Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Makorus]

It's because a Void invasion of cities wouldn't make sense with how the expansion start is being framed (or the actual expansion actually happens).

The Void isn't actually invading Azeroth like the Legion was. It literally gets stopped.

[Joshuaj]

It's because a Void invasion of cities wouldn't make sense with how the expansion start is being framed (or the actual expansion actually happens).

The Void isn't actually invading Azeroth like the Legion was. It literally gets stopped.

Reminder that the beginning of the expac isn't even the Void's true invasion. Xal'atath mentions the Void's true invasion happening later on, and that the mortals would see it coming.

Pretty sure it has to do with them using the Darkwell to enter Azeroth from within. Makes me wonder if the Light's gonna use more than just the Vanguard at the Worldcore as well

[Ersula]

Pretty sure it has to do with them using the Darkwell to enter Azeroth from within. Makes me wonder if the Light's gonna use more than just the Vanguard at the Worldcore as well

But that is what seems strange to me. We know what happens at the end of the raid. The Sunwell is briefly corrupted then cleansed. It could have stayed corrupted the entire expansion. The problem is entirely solved by the end of the expansion's launch campaign. It's just "great job team, expansion over."

[huth]

Reminder that the beginning of the expac isn't even the Void's true invasion. Xal'atath mentions the Void's true invasion happening later on, and that the mortals would see it coming.

Pretty sure it has to do with them using the Darkwell to enter Azeroth from within. Makes me wonder if the Light's gonna use more than just the Vanguard at the Worldcore as well

Well, it is called the Vanguard. That kinda suggests it isn't the main force.

[Alustrael]

Okay, but the point is still there: The sunwell is a lot less potent than the nightwell because while the sunwell was just one leyline while the Nightwell was a convergence of leylines. Unlike the Nightwell & Well of Eternity: The Sunwell is less powerful. The Sunwell doesn't let its users live for 10,000 years, and the Sunwell has less of a connection to Azeroth & the Worldsoul.

There is no indication that the Sunwell is less potent than the Nightwell, on contrary, there is indication that it holds power comparable to the Nightwell, given that the First Arcanist Thalyssra says this when she enters at the Sunwell's chamber: The sense of power is palpable. As potent as the Nightwell, but of a different nature.

Considering this, given that they are the words of Thalyssra, one can argue that the amount of power that both founts of magic holds is similar and the only diference between them is that one is purely arcane while the other is a mix of arcane and Light.

The Sunwell was created atop a powerful nexus of ley-lines by the Highborne who founded Quel'Thalas, this is a fact that has survived all the lore of WoW despite of its countless retcons and such information was even reinforced by Chronicles.

About the Sunwell being capable or not to let the elves connected to it live for thousands of years, we already have information that the Sunwell provides something akin to immortality, which could mean that as long as an elf is capable to feed from its magic, he/she will have increased lifespan.

If the whole point of this is to see which fount of power has the upper hand, I can hardly see why the Sunwell would be less powerful than the Nightwell.

There are hints during the nightborne campaign that the Nightwell was overloaded to the point that the loyalists of Elisande had to borrow arcane power from the ley-lines to seal the underground entrance to the Nighthold with a barrier.

The Nightwell is more an artificial source of arcane power created by the nightborne and it worked differently from the Well of Eternity.

The original Well of Eternity could be used by all elves even when they were far from it and there is a moment during the War of the Ancients that the Highborne living at the palace of Zin-Azshari used something to restrict access to the power of the Well of Eternity only to those that were in the palace itself, which at the time, rendered all mages far from it powerless.

The Sunwell has already been stated that its power can reach any blood elf/high elf even when they are far from it, proof of it stands at the short history where a high elf priestess (Aurora Skycaller) tapped into the Sunwell's power when she was at Quel'Lithien Lodge.

Now consider the distance between the Isle of Quel'Danas, where the Sunwell stands and the lodge, which is beyond the borders of Quel'Thalas.

If the nightborne could tap into the Nightwell's power to feed from it much like the blood elves and high elves do with the Sunwell, then, they wouldn't whiter away while standing only a few meters from it.

As it stands, both has equal raw power but only one can be used from afar, which points at an advantage for the Sunwell.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

But that is what seems strange to me. We know what happens at the end of the raid. The Sunwell is briefly corrupted then cleansed. It could have stayed corrupted the entire expansion. The problem is entirely solved by the end of the expansion's launch campaign. It's just "great job team, expansion over."

What Joshuaj seems to imply and what remains possible is that some form of Light versus Shadow clash occurs in 12.2. If you rewatch Metzens words they kind of either have to outline that Quel'danas was the clash and the Shadow won overwhelmingly even if again people point out the "Vanguard" discrepency or that the actual clash is later in the Midnight expansion.

