Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Dracullus]

Kinda wish that 12.0 would be troll raid and 12.1 - Voidstorm and dealing with Xalatath invasion. That light beam from Sunwell is more epic than felstorm view from Dalaran, will be waste to fix it first month of expac.

[huth]

The Fel and Disorder are not exactly one in the same. The Fel is simply the best magical representation of Disorder, but Disorder is a force. Typical shadow and Void magics can very much be linked with Disorder, especially if used by beings of Disorder, or are seen within the realm of Disorder.

Void is the force. Void magics are Void, not Disorder. Shadow is possible though. But outside of the elementals, beings of a force can generally still learn to wield the others, even diametrically opposed ones (e.g. Sargeras).

[Joshuaj]

Void is the force. Void magics are Void, not Disorder. Shadow is possible though. But outside of the elementals, beings of a force can generally still learn to wield the others, even diametrically opposed ones (e.g. Sargeras).

Shadow is the name of the force. Void and shadow are the two magical representations of it, but both can and have been linked to Disorder before. I generalize the magical types of a certain power unless it's used by beings of another force entirely, or if used for another purpose entirely.

For example, while Void and shadow are the magical representations of Shadow, if the Demons utilize those magics and use them to spread the influence of Disorder, then I deem them as Disorder magics, due to their link to that force.

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You're right about beings utilizing rivaling magics, though.

[Thomir]

Interesting. Apparently Ma'nari are considered Void users by this quest.



(I am a shaman so this dialogue was prompted by the Ma'nari customization, checked it without it and the option disappeared.)

It would've been cool if he actually had unique dialogue for the Ma'nari considering he's been fighting them for millenia and could possibly even know your player character as an enemy.

[Boomer Thor]

Feel like I burnt out faster than anticipated

[Auxis]

Light is definitely not innovation. It's far to one-track for that. I don't think that's even associated with any force in particular, although Order has the most prominent representative of it.

Outside of Light and Void they basically just represent the very thing they are named for, although both literally and metaphorically, and all 6 represent both the good and bad aspects of their focus.

Wasn't there a world consumed by Light in 1000 Years of War that was just in pure stasis as a result of Light dominating it? Mountains of crystals filled with people both unloving and undying.

That sounds like the opposite of ignition.

Remember that one Oracle in Zereth Mortis?
- Her dreams sing beneath the surface. Quiet now, but her voice will awaken the others.
- Mortis. Lumen. Ordus. Rhythm and structure.
- Six voices in discord. Without harmony, the anthem will be ended.
- Vitae. Umbra. Tumult. Improvisation and possibility.

Bolded are relevant to the conversation, while the italics seem interesting in general.

Basically, Light - Order - Death are implied to be structured and having rhythm, while Disorder - Life - Void are evolving, changing, adapting.

If there is no balance in reality and it leans towards, say, Life: there will be abundant growth that will literally consume worlds but will probably eventually burn out and use up all energy/spirit because its unchecked by the other forces. Same goes for Light, world will be luminous but choked into uniformity and stasis.

Both of these things we saw happen to Draenor. The Sporemounds were dominating the planet and required Aggramars intervention to save it. And in the Maghar recruitment story, Draenor was on its last legs. Life was physically coming to a standstill since the Legion was fought back and the naaru/draenei started spreading the teachings of the light.

Decades later, the planet's ecosystem (or at least Gorgrond's) began to desiccate. While only Gorgrond is seen, it is considerably less forested than it was before, the sky is clouded over, and there is a green tint in the air. The Lightbound accuse the Mag'har orcs of causing this, while the Mag'har, in turn, accuse the Lightbound of causing it.

[Super Dickmann]

Kinda wish that 12.0 would be troll raid and 12.1 - Voidstorm and dealing with Xalatath invasion. That light beam from Sunwell is more epic than felstorm view from Dalaran, will be waste to fix it first month of expac.

Yeah, it's a strong premise with the threat always kept in mind across levelling, but it's doomed to peter out very quickly. Sure, Xal is out there and the threat persists/is greater, but there's no direct threat or momentum of yet. Making Kith'ix/Ula'tek the first patch against the impersonal snake/old god general baddie in the sideplot and the second beat escalating with us fighting our corrupted allied characters, then progressing from there to the end boss is natural. It also means that the Rainbow Well business can be built up too instead of the entire Darkwell problem occurring and being resolved within a week.

[Darkarath]

WoW players do care about the story.

Some do, but I still believe that many players just skip any quest or cinematic.

And Bellular's channel with 660k subscribers is still going strong talking about the story.

Bellular talks of many things. I have been following his channel for years and just look at the views. They have plummeted. BTW it's not his fault. WoW is not that relevant anymore. I always wonder how streamers that exclusively focus on WoW survive.

The Worldsoul Saga was marketed for the promise of better storytelling as a direct response to what WoW's main competitor is known for.

