people so negative about midnight? is it the story, the content, or the addon / class changes - or a combination of all of that?

[Cheezits]

Why are people so negative about midnight? is it the story, the content, or the addon / class changes - or a combination of all of that?

Most of the takes from this thread:

Story- Not hype enough, Alleria/Windrunner fatigue, don't like Arator, Xal is generic and unexplained for too long. Also some clueless lore-noob devs doing weird stuff during beta (which were fixed but left a bad taste).
Content- Too much of the same, not enough new stuff besides Housing. Also quite a few dislikes of new Silvermoon.
Addon/class changes- People haven't elaborated on why these are bad, though I've heard a few classes are really bad (Fire Mage).

Some of the new classes look amazing though- sub rogue anyone?

[Redwyrm]

Most of the takes from this thread:

Story- Not hype enough, Alleria/Windrunner fatigue, don't like Arator, Xal is generic and unexplained for too long. Also some clueless lore-noob devs doing weird stuff during beta (which were fixed but left a bad taste).
Content- Too much of the same, not enough new stuff besides Housing. Also quite a few dislikes of new Silvermoon.
Addon/class changes- People haven't elaborated on why these are bad, though I've heard a few classes are really bad (Fire Mage).

To add (but not agree with, just listing), another revamp of old zones expansion. Kind of the "Been there, done that" meme.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

For all the story faults, I have never been more positive about World of Warcraft as I really do enjoy the Roadmap expansions so far and what they've done and announced while also keeping a extremely frictionless and fun Game to play. The surprises and what they've developed has positively changed World of Warcraft for the better when in the past we would just have the same structure and nothing new being implemented due to our loop of Borrowed Power and Infinity Systems.

So like while I can say I am very much disappointed in everything that has happened since Blizzcon 2023 and with their behavior, at least its' still a really fun game to keep interacting with.

[SaintBigfoot]

People have been asking for revamp content forever. What are you talking about?

[Cheezits]

People have been asking for revamp content forever. What are you talking about?

I don't think it's common sentiment here but there are definitely people who prefer completely new stuff over revamps.

That being said, the last revamp was Cata in 2010- I am not counting WoD as it is instead inspired by Outland and doing its own thing zonewise.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

To be fair, I don't think Harandar and Voidstorm are seen with much positivity so either. Obviously, I have my extreme questioning of what in the fuck was Voidstorm. But, like obviously them doing a Full Northern Lordaeron + Quel'thalas Focus was some fever dream fantasy land in the first place.

[Cheezits]

To be fair, I don't think Harandar and Voidstorm are seen with much positivity so either. Obviously, I have my extreme questioning of what in the fuck was Voidstorm. But, like obviously them doing a Full Northern Lordaeron + Quel'thalas Focus was some fever dream fantasy land in the first place.

Harandar became more palatable to loreheads with the Rift of Aln and Dark Troll reveals, but Voidstorm is just Purple Antoran Wastes. Its biggest benefit is coming at the beginning of the expansion over the ending, and that Void Elves finally are a real race.

- - - Updated - - -

Oops, Classic+ basically confirmed.

https://www.wowhead.com/classic/news...79884#comments

However, for the past few years I have steadily shifted further and further towards game design and implementation as my primary focus. During Season of Discovery in particular I created a variety of content including a number of class rune discoveries, the Tarnished Undermine Real system, the Shadowy Figure questlines, several of the BWL epic weapon quests, and the Ashbringer legendary questline, to name just a few things I worked on.

As a result, last year I officially changed roles from Game Production to Game Design. I've got my whole focus now dedicated to helping lead the long term vision for content and narrative on the classic team, while continuing to implement new content.

So that's the biggest reason I've been so silent and will probably continue to be relatively quiet for the time being. It wouldn't be very appropriate for me to comment on projects like Anniversary and MoP Classic or answer questions about them due to my now-reduced involvement there.

[Zardas]

People have been asking for revamp content forever. What are you talking about?

"People" as in "the million of players each with different desire for what the game should be" ? There is general consensus on anything, let alone revamp. Some want them, while other want new stuff.

