Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Cheezits]

I'm worried about pacing myself especially after Dev statements that Midnight wouldn't have Old Gods involved and focus on the Space side of the Void. It's entirely possible that we just deal with Trolls and Trolls eating wild gods drama after Xal'atath gets slurped which feels unimportant when the end of the world is on the line.

It's because having Xal win at launch means grind to her ends the expansion. They should've done Launch - Light patch to strengthen the Light - End Xal but decided to do trolls as either the only mid patch or the first of two. We have yet to know why but I think most likely is because Amani will be playable and / or the patch will include all Trolls in the Horde as a big fanservice patch.

But the four glad mounts still point to four potential seasons and three potential new zones, though I think the Worldcore may not be a zone and just a raid.

- - - Updated - - -

Northrend doesn't really have much going on at all. Every relevant threat or narrative beat was already dealt with. The Titans and Titanforged will subplant the Scourge as primary threat and everything else (Scarlets, Vrykul, Living Nerubians, Drakkari) doesn't warrant a patch because we're talking about groups that are barely clinging to life and struggle to fill out a launch zone let alone be big enough to warrant a whole patch.

Agreed. Northrend launch will be about ending the immediate Titanic threat, which I suspect will be Odyn or another antagonist character initiating some kind of world ending process because Azeroth was corrupted by Xal. The Northrend story will be about gathering forces still left there (Vrykul, Undead Nerubians, Tuskarr, Taunka, Wolvar etc) to stop this process- but the Titans will still come to do something bad to the organics in the name of preserving Azeroth.

This leads to Iridikron, and dealing with him, and then finding a way to deal with the Titans- which is probably the sword, so a return to Silithus, where the Aqir could appear. Either that's the finale or we go to where Titans come from and learn more about the Constellars.

[Khaza-R]

Northrend doesn't really have much going on at all. Every relevant threat or narrative beat was already dealt with. The Titans and Titanforged will subplant the Scourge as primary threat and everything else (Scarlets, Vrykul, Living Nerubians, Drakkari) doesn't warrant a patch because we're talking about groups that are barely clinging to life and struggle to fill out a launch zone let alone be big enough to warrant a whole patch.

I mean, there's Iridikron, Odyn, Eonar, Sargeras, and apparently An'she based off their communication. That's already enough to fill all the patch cycles. Without having any domestic threats. So no, I wouldn't say that's remotely accurate at all.

Also why would we even have a patch with Silithus and the sword? Its literally a featureless crater. The sword is just a massive plot device and nothing more.

[Cheezits]

I mean, there's Iridikron, Odyn, Eonar, Sargeras, and apparently An'she based off their communication. That's already enough to fill all the patch cycles. Without having any domestic threats. So no, I wouldn't say that's remotely accurate at all.

Also why would we even have a patch with Silithus and the sword? Its literally a featureless crater. The sword is just a massive plot device and nothing more.

Eonar and Sargeras patches are off the table ( Dream and Harandar, Argus plus TBC). Iridikron may get a patch or be a one boss story raid as we see they now like to do.

Northrend without the Scourge/LK sucks besides the Titan stuff as it has no significant remaining culture and life besides the Vrykul, so once that is dealt with I think they will leave ASAP. "Silithus patch" would probably be underground or a redone AQ imo.

[Khaza-R]

Eonar and Sargeras patches are off the table ( Dream and Harandar, Argus plus TBC). Iridikron may get a patch or be a one boss story raid as we see they now like to do.

Northrend without the Scourge/LK sucks besides the Titan stuff as it has no significant remaining culture and life besides the Vrykul, so once that is dealt with I think they will leave ASAP. "Silithus patch" would probably be underground or a redone AQ imo.

There's no basis for that.

Iridikron will obviously be the 13.0 main antagonist and then it will transition to the Titans being the villains. Which still only leaves two patches to deal with them and that's not a lot of space. While the sword could be the finale of the saga its still not going to be some AQ 2.0 patch as going from the Titans to a bunch of bugs as villains would be a massive downgrade in stakes.