Of course, none of this is built up or structured in a way to take advantage and create actual a feeling of anything because again X.1 being a pivot patch is fucking ridiculously stupid just so the Warcraft Team can do their passion project instead of finding a better structure for it.

Although with Septembers' Blizzcon and how they can frame 12.2 -> TLT it remains possible they do the big final clash in the Manifold / Worldcore area with Large Scale Light presence and Shadow on top of Xal'ataths final claiming of her prize.

[Cheezits]

The Sunwell is briefly corrupted then cleansed. It could have stayed corrupted the entire expansion.

I genuinely don't think this would be engaging, nor can I think of a WoW expansion where something like that took more than one-two patches.

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Of course, none of this is built up or structured in a way to take advantage and create actual a feeling of anything because again X.1 being a pivot patch is fucking ridiculously stupid just so the Warcraft Team can do their passion project instead of finding a better structure for it.

If Ula'tek has nothing to do with Xal, then I think whatever the megadungeon is will be tied to the main story ala Dawn of the Infinite vs Aberrus. If the idea is the Vanguard needs to be built back up, then Lordaeron/Stratholme/Sacred Flame fits the bill.

[Joshuaj]

Well, it is called the Vanguard. That kinda suggests it isn't the main force.

I can't wait to see the main forces of the Light ngl. Makes me wonder if Midnight and TLT are purposefully setting up a Light-based expac, with Avaloren as the main area.

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I will admit, knowing the Lightbound likely won't be a threat for a while (if at all tbh...) kinda upsets me. I would love to see a holy-based Shattrath and whatnot.

[SaintBigfoot]

I can't wait to see the main forces of the Light ngl. Makes me wonder if Midnight and TLT are purposefully setting up a Light-based expac, with Avaloren as the main area.

I want Avaloren to be a continent so bad, not just a patch zone, all the lore they’ve been seeding through the past several expansions has caught my attention.

Also if we get the full extrasolar Army of the Light again, *please* add more members than just Draenei. The Naaru had to be active on places other than Argus and Azeroth

[Ersula]

As it stands, both has equal raw power but only one can be used from afar, which points at an advantage for the Sunwell.

I'm just saying I think the one that lets you live 10,000+ years rather than a piddling 1000 should be considered more powerful. Advantage: Nightwell.

[Joshuaj]

I want Avaloren to be a continent so bad, not just a patch zone, all the lore they’ve been seeding through the past several expansions has caught my attention.

Also if we get the full extrasolar Army of the Light again, *please* add more members than just Draenei. The Naaru had to be active on places other than Argus and Azeroth

I'm hoping Avaloren is an expac continent as well tbh, and ngl, everything points to that being the case. It's very clearly being set up throughout the Worldsoul Saga, and Blizzard did say they had plans for WoW leading up to at least 17.0 atm.

So it makes me wonder if all the Life focus, all the Arathi focus, and the occasional Demon focus is meant to culminate for the next saga.

[Ersula]

I genuinely don't think this would be engaging, nor can I think of a WoW expansion where something like that took more than one-two patches.

My theory is that Xal is going to become one with the worldsoul by the end of the expansion & take control of all the Titan Facilities in TLT - but if the sunwell was corrupted longer we could have had cool void invasion zone events over the course of Midnight.... honestly they could have done that just from the voidstorm. Super weird they're not doing that & everything was resolved so quickly. It feels like Renilash is over already.

[milkmustache]

I will admit, knowing the Lightbound likely won't be a threat for a while (if at all tbh...) kinda upsets me. I would love to see a holy-based Shattrath and whatnot.

Well I mean... do we know that? You had just said we may not have even seen the Light's full forces, I wouldn't be surprised to see them come in.

Like my Ethereal delusions, I'm still holding on to the notion that Beledar is a Naaru ship. I'll take the egg on my face later this year when that's inevitably debunked, but it'd still be a really fun way to close that thread.

With that in thought, Exarch Hellscream could be a really nice opportunity to bring in a new orc character. Even though he's not Garrosh, it'd still be fun to play a spin on Garrosh as a paladin, but still a conqueror.

I want Avaloren to be a continent so bad, not just a patch zone, all the lore they’ve been seeding through the past several expansions has caught my attention.

Also if we get the full extrasolar Army of the Light again, *please* add more members than just Draenei. The Naaru had to be active on places other than Argus and Azeroth

Avaloren as a continent has such incredible potential. Agreed re; Army of the Light. Lothraxxion is a really cool character, and I'm disappointed with his story in Midnight. Would love to see more like him, or a few scattered random NPCs.

It could actually be a really nice way to tie in some of the referenced worlds from Shadowlands, especially the ones in which people were Night Warriors (Khaliiq, Thiernax and the Stonewright). Thiernax in particular, as his status as a Night Warrior was allegedly in direct opposition to an Old God.

