Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Hitei]

I'm saying look at the main story. The meta narrative, or what have you. The MAIN thing going on in Battle for Azeroth is that Sylvanas Windrunner started a world war, seeking to harvest souls for the Jailer. Everything else is just fun fluff, or bread crumbs for future stories. The expansion begins with Sylvanas launching her war, and it ends with her completing her job and returning to the Jailer.

No, it really isn't.

Sylvanas starting a war is 5 minutes in the pre-expansion quests and then she fucks off for literally 99% of the entire expansion, breifly shows up to push the Azshara storyline along, and shows back up at the end to get kicked out. Sylvanas' entire scheme re: the Jailer isn't even in BfA. Even in the short story do you know what her motivation is? (Don't worry, I know you haven't bother to read it) Converting everyone over to undeath, securing more "arrows" to stave herself off from fate.

Do you know where that storyline is from? It's not Wrath, the expansion where her goal is to kill Arthas and then herself and her involvement is tertiary. It's from Cataclysm, the expansion where she decides that she's not going down without a fight and that Forsaken are a precious resource that can exist eternally, where the greatest punishment that can be bestowed upon anyone is true death and that undeath is something that should be distributed widely.

Even the Sylvanas part of BfA is more of a sequel to Sylvanas' Cataclysm storyline than anything in Wrath.

This is you insisting that Return of the King isn't a sequel to Two Towers and Fellowship, it's a direct sequel to the Hobbit, because "look, Gollum is in the Hobbit!" nevermind that the other 99% of the story is continuing on from the other two LotR books, and nevermind that Gollum's own story in RotK is a direct continuation of his depiction and arcs in the LotR, not his brief appearance in the Hobbit playing riddle games.

You're unironically so far gone you're insisting that N'zoth's entire initial setup in Cataclysm, the expansion that cemented his existence, his role with the Naga and Deathwing, and his capacity as the 'last' Old God still lurking in the depths waiting for a chance, the expansion that established Ny'alotha even being a thing. Is just a totally wacky coincidence cause "there's Old Gods themes all the time!" Like Jesus; at some point you have to recognize your theory is completely shot to shit and cut your losses.

[Varodoc]

I can't wait for N'Zoth/Xal'atath to return and usher in the Void/Old God-centred expansion.

None of that "but wait actually it was 50/50 faction war..." BS that polluted Cataclysm and BfA.

[Catastrophy349]

What kind of "Void" expansion do you want, though? Another dimension? War-torn Azeroth/Revamp? Other-side of Azeroth with Void? Something else?

[Varodoc]

What kind of "Void" expansion do you want, though? Another dimension? War-torn Azeroth/Revamp? Other-side of Azeroth with Void? Something else?

Anything with the Old Gods will suffice.

All the speculation leading up to N'Zoth's release in 8.2 has already proven amply that the vast majority of fans love the Old Gods, their mystery, and their plans.

Five lines of dialogue from N'Zoth in a quest from DF has made Reddit and the official forums more excited than the Jailer did in 2 years.

[Cheezits]

What kind of "Void" expansion do you want, though? Another dimension? War-torn Azeroth/Revamp? Other-side of Azeroth with Void? Something else?

An actual void kingdom with sentient races we work with, for whatever reason, would be fun.

[Varodoc]

I agree!

Based on the precedent set in Legion and Shadowlands, it's likely that the Void theme will be central and predominant in the expansion. That said, both Legion and Shadowlands did contain some other things as well. There's room for nuance, as it were.

Legion had the Emerald Nightmare, beautiful zones like Highmountain and Val'sharah, and lots more.

Shadowlands had Ardenweald (who would've expected that place in the land of the dead?) and quite a lot of Cycle of Life and Death content. Wild Gods. The Odyn-like Kyrians. Not to mention a Dracula-themed gothic castle.

So even if 11.0 is Void first and foremost, I could see it being set in a beautiful environment and come with its own set of B-plots.