[Hitei]

There's no basis for that.

Iridikron will obviously be the 13.0 main antagonist and then it will transition to the Titans being the villains. Which still only leaves two patches to deal with them and that's not a lot of space. While the sword could be the finale of the saga its still not going to be some AQ 2.0 patch as going from the Titans to a bunch of bugs as villains would be a massive downgrade in stakes.

Eonar and Sargeras are no more likely to have dedicated patches than Lor'themar or Sylvanas are. You are describing important characters involved in the main storyline, not patch content.

I do not think Silithus is likely, but Northrend has very little ongoing, it would not be a surprised if the midpatch were elsewhere and following something else.

[Khaza-R]

Eonar and Sargeras are no more likely to have dedicated patches than Lor'themar or Sylvanas are. You are describing important characters involved in the main storyline, not patch content.

I do not think Silithus is likely, but Northrend has very little ongoing, it would not be a surprised if the midpatch were elsewhere and following something else.

We aren't disagreeing at all then. My point wasn't the whole expansion has to take place in Northrend. Rather the Titan story is already heavily loaded to deviate to something else. I think its fully possible there might be patch zones not on Northrend. But is just won't be some weird Ahn'Qiraj redux patch

[LarryWithTheWeatherReport]

Eonar and Sargeras patches are off the table ( Dream and Harandar, Argus plus TBC). Iridikron may get a patch or be a one boss story raid as we see they now like to do.

Northrend without the Scourge/LK sucks besides the Titan stuff as it has no significant remaining culture and life besides the Vrykul, so once that is dealt with I think they will leave ASAP. "Silithus patch" would probably be underground or a redone AQ imo.

I think the Last Titan deserve to be a 3 major patch expansion. They could still have revamped Zul'Drakki and Gundrak. The Nerubians and Yogg Saron with his underground horror could still be interesting.

But yeah I want a full revamp Silithus with a massive Qiraji uprising and a big AQ questing revamp as well as a mega delve for it. Although the underground section of Northrend could work as a major delve too.

[GeometryWizard]

2 major patch stories have been the norm for a while now and they did it as well as they could all the way back in MoP seeing as 5.1 and 5.3 are way closer to modern minor patches than anything major. If they had stuck to the original plan Undermine probably would have been closer to Isle of Thunder in terms of plot relevance and harmony but instead it became an isolated dead plot thread that doesn't really relate much to the rest of the expansion story compared to Isle of Thunder being the intended conclusion of the mogu and direct focus on Pandaria's story before the last two patches have the faction war story take the reins

IMO there's a huge issue with discussion about almost everything right now where people just don't talk about execution at all and only focus solely on things existing at all. Like how we know they can do good 2 major patch stories because they've done so in the past but people act like it's impossible now when the problem is their execution. Or when people think literally the only thing critics want is action and point to Midnight's cinematic as having action = good so therefore nobody is allowed to criticize it instead of focusing on how confusing and unexciting the cinematography and storytelling is in Midnight's cinematic compared to WoD's or Bfa's. Like imagine if someone claimed the Red Dawn cutscene had action and therefore was peak Warcraft and exactly like WC3 when in reality it's the single biggest piece of negative advertising WoW had in 2025. Or like claiming the Amirdrassil Avengers cinematic is great because it has so many different characters when everyone rightfully calls it out as incredibly lame

For instance something 5.1 and 5.2 does much better than TWW is showing lots of different events happening in the world so you can see that lots of different parties are active and fulfilling their own agendas. Compare that to TWW where after the launch patch it's like almost every character just stops doing anything and might as well not exist except for Alleria. The fel troll island existing isn't a bad idea and of itself but if the plot basically stops dead in its tracks because they only write the Amani characters there then that's an execution problem. Of course they are already failing at this in Midnight as is by having the Arcantina show that the entire rest of the world doesn't care about or react to the supposed extremely dire void invasion of Quel'thalas. This is another failing of them making the playable factions irrelevant and instead hyperfocusing on a couple main characters for each expansion that usually ends with players hating most of them