And I think that it's safe to say that it has been a complete failure in that regard. IMO there has been some improvement, but WoW is miles behind FFXIV regarding story and characters. Although, to be fair, Blizzard never intended to reach FFXIV quality in those departments. The WSS saga announcement was primarily a commercial move.

The biggest threat to WoW's future user acquisition is Blizzard continuing to sand off the WARcraft elements in a misaimed attempt to generate mass appeal. The more WoW becomes a generic do-gooder fantasy game, the more it will struggle to compete with other do-gooder fantasy games that are better executed. Meanwhile, one of the reasons why people flocked and remained fiercely loyal to WoW in the first place was for the stuff that no other game offered. The WARcraft.

I disagree because I believe that the vast majority of players don't care that much about the story or about the old vibes. But I completely agree that WoW is losing what made it unique. Night Elves are the best example. How cool they were in Warcraft 3 and how lame and generic have they become it's a crime.

But the main issue with a WoW 2 is that it has to attract a lot of new players. Currently one of the main appeals of WoW is the 20 years of transmogs and mounts.

I think that we won't see a WoW 2. It would be a disaster as long as WoW is strong.

Collections are both a blessing and a curse. IMO it's what keeps so many playing and also so many away from the game.

I think the best bet at this stage would be to continue revamping the current game.

I mean, Blizzard doesn't have a choice. They have to keep moving WoW forward because it's still a very successful game.

I said that Midnight would receive more content than any other expansion and I think that it's clear that this is going to be the case.

I'm a little concerned about the ever increasing mounts and sets that are shop exclusive. But honestly we were spoiled. That WoW wasn't constantly pumping paid cosmetics was, sadly, a miracle that is no more.

I'm very curious about Blizzcon because IMO it's clear that Warcraft needs a new game, both for PC and consoles, to at least try to reach the popularity that it once had and to appeal to younger players.

[THEORACLE64]

Kinda wish that 12.0 would be troll raid and 12.1 - Voidstorm and dealing with Xalatath invasion. That light beam from Sunwell is more epic than felstorm view from Dalaran, will be waste to fix it first month of expac.

I’m fed up of it already and want it gone tbh, I don’t need *another* permanently thing fixed to the expansion of a revamped zone. I feel like they don’t intend to keep it the entire time, as I imagine it’ll end up just looking like what’s the dawnwell on the loading screen.

[Sondrelk]

I mean, Blizzard doesn't have a choice. They have to keep moving WoW forward because it's still a very successful game.

I said that Midnight would receive more content than any other expansion and I think that it's clear that this is going to be the case.

I'm a little concerned about the ever increasing mounts and sets that are shop exclusive. But honestly we were spoiled. That WoW wasn't constantly pumping paid cosmetics was, sadly, a miracle that is no more.

I'm very curious about Blizzcon because IMO it's clear that Warcraft needs a new game, both for PC and consoles, to at least try to reach the popularity that it once had and to appeal to younger players.

Definitely a lot of shop exclusive cosmetics. But I am curious whether we are getting more of them compared to regular ones. We are gtting so many cosmetics in general now that I wonder whether the relative amount has changed much.

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Yeah, it's a strong premise with the threat always kept in mind across levelling, but it's doomed to peter out very quickly. Sure, Xal is out there and the threat persists/is greater, but there's no direct threat or momentum of yet. Making Kith'ix/Ula'tek the first patch against the impersonal snake/old god general baddie in the sideplot and the second beat escalating with us fighting our corrupted allied characters, then progressing from there to the end boss is natural. It also means that the Rainbow Well business can be built up too instead of the entire Darkwell problem occurring and being resolved within a week.

Midnight is the first proper "The World is Ending" expansion since SL. And it is very obvious that the way the story is told, really favors the calmer DF style expansions. Where we deal with one more or less local threat at a time.

[huth]

Shadow is the name of the force. Void and shadow are the two magical representations of it, but both can and have been linked to Disorder before. I generalize the magical types of a certain power unless it's used by beings of another force entirely, or if used for another purpose entirely.

For example, while Void and shadow are the magical representations of Shadow, if the Demons utilize those magics and use them to spread the influence of Disorder, then I deem them as Disorder magics, due to their link to that force.

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You're right about beings utilizing rivaling magics, though.

The force has not been referred to as Shadow in a decade. It's always Void nowadays. And even before that, it used both names. Void has never been exclusive to its magics.

Shadow magic is far more ambiguous and isn't necessarily connected to Void. Sub rogues have none of the Void aesthetics but clearly use shadow magics based on far more literal shadows.

[Civciv]

Alleria and Arator got new Bnet avatars, but Turalyon didn't. I'm really worried Mr. Dilf might die

[DenPhoenix]

Kinda wish that 12.0 would be troll raid and 12.1 - Voidstorm and dealing with Xalatath invasion. That light beam from Sunwell is more epic than felstorm view from Dalaran, will be waste to fix it first month of expac.