"B-plot" is what the Old God/Void storyline ends up being in many expansions where it is featured. In WotLK, WoD, MoP, and Legion, it most certainly ended up being just a B-plot. Except that, unlike many other B-plots of those expansions (like the Nexus War in WotLK, mogu in MoP, or drogbar in Legion), it did not even have its own zones. It was only in Legion that we finally saw a fully Void-themed zone in Eredath.

And while the Old Gods were the "main threat" to Azeroth in Cataclysm and BfA, both times they ended up having to share the spotlight with the faction war. In Cataclysm, most of the revamped questing zones were about regional conflicts like Stormwind vs Defias or the faction war started by Garrosh. On top of this, Cataclysm was always advertised as an expansion partly about faction war, with the cinematic trailer even mentioning how a new war started. In BfA, the faction war took up even more resources and time from the writers, with the expansion's advertisement being all about the faction war. How many trailers and panels leading up to the expansion featured the Old Gods? People were joking back then about BfA "totally not being an Old God expansion" and posting some random screenshots with tentacles in Nazmir, but that is exactly what it ended up being. It's very hard to call BfA an "Old God expansion" when the vast majority of the advertisement, promotional material, cinematics, and novels were focused on the faction war.

But now that even the villains of Death are dealt with, Blizzard has no other choice but to bring back the Old Gods and the other Void villains, like Xal'atath, Azshara, and Murozond. Blizzard knows that these villains are beloved and they are also running out of options of named villains before they have to resort to asspulling villains out of nowhere again (which is hit or miss, as seen with the Primal Incarnates and the Jailer respectively).

There's some talk online about an "Elemental-focused expansion", but that can be incorporated into an Old God expansion. After all, the Elemental Lords were slaves of the Old Gods' Black Empire, with Ragnaros and Al'akir even returning to N'Zoth's service in Cataclysm.

We still do not have an expansion where the Old Gods and their invasion are the undisputed, uncontested, and undeniable main plotline of the expansion. Unlike the Legion and the Scourge, who were clearly the main plotline of Legion and WotLK respectively, the Old Gods always have to share the spotlight with faction war when they make their move.

It is clear what Blizzard is pulling. It was clear ever since Danuser stated that N'Zoth's whole deal was about visions in an interview from Shadowlands' release, and it was confirmed in DF when N'Zoth, who sees all potential futures, saw the players in the Past. The build-up continues with Iridrikon making a deal with the Void in the same vein Neltharion did with N'Zoth. The path is paved for a fully Old God-expansion, without the faction war polluting it (as the factions are now ruled by peacemongers).

[Hitei]

I recommend that you level an alt in Battle for Azeroth and experience the story for the first time. Once you've done that, come back to me and we'll talk.

I recommend you formulate even a basic grasp of Sylvanas' general narrative before you lecture anyone about story.

You're trying to suggest that "a-ha! there are things going on with the story in every expansion, so your theory is wrong because Sylvanas once did an important thing in expansion X," when in fact I'm not even arguing against that. I am fully with you in the sense that no expansion is just about one thing, or that stories concerning that main story can only develop in those particular expansions.

No, I am pointing out to you that your theory is objectively incorrect. This is a really sad attempt at deflection, no one is disputing that BfA leads into SL. That isn't your theory though, let's not just be disgustingly dishonest for the sake of trying to squirm away and pretend something full of holes still holds water. Your theory is that there's an arbitrarily chosen set of """"trilogies"""", including Wrath, BfA and Shadowlands, That can reliably indicate 11.0. Except that BfA had pretty much nothing to do with Wrath; BfA doesn't just coincidentally share some themes with Cataclysm like you keep trying to pretend. It's not just that the Old Gods show up all wacky out of nowhere and the two expansions just happen to have them. Azshara and N'zoth's storyline is a direct pull from Cata. Magni is a direct pull from Cata. Sylvanas is a direct pull from Cata (not Wrath, where her storyline ends, Cata, where a brand new storyline begins). Nathanos abandoning his home and moving front and center with the Dark Rangers being a vanguard assaulting foreign lands is from Cata, the Zandalari and Zul's plight is from Cata, the Dark Irons, Genn, Malfurion's return to protector of the Darnassian people, Gallywix, Lillian Voss. Nearly every storybeat in BfA is a continuation from Cata and Wrath "has Sylvanas in it".