[Khaza-R]

Quite honestly I hope we don't see any more mono-cosmic force themed expansions after the saga. If Midnight is their best showing of a Void expansion then I shutter to think what the other remaining skittle flavors would look like.

[Joshuaj]

Quite honestly I hope we don't see any more mono-cosmic force themed expansions after the saga. If Midnight is their best showing of a Void expansion then I shutter to think what the other remaining skittle flavors would look like.

I mean, if nothing else, they heavily implied Demon stuff, Life stuff, and Light stuff in the future. And so far, we've only really been given Death, Void, and Order based expacs (SL, MN, and TLT). Legion ig can be Disorder based, but Sargeras was the head figure for it, so there was still some Order influence there. Would Legion count as the Disorder expac to y'all? Cause idk

[Alustrael]

I'm just saying I think the one that lets you live 10,000+ years rather than a piddling 1000 should be considered more powerful. Advantage: Nightwell.

To "bask" in the long lifespan that the Nightwell provides one has to drink arcwine, which renders someone physically dependent of it to the point that no normal food or water, not even alternative sources of arcane power can solve, save for the Arcan'dor.

And to become dependent of the Nightwell's energies is to be at the mercy of the ruler of Suramar, which means that at the moment that an elf is seen as a troublesome, he/she may be denied access to any arcwine supply or worst, exiled from the city and forced to wander untill all that remains is a husk of what one used to be.

See Runas the Shamed for the fate that befell upon not only, but many nightborne.

No extended amount of life can truly be worth if one has to live shackled by the fear of such fate.

As it stands, blood elves and high elves can live up for thousands of years and some of them has lived for more time than the whole history of Quel'Thalas itself, see Lorash, which means that the longevity that the Sunwell provides is remarkable and one can't simple come to say that "it only provides 1000 years" because we have no clear information of what is truly the normal lifespan of an elf and how much it is increased by being tied to a fount of power, therefore, we cannot say numbers when we have been given none.

The Sunwell isn't safe, it's quite the opposite, because given that its tied to all blood elves and high elves no matter how far they are from it, it means that a high elf could be at Stormwind while something corrupted the Sunwell and depending of the corruption, the elf would still feel its corruption coming for him/her.

One of the main reasons why Kael'thas decided to destroy the Sunwell after it was corrupted by the necromantic ritual performed by Arthas to revive Kel'Thuzad.

I guess that Kael'thas didn't had at the time a vial of moonwell, a fruit of Arcan'dor, a crown and a void crystal to cleanse it.

See how the Sunwell is currently affecting Eversong Woods just by existing as a source of arcane and Light, also one of the reasons why suddenly many blood elves gained golden eyes, they can't choose if they are going to be affected by the Sunwell, being directly tied to it means to share its fate.

The difference is that the Sunwell can simple be destroyed and all blood elves and high elves will now feel hunger for the arcane, but will not degenerate into mindless beings and all events from Warcraft III and TBC points at the blood elves and high elves fairly finding ways to live without the Sunwell.

If there was no Arcan'dor, the destruction of the Nightwell would meant a city full of whitered, sure, living for thousands of years, but would any of them truly be aware that they were alive at this point? No, even though quests during the nightborne campaing show that the whitered holds some memories of their lives.

[Hitei]

The line you have a problem with is literally the first sentence on the Nightwell's wowpedia wiki..

I don't have a problem with the line, I'm trying to point out to you that the Sunwell is ALSO "a nexus". The Sunwell is a convergence of leylines, exactly like the Nightwell.

[Cheezits]

I like how Xal's invasion is a tactical, surgical invasion, but I'm aware it falls short of the Purple Legion (expansion not the demons) that was expected.

It's smart writing, but is it a good videogame?

[Makorus]

What Joshuaj seems to imply and what remains possible is that some form of Light versus Shadow clash occurs in 12.2. If you rewatch Metzens words they kind of either have to outline that Quel'danas was the clash and the Shadow won overwhelmingly even if again people point out the "Vanguard" discrepency or that the actual clash is later in the Midnight expansion.

Of course, none of this is built up or structured in a way to take advantage and create actual a feeling of anything because again X.1 being a pivot patch is fucking ridiculously stupid just so the Warcraft Team can do their passion project instead of finding a better structure for it.

Although with Septembers' Blizzcon and how they can frame 12.2 -> TLT it remains possible they do the big final clash in the Manifold / Worldcore area with Large Scale Light presence and Shadow on top of Xal'ataths final claiming of her prize.

I love when people draw conclusions based on absolutely nothing lmao.

The forced negativity in this thread is ridiculous.

[Cheezits]

I love when people draw conclusions based on absolutely nothing lmao.

The forced negativity in this thread is ridiculous.

I have to agree that complaining about Atal'Utek being unrelated narratively is silly when we have zero context for it and there is nothing else built up besides the Worldcore which would effectively end the expansion in 12.1.