[Sondrelk]

Most of the takes from this thread:

Story- Not hype enough, Alleria/Windrunner fatigue, don't like Arator, Xal is generic and unexplained for too long. Also some clueless lore-noob devs doing weird stuff during beta (which were fixed but left a bad taste).
Content- Too much of the same, not enough new stuff besides Housing. Also quite a few dislikes of new Silvermoon.
Addon/class changes- People haven't elaborated on why these are bad, though I've heard a few classes are really bad (Fire Mage).

Some of the new classes look amazing though- sub rogue anyone?

A lot of it is also the general malaise you get from players thinking more fondly of the things they don't know for sure, compared to the things they do.
In this case, the Midnight launch experience is a known entity. Players might not actually have played it themselves and seen how it feels. But they do know whether they like the zones, or dungeon layouts, or any of that. Whereas even just TLT is more vague, and 14.0 even more so. So when players think forward, those feel more exciting.

[Skildar]

Why are people so negative about midnight? is it the story, the content, or the addon / class changes - or a combination of all of that?

On my part :

• the opening cinematic is a complete miss : We don't get to see Blood Elves sorcerers or archers and they've messed up their design for Liadrin who looks and feel like she's a teen. Xal'Atath feels like a Sylvanas knock-off and the cinematic ends with an anticlimactic scene with an Army of Light that they don't want you to recognise
• the last patch of TWW was butchered to a point that makes little sense : Varesa gets a vision because? the vision looks like a product for PS2, she tosses her only reminder of her late husband into the sea because? Then you get introduced to Arathor who looks for support into saving Silvermoon and no one is able to shake him except for Sylvanas. In my opinion they should have left this character alone in the Maw, it's no penance if she gets a visitor every expansion. And they also take the time to make her change her mind about her past actions for absolutely no reason except the devs not taking the time to check her last lines of dialogue in the game. To top it all it ends with an out of nowhere cinematic of Alleria chasing a random Ethereal who it turns out to be the last missing piece for Xal to summon the Void Spire
• the in game API changes are a welcome initiative and most of the community, especially in the add-on dev has been in favour of it when first brought up. But they've managed to adopt a timeline for this change that is very unhealthy and so badly handled that I'm in a position where I will lose my artsy interface because I will be unable to read how many charges some specific class-spec spells and cooldowns have and how much time is left for their recharge. To me customising the looks of my interface is much more important than having a house in the game, especially in an mmo with 30 or more buttons and 20 or more active buffs. A quick example is that I much rather have two coloured rectangles next to an spell icon than reading a number 2 in that spell icon, same goes for having a texture or a resource bar changing colour than checking 2 or 3 spell/buff icons
• the Haranir are visually a success but their lore isn't in symbiosis with the rest of the game story and for now they don't bring a lot, Orweyna by herself already did the job which she stole from Magni...
• I love going back to old zones and checking how they've reimagined them, but unfortunately this time they've stripped Silvermoon and Eversong Forest of a lot of its magic. They should have double down on it using game visual technology that they couldn't in BC instead of making the zones feel lacking of history and passion (basically what you feel like in the Dragon Isles)
• Zul'Aman story is a huge miss of what the Elven-Troll enthusiasts are expecting. Trolls get a cliche storyline, Elves are getting very little of the disrespect for the Amani and feeling of being in control of anything. I've quickly wondered how the Elves could end up on so many fronts all these years while having both the scourge and the Amani being this powerful next to their home. I think only once you get the feeling of being allowed to feel condescending to the Amani Trolls because of how much more secure and powerful Blood Elves are. It's not a question of wanting to play an A-hole, it's just that Blood Elves are kind of entitled to being able to express that, their whole history is them acting selfishly.
• raid rewards are not being iterated upon enough to balance how the game could encourage you to play in an healthier way (heroic raiders are getting way better rewards by investing their time in m+)
• prey system is repetitive and takes way too much time to get the same reward a delve offers. And it doesn't feel like something that complements World Quest, it almost plays against it
• the last months of WoW have been focused on Legion Remix when the expansion only had 3 seasons with a big miss on the last zone added. This doesn't inspire confidence for what is to come
• it's hard to formulate it in a way that isn't ridiculous but I think I'm too stingy to pay this much for an expansion launch, they keep rising the prices and it's becoming an issue especially when they're upfront with their new model of shorter expansion

[TheProphetLord]

Why are people so negative about midnight? is it the story, the content, or the addon / class changes - or a combination of all of that?