But, what we can say with a 100% certainty, because it's literally right there in the story, is that WoD ends with the Burning Legion being back on the menu for Legion. Equally, we can say with the same amount of certainty that BfA does the same for Shadowlands.

And Legion put faction war on the menu for BfA, and SL put cosmic powers on the menu for DF. The entire problem here is that your theory actively rejects the simple fact that every expansion since Cata has set up the next expansion in favor of pretending that expansions skip around in some highly specific pattern. 11.0 isn't going to be Void stuff because Cata had tangentially related enemies. It's going to be Void stuff because Legion, BfA and SL set up the Void as one of the three standing cosmic forces that haven't been addressed and BfA narratively prepared Azshara and Xal'atath as Void threats divorced from Old Gods, who have had their story hardline concluded by the removal of Ny'alotha and ostensible destruction of the last remaining physical Old God on the planet.

Just like 11.0 isn't going to be about elements because Cata was and there's some magic pattern where every old expansion is divided neatly in two. DF was already the elemental expansion, it's not setting another one up, it started off with that, much like WoD started off with the Iron Horde and BfA started off with the faction war. They didn't make elements every part of the professions and the enemies and the raid tier sets because they were going to do an elemental expansion in 11.0.

[Santandame]

You accused me of having an out-of-pocket opinion; a "wild take." It wasn't a wild take: It was a take a lot of people expressed & I had receipts.

Be careful to keep the personal attack to a minimum & only post when you have something to contribute to the discussion or you might be reported for spam.

Boreal Tundra is a TUNDRA. The hint is in the name. Much of it is covered in snow. It has arctic style geography. It has several farms, orcish strongholds, an alliance keep, ziggurats and a scourge presence, and a mechagnome airport. In what way is it similar to the Waking Shores which seems to be a tropical jungle for the most part with a volcanic area to the west? With the only signs of civilisation being the dragons and the djaradin.

Sholazar Basin is a rainforest. That’s literally what it is. On what planet is a rainforest pretty much the same as a Great Plains inspired area seen with the Ohnaran Plains? Is Sholazar the the same as Mulgore too?

Dragonblight is a frozen wasteland. Thaldraszuz is literally a heavily forested mountain/crag region with lots of magic, enchantments and heavy focus on Titan architecture.

I will happily take the report that will come with this that you very pathetically are threatening me with. What have you been smoking to think those zones are similar? It is honestly the most wild of takes I’ve ever seen on this forum.

You are a clown.

[Hitei]

I mean, I would act surprised at your seeming inability (or unwillingness) to grasp the theory I'm plainly laying out before you... but then I remember that you're Hitei the Contrarian. You and I will never agree on anything, because you've made up your mind in advance to never agree on anything. Even when it means you have to twist yourself into a knot just to make your own (and incorrect) interpretation of unfolding events work.

You can keep attempting this deflection too, but at this point it's sort of just embarrassing you don't understand what contrarian means.

I'm presenting a very simple concept for you, and it is very simple to grasp and validate...

BfA is an expansion about many things. There are several stories going on. Its primary focus is to send Sylvanas all over Azeroth in order to collect souls for the Maw, and enable a future story about the Lich King and the Scourge. Shadowlands concludes that story with a bang.

I can grasp that you've never actually read a quest in your life but I'm not gonna validate you not understanding what an expansion is about. Just like I'm not gonna validate you pretending your theory was only ever "expansions lead into the next expansion!" when you've posted:

The cosmic expansions:

The Burning Crusade
Warlords of Draenor
Legion

Wrath of the Lich King
Battle for Azeroth
Shadowlands

Cataclysm
Dragonflight
11.0 - Final confrontation with the Void, large focus on Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms!