Really that's the main story problem that the cozycore problem presents being just criticizing cozycore itself is that it makes it harder and harder to take the supposed gravitas and scope of your story seriously when you make an entire hub of like every named character that isn't a faction leader just chilling out and taking it easy. I think there's a non-zero chance under the current direction of Holly's leadership that the story basically stops after TLT and they do very loose 'stories' that are very easy to sell cosmetics and such that have no connection to Warcraft's artstyle and tone from. God forbid we start getting official crossover content beyond just other Blizzard game preorders and events because they desperately want WoW to be fantasy Fortnite

[ro9ue]

More troll areas = more troll cosmetics = win.

[Hitei]

For instance something 5.1 and 5.2 does much better than TWW is showing lots of different events happening in the world so you can see that lots of different parties are active and fulfilling their own agendas....

...Of course they are already failing at this in Midnight as is by having the Arcantina show that the entire rest of the world doesn't care about or react to the supposed extremely dire void invasion of Quel'thalas...

Really that's the main story problem that the cozycore problem presents being just criticizing cozycore itself is that it makes it harder and harder to take the supposed gravitas and scope of your story seriously when you make an entire hub of like every named character that isn't a faction leader just chilling out and taking it easy. I think there's a non-zero chance under the current direction of Holly's leadership that the story basically stops after TLT and they do very loose 'stories' that are very easy to sell cosmetics and such that have no connection to Warcraft's artstyle and tone from. God forbid we start getting official crossover content beyond just other Blizzard game preorders and events because they desperately want WoW to be fantasy Fortnite

Weird take to have in the same post where you praise 5.1 and 5.2, two patches that happened in an expansion where most of the continent's Pandaren were hanging out drinking tea and eating while "a totally big war", the largest mantid swarm in history, sha corruption and the re-emergence of the mogu were all happening. The same expansion that had grummles busy brewing coffee and trying to run yak washes 20 feet away from the supposed threat of Yaungol raiders and just down the road from sprites and virmen doing silly annoyances; and where Anduin being injured decided to go just hang out in a nice comfy inn and debate philosophy with Wrathion while the war was happening, Chen spent most of the expansion comparing notes about beer in farmville, and the august celestials sat around their temples doing nothing until the threat was at their door and then sat around the timeless isle why the Kor'kron strip mined the most sacred valley on the continent and released Y'shaarj's heart.

Like I'm not sure you could possibly pick a worse argument than "this really shows how these side characters don't care at all about the big threat" if your go-to for good action patches is fucking MoP, the expansion that could not go three quest hubs in a row without wild tonal swings and disjointed lack of care by any NPCs for what was happening one town over.

[Jaggler]

I lose respect for people who say that more troll content is bad.

[KyleEverett]

I'm excited for Troll Content, I'm concerned when it appears it will likely not be attached to the main "The World is gonna be eaten" plotline when we only have 3 acts in the expansion.

[Lady Atia]

I think the Last Titan deserve to be a 3 major patch expansion. They could still have revamped Zul'Drakki and Gundrak. The Nerubians and Yogg Saron with his underground horror could still be interesting.

But yeah I want a full revamp Silithus with a massive Qiraji uprising and a big AQ questing revamp as well as a mega delve for it. Although the underground section of Northrend could work as a major delve too.

AQ with an echo of C'thun (or his sha equivalents) would make a dope megadelve if they don't use it for one of the two side raids for TLT.

Buuuut than again, we prolly deal with Yoggs echoes aswell in TLT, so maybe they switch it up and do Silithus as the final zone of Midnight instead? With AQ as megadelve and the Coreway as raid?

[LarryWithTheWeatherReport]

AQ with an echo of C'thun (or his sha equivalents) would make a dope megadelve if they don't use it for one of the two side raids for TLT.

Buuuut than again, we prolly deal with Yoggs echoes aswell in TLT, so maybe they switch it up and do Silithus as the final zone of Midnight instead? With AQ as megadelve and the Coreway as raid?