Personally, my main issue is the Haranir.

The race and their zone feel like cut War Within content, the fact that we are once again going Underground in Midnight reinforces that they should have been in the previous expansion. I would have much rather have had another patch focused on the Haranir than shift straight into another expansion. Like, I paid for the War Within, the fact that this stuff was moved into another expansion which I have to pay for annoyed me.

The inclusion of the Haranir, killed my hopes for High Elves and Forest Trolls as allied races for Midnight. Races that I think should have been playable ages ago and might have had some interesting class combinations different from Blood Elves/Void Elves and Darkspear/Zandalari.

[Runick]

Personally, my main issue is the Haranir.

The inclusion of the Haranir, killed my hopes for High Elves and Forest Trolls as allied races for Midnight. Races that I think should have been playable ages ago and might have had some interesting class combinations different from Blood Elves/Void Elves and Darkspear/Zandalari.

Agreed. My main issue with Midnight also has to do with Haranir and the approach to implementing races in general. Every time they introduce an OC race to the game as playable instead of an established race, my hype takes a hit - especially when there are such obvious and fan-favorite races right there. I felt the same when they introduced void elves instead of high elves, lightforged instead of broken, and dracthyr instead of any other type of established dragonkin.

To be going to the homeland of the high elves and forest trolls - both of which have existed in the lore for over 20 years, but remain unplayable - and to somehow only get Haranir out of the deal is a bummer. I'd see Haranir a lot more favorably if they were released alongside other, more long-requested, more setting-established races. It feels like they're trying to hook me with something that's brand new, when I guess I fundamentally don't want something brand new - I want what I've been looking at but been unable to play as for years.

[Cheezits]

I wouldn't count out Helf and Amani yet but not having them at launch was a mistake, even if they thought new players wouldn't care about them.

[Nightshade711]

I wouldn't count out Helf and Amani yet but not having them at launch was a mistake, even if they thought new players wouldn't care about them.

Helves are already playable by both factions right now though....
Amani I doubt because that requires blizzard adding a race people actually want. Most we're probably going to get is the green skin tones that were datamined.

[Joshuaj]

No build this week, it seems.

[KOREAN DAVE]

Why are people so negative about midnight? is it the story, the content, or the addon / class changes - or a combination of all of that?

I’m stoked for Midnight. TWW has been the longest I’ve stayed subbed since before Shadowlands. It’ll be a year in February. I just wanted to pop in and say there are plenty of people who are positive about the expansion. The story might make me cringe but the gameplay systems they’ve introduced have been excellent at keeping me engaged. I’m even doing PvP to get rewards.

[Schwert]

People aren't going to be negative on spaces like Reddit where you'll get banned or swarmed for even saying "I don't like thing."

[Pheraz]

Why are people so negative about midnight? is it the story, the content, or the addon / class changes - or a combination of all of that?

Personally I'm not super negative because I love housing and I think they did a great job with eversong revamp. But what I don't like is the general idea behind the expansion. I don't think the zone makes a good introduction into an xpac. They should have called it "something with northern EK" and add more tension to more zones. I also feel like it would have been a good xpac for more conflicts between known races.

But the biggest bummer for me is how they write the main stories currently. Listen to this main character and his feelings for 20 quests and nothing is really happening. Also with every bit of void elf lore my wish to push the revert this race button becomes bigger.

Even if bfa was annoying with the systems I loved the general action, tension and the zones and faction war. There was so much stuff going on. Kul tiras. Zandalar, Nazjatar, Mechagon, war fronts, island expeditions... It's hard to count and the music and art was maybe the best they ever did. I'm putting bfa into the ring because it also revamped, it also had exploring known to lore zones etc. The game itself is super fine. Maybe the best gameplay yet because no annoying systems.

I guess or I hope that the two big patches we don't know yet bring some more excitement otherwise I'm also questioning the current expansion model.

I'm playing anyways because housing and night elves (Glad e have another xpac without night elf lore so they can't kill more more of them) and I love this game.