++ I agree. It would’ve been better if we first dealt with a smaller threat, and only then moved into the whole Darkwell storyline.

Of course, we still don’t know what Ula-Tek will actually be about, but after a massive clash with a cosmic force — and then the escalation into new Void Invasion in 0.5 and 0.7 — suddenly going off to deal with some local storyline just feels weak.

It would basically repeat what happened when, after Khaz Algar, we went to Undermine to beat up Gallywix, but at least that had some connection to the Dark Heart and Black Blood. The main issue with the Amani storyline is that it pales in comparison to the main plot if they’re not dealing with a Void-level threat. The best option would have been to dedicate the first patch to them.

[JDBlou]

++ I agree. It would’ve been better if we first dealt with a smaller threat, and only then moved into the whole Darkwell storyline.

Of course, we still don’t know what Ula-Tek will actually be about, but after a massive clash with a cosmic force — and then the escalation into new Void Invasion in 0.5 and 0.7 — suddenly going off to deal with some local storyline just feels weak.

It would basically repeat what happened when, after Khaz Algar, we went to Undermine to beat up Gallywix, but at least that had some connection to the Dark Heart and Black Blood. The main issue with the Amani storyline is that it pales in comparison to the main plot if they’re not dealing with a Void-level threat. The best option would have been to dedicate the first patch to them.

We know Kithi'x is under Zul'aman from the Amani tablets and prior lore. The amani tablets added somepoint in the beta said that Kith'ix is somewhere more specific: under Atal'utek. We also don't know what the Twilights' end objective in Zul'aman was, I doubt they are there just sightseeing. And the area of the Broken Throne looks like someone was doing some void-induced explosive excavation. Looking for a buried old general?

Chances are they were sent there to resurrect Kith'ix to divide Silvermoon's attention.

[Boomer Thor]

Xal doesn't feel super threatening like she no longer has access to the CD drive

[Nymrohd]

Also does she have Dimensius' power anymore or was it used to build the Void Spire?

[Pyrophax]

Looking at Rutaani folk in Harandar and don't recognise their skeleton set. I didn't see anything like them. Blizzard rarelly make entire new model for single mobs. What are the chances for additional races with this skeleton?

[Joshuaj]

Wasn't there a world consumed by Light in 1000 Years of War that was just in pure stasis as a result of Light dominating it? Mountains of crystals filled with people both unloving and undying.

That sounds like the opposite of ignition.

Remember that one Oracle in Zereth Mortis?
- Her dreams sing beneath the surface. Quiet now, but her voice will awaken the others.
- Mortis. Lumen. Ordus. Rhythm and structure.
- Six voices in discord. Without harmony, the anthem will be ended.
- Vitae. Umbra. Tumult. Improvisation and possibility.

Bolded are relevant to the conversation, while the italics seem interesting in general.

Basically, Light - Order - Death are implied to be structured and having rhythm, while Disorder - Life - Void are evolving, changing, adapting.

If there is no balance in reality and it leans towards, say, Life: there will be abundant growth that will literally consume worlds but will probably eventually burn out and use up all energy/spirit because its unchecked by the other forces. Same goes for Light, world will be luminous but choked into uniformity and stasis.

Both of these things we saw happen to Draenor. The Sporemounds were dominating the planet and required Aggramars intervention to save it. And in the Maghar recruitment story, Draenor was on its last legs. Life was physically coming to a standstill since the Legion was fought back and the naaru/draenei started spreading the teachings of the light.

Yeah, I edited my comment to provide a better representation for each force.

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The force has not been referred to as Shadow in a decade. It's always Void nowadays. And even before that, it used both names. Void has never been exclusive to its magics.

Shadow magic is far more ambiguous and isn't necessarily connected to Void. Sub rogues have none of the Void aesthetics but clearly use shadow magics based on far more literal shadows.

The Midnight main questline is called "The War of Light and Shadow" so idk what you mean by that.

Also, you're confusing the magics of the force with the force itself.

[extasy]

Kinda wish that 12.0 would be troll raid and 12.1 - Voidstorm and dealing with Xalatath invasion. That light beam from Sunwell is more epic than felstorm view from Dalaran, will be waste to fix it first month of expac.

"Worlsoul saga" that is supposed to wrap up 20 years of wow storytelling and we're getting second major troll zone in a row. It's just hilarious.

Really hope they don't do saga bullshit anymore and we get actual big expansions like legion and BFA.

[Sondrelk]

"Worlsoul saga" that is supposed to wrap up 20 years of wow storytelling and we're getting second major troll zone in a row. It's just hilarious.

Really hope they don't do saga bullshit anymore and we get actual big expansions like legion and BFA.

If we consider the Harranir trolls, and assume Zul'Drak and all the Drakkari will not be nuked before TLT launches, then the real throughline of the saga will have been trolls, amusingly enough. The Harranir showed up during TWW questing. They and the Amani account for at least 3 zones by the end of Midnight. And Zul'Drak will probably be a thing in TLT.