The adventurous expansions:

World of Warcraft (Vanilla)
Mists of Pandaria
12.0 - Enter the dawn of the next era for WoW with an adventure to the far side of the world, traveller!

Perhaps I should have said "the cosmic trilogies", because that would be more accurate. Not each expansion is cosmic-focused. But the overarching story it is a part of has a cosmic theme.

TBC -> WoD -> Legion is Disorder (Fel magic). The ultimate threat is the Burning Legion, commanded initially by Archimonde and Kil'jaeden but finally by Sargeras.

WotLK -> BfA -> Shadowlands is Death (Necromantic magic). The ultimate threat is the Scourge, commanded by the Lich King but finally by the Jailer.

Cataclysm -> Dragonflight -> 11.0 is Shadow (Void magic). The ultimate threat is the Hour of Twilight prophecy and its adherents such at the Twlight's Hammer and (indirectly) the Primalists, commanded by the Old Gods but finally by whomever ends up being the bid bad. Xal'atath?

The first expansion in each trilogy just picked up where that theme left off in Warcraft 3, and went big with it. Then once they had done those, they picked each thread up again after MoP, with a set of two expansions for each cosmic force.

twice in the past ten posts.

Watch as 11.0 comes and goes, how the Void and stories about the Old Gods and their minions will suddenly become way less relevant.

Man are you gonna be in for a shock when you get around to watching a summary video on BfA and find out that the Old gods and their minions were already made irrelevant.

[Chickat]

Domsaying.
Expansions have been cut short before, and some people feel that it's going to happen again this expansion. I would assume because that would make it very easy for Blizzard to have a 9 month break in DF content to let the developers work fully on 11.0.

Personally I think it's unlikely. Dragonflight is predicated entirely on the idea that Blizzard wants to regain trust, and I don't think they would dare gamble on player goodwill by willingly cutting a patch. Even by the logic that WoD was cut down to really focus on Legion I can't see it. 11.0 would have to be the most trascendentally great expansion to rid the developers of what would by that point be a permanent stain on content cycles.

From a storytlling perspective it would be really weird as well. All signs point to 10.2 being the dream. And unless the Dream is heavily focused on the Titan keepers there simply isntenough time to end all the main plotlines currently present in Dragonflight. The next expansion dragging the story of DF alongside it would be even worse. It would just make 11.0 feel like an extended 10.3 patch, much in the same way much of Shadowlands felt like an extended BfA patch.

Honestly they could do 11.0 in March/April 2025 and have a full incredible patch cycle all the way to 10.3.9 with the .9 being the fated patch 3-4 months before 11.0.

Idc either way as long as 11.0 is good and we dont have to wait more than 7 or 8 months with 0 content.

[Catastrophy349]

I'm curious if Blizzard will be able to "contain themselves" from "leaking" 11.0 prior to Blizzcon. With Shadowlands, we had the Bolvar/Shadowlands shirt in the Blizzard Store about a week or so before Blizzcon 2019. For Dragonflight, the name got "leaked" AND we saw artwork for Alexstrasza prior to the April 19th, 2022 expansion announcement.

https://www.wowhead.com/news/world-o...website-326583 APRIL 2nd, 17 days BEFORE the announcement.

[Darkarath]

I'm curious if Blizzard will be able to "contain themselves" from "leaking" 11.0 prior to Blizzcon. With Shadowlands, we had the Bolvar/Shadowlands shirt in the Blizzard Store about a week or so before Blizzcon 2019. For Dragonflight, the name got "leaked" AND we saw artwork for Alexstrasza prior to the April 19th, 2022 expansion announcement.

https://www.wowhead.com/news/world-o...website-326583 APRIL 2nd, 17 days BEFORE the announcement.

It will get leaked in one way or another for sure. October will be a crazy month in MMOChampion.