That would be great too if we got Silithus as the final Midnight zone and AQ as the endgame Midnight megadelve plus Core Way.

Yogg Saron, Underground faceless horrors, Nerubians, the Titans, and Sargeras would take up The Last Titan so they could do Silithus in Midnight.

The Qiraji and Xal'atath would probably wanna draw power from the Sword into the Coreway for something and we stop her. And then much later in The Last Titan, Sargeras would finally lift the sword and destroy even more of the zone except for AQ so we'll experience AQ and revamped Silithus before it's destruction.

If we get a playable Qiraji race than I guess they could also make it so only the areas outside of AQ gets destroyed with AQ still being safe.

[Jaggler]

I'm excited for Troll Content, I'm concerned when it appears it will likely not be attached to the main "The World is gonna be eaten" plotline when we only have 3 acts in the expansion.

We have nothing to suggest whether 12.1. integrates well into Midnights story or not. People use Undermine as an example, but that was obviously the point where Original TWW pivoted into the WSS.

At this point that is just doomerism for doomerisms sake, but people on this forum for some reason just love being miserable.

[KyleEverett]

It's speculation which this thread is all about.

My speculation is based on them saying the Midnight plot doesn't feature Old Gods and the Black Blood and instead focus on the Space side of the Void. If that's the case then Ula'tek perhaps being part of Kithix means it's not really part of the main plot, add in the fact the 12.1.5 raid will exist to focus us back on the Midnight plot.

That points to a sidequest tier again.

[Lahis]

Old armour is just a texture outside of the helmet and shoulders. There's nothing to rig there in the first place. Maybe the early 3d pieces.

First 3D pieces on armor were belt buckles in MoP. Before that all armor was just textures on player model.

[whoisqnx]

I honestly dont believe for a second that we will fight Iridikron again. I am 100% he will be back and do something but he will do it in a way to not cross us. He never really cared about us or anyone other than his own revenge on the Titans. He simply commanded Fyrakk to burn everyone down that gets in his way, he knew he can use him.

Really curious what they do with Iridikron and Vyranoth in TLT once the Void is dealt with. Vyranoth was also on Iridikron's side before she had enough and started getting concerned about his alliance with Xal'atath so its gonna be interesting.

[Jaggler]

I honestly dont believe for a second that we will fight Iridikron again. I am 100% he will be back and do something but he will do it in a way to not cross us. He never really cared about us or anyone other than his own revenge on the Titans. He simply commanded Fyrakk to burn everyone down that gets in his way, he knew he can use him.

Really curious what they do with Iridikron and Vyranoth in TLT once the Void is dealt with. Vyranoth was also on Iridikron's side before she had enough and started getting concerned about his alliance with Xal'atath so its gonna be interesting.

tbh, if we go against the Titans he is a natural ally if he can overcome his hatred for the dragonflights, which should be possible, considering, they are new blessed by Azeroth, not the Titans.

[Hitei]

I lose respect for people who say that more troll content is bad.

Troll content was interesting 20 years ago. I don't need to see the nth iteration of "here are trolls, they have a very slightly different take on the pseudo-mesoamerican cultural aesthetic, and they worship a different group of animal Loa, and they do bad stuff with those Loa and/or some older evil they shouldn't be messing with!"

For all that people complain about humans, orcs and elves, at least those groups have different things going on. The trolls are seriously just copy pasted. "Oh here's this tribes group of animal Loa which has a lynx instead of a tiger or a panther. This tribe's pyramids are lined with gold, oh but this tribe's pyramids are instead lined with moss. This tribe is slightly more into dinosaurs than the other tribes who also use dinosaurs."

The Blood Trolls are the only remotely interesting thing Trolls have done in the past 10 expansions and even then they were still doing basically the same thing, they just had an actually unique visual style and type of magic.

We're already getting a whole zone for trolls at launch so it's hard to rationalize "but what if those same trolls went across a bridge and messed with some other bad stuff?!", like we're being telegraphed, as anything but a slog.