What I really want right now are some 10.2 leaks... I could make a really big list of all the stuff that this patch might include, but I think that I will wait until monday, when I expect to have a confirmation of the day of the info dump.

[Catastrophy349]

I'm ready to go through the Dark Portal 3.0!

[Well Done Steak]

I'm betting all the bronze time shenanigans will pull yrel to our timeline.

I'm also betting that her lightbound and the remnants of the scarlet crusade will join forces, given the two are fanatical light zealots.

11.0 will take place in Karesh

[Katalyna]

It will get leaked in one way or another for sure. October will be a crazy month in MMOChampion.

What I really want right now are some 10.2 leaks... I could make a really big list of all the stuff that this patch might include, but I think that I will wait until monday, when I expect to have a confirmation of the day of the info dump.

I for one am excited about Fake Patch/Speculation Season. I'm very disappointed we haven't had any new good fanfics in the past day or so to read, lol

[Chickat]

I can see 10.3 happening, if it does not come with a new 8+ boss raid.

There's no way they'll release a big raid so close to Fated Season and delay 11.0.

Personally, I think no 10.3 and 11.0 launch in September/October 2024 is the best outcome. I'm so sick of Retail releases so close to holidays...

Theres also the possibility that 10.2.5 or 10.2.7 is the last major patch with 11.0 launching in August going back to summer releases.

November 10.2
Jan 10.2.5
March 10.2.7
May 10.2.9 fated patch with a small world content refresh this time.
August 11.0

[Catastrophy349]

All I care about is a fulfilling narrative. If that can happen with a Summer/Fall 11.0 release, I don’t really care which happens. If they can make the story of 10.2, 10.2.5, and let’s say 10.2.7 feel like “enough” to pull us toward a summer 11.0, fantastic. However, if a “10.3” needs to happen, then a later (Fall) 2024, I’m all for that, too.

[Luck4]

I think thats DFs one of the weakest points of DF is the lack of the two factions.

I mean in SL it made sense for them to take a break from factions, but TWO expansions, especially after a timeskip, without factions makes me think that they want to use EK/Kalimdor questing to flesh out what the factions are like now. Four years without factions is a bit much.

Not only factions, this goes for playable races representation as well. Back in Legion, for instance, when the factions lose at Broken Shore, we still saw Human/Forsaken in Stormheim, Night Elves in Val'sharah, Kirin Tor/High Elves/Blood Elves in Suramar, and Draenei in the Argus assault.

And this goes for every expansion until Shadowlands/Dragonflight.

I really don't understand why this is happening now...

- - - Updated - - -

I hope we'll see faction/playable race representation in the 11.0 reveal, regardless of the story, theme, or setting.

[Mecheon]

I really don't understand why this is happening now...

Course correction from BfA

Or them really wanting to push cross faction raids

[Ersula]

You are a clown.

Send your complaints to Taliesin, Evitel, Bellular, mrMG and Azmongold because they all made the same comparisons when DF was revealed. You're getting so bent out of shape just because I said "DF gives Northrend vibes"

I mean, I would act surprised at your seeming inability (or unwillingness) to grasp the theory I'm plainly laying out before you... but then I remember that you're Hitei the Contrarian. You and I will never agree on anything, because you've made up your mind in advance to never agree on anything. Even when it means you have to twist yourself into a knot just to make your own (and incorrect) interpretation of unfolding events work.

You keep doing this thing where, despite that the person you replied to clearly understood what you wrote & has valid contradictions to it, you refuse to engage with those points & instead insult their intelligence. You can't just list all the things that back up your theory & ignore all the things that contradict it. Those contradictions matter: The biggest one I see is you're attributing BFA to "death" instead of "old gods" despite the big bad being an old god. You're not the first person to make this theory but he conveyed it with more brevity. Your theory is worthless if an entire expansion can be about fighting N'zoth but that's "irrelevant" because it was actually part of the "Death." You're just saying anything that doesn't fit into your narrow justification "doesn't count."