Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Ersula]

I don't personally mind the Haranir being cut content from TWW and used in Midnight, but their lore just isn't very good imo. The world has been facing threat after threat and they are just sitting on their arse doing absolutely nothing. Not to mention how much they cross into Nelf teritorry.

Its so weird how they live around these roots but they identify them by the surface trees that connect to them. So from their perspective, there was 3 world trees for hundreds of thousands of years.....and then two more suddenly popped up in the last 20 years. And they don't comment about it at all. They don't even seem to have any curiosity about their origins.

Like, they're lecturing you about the trees while the player actively had a role in the existence of one of them. Them not asking about Amirdrassil is bothering me as much as no one wants to ask if Lothraxxion is a spy for Denathrius.

[Tourmaline]

I'm enjoying Midnight so far, but I can't help but feel like things would have been better if TWW had been allowed to be the expansion it was originally meant to be. With 12.0 being a fresh start. The Saga sounded like a good idea at Blizzcon, but Frankensteining it the way they did is not working overall.

[Khaza-R]

I'm enjoying Midnight so far, but I can't help but feel like things would have been better if TWW had been allowed to be the expansion it was originally meant to be. With 12.0 being a fresh start. The Saga sounded like a good idea at Blizzcon, but Frankensteining it the way they did is not working overall.

I feel the same but I think it really depends how the next two patches go.

I don't personally expect some great arc that will seamlessly transition into TLT. But if it does and the TLT story ends up being satisfying then I think Midnight will be foundly remembered. Otherwise, I think it will unfortunatelya never be able to dodge the "filler expansion" accusations.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I feel the same but I think it really depends how the next two patches go.

I don't personally expect some great arc that will seamlessly transition into TLT. But if it does and the TLT story ends up being satisfying then I think Midnight will be foundly remembered. Otherwise, I think it will unfortunatelya never be able to dodge the "filler expansion" accusations.

I am hard pressed to think of any expansion that was a "filler" expac. WoD and Shadowlands take place in other dimensions but still directly conclude preceding storylines that had been built up over many years (Warchiefs Garrosh and Sylvanas), and set up new storylines that affect multiple expansions later (Orc lore and Gul'dan. The Brokers and Amirdrassil). Midnight already is continuing/concluding the Xal'atath plot that began at the end of Dragonflight, following up on the Army of the Light/Turalyon/Alleria stuff that was introduced in 7.3, and is going to transistion into the next expansion.

[Foolicious]

Its so weird how they live around these roots but they identify them by the surface trees that connect to them. So from their perspective, there was 3 world trees for hundreds of thousands of years.....and then two more suddenly popped up in the last 20 years. And they don't comment about it at all. They don't even seem to have any curiosity about their origins.

Like, they're lecturing you about the trees while the player actively had a role in the existence of one of them. Them not asking about Amirdrassil is bothering me as much as no one wants to ask if Lothraxxion is a spy for Denathrius.

Or how they are not at all concerned about shaladrassil being infected by the light. At least we (or halduron) should be, right? Sure they can fight the lightbloom and make people immune with alndust, but why is no one concerned that there might be lightbloom spreading on the broken isles or how it infected a world tree in the first place?

I really like haranir as a playable race and what they might add to the ancient history of kalimdor. But the story in harandar is a big weak point.

[Khaza-R]

I am hard pressed to think of any expansion that was a "filler" expac. WoD and Shadowlands take place in other dimensions but still directly conclude preceding storylines that had been built up over many years (Warchiefs Garrosh and Sylvanas), and set up new storylines that affect multiple expansions later (Orc lore and Gul'dan. The Brokers and Amirdrassil). Midnight already is continuing/concluding the Xal'atath plot that began at the end of Dragonflight, following up on the Army of the Light/Turalyon/Alleria stuff that was introduced in 7.3, and is going to transistion into the next expansion.

Hence why it was put in quotations. There is no such thing a filler expansion in WoW. At least not yet. But unfortunately that doesn't mean fans still don't accuse it as such.

[Joshuaj]

Hence why it was put in quotations. There is no such thing a filler expansion in WoW. At least not yet. But unfortunately that doesn't mean fans still don't accuse it as such.

They'd be wrong in their accusations then.

[Limayria]

doing side quest in harandar for rep, found one talking about how the "goddess" used to have a pet called alh'sharan, who "Was so sad he flew up to the highest roots of Harandrar never to be seen again"but every so often he goes to look for for food and his scales fall as "skyglass"


there's also a "forgotten mural" that makes mention of "the slumbering darkness banished below"

the horrors encountered on the great journey

"what brought us to this new home we call harandar"

and "guided by the song for the goddess who will one day return to her cradle"

[Joshuaj]

doing side quest in harandar for rep, found one talking about how the "goddess" used to have a pet called alh'sharan, who "Was so sad he flew up to the highest roots of Harandrar never to be seen again"but every so often he goes to look for for food and his scales fall as "skyglass"


there's also a "forgotten mural" that makes mention of "the slumbering darkness banished below"

the horrors encountered on the great journey

"what brought us to this new home we call harandar"

and "guided by the song for the goddess who will one day return to her cradle"

The fact Aln'sharan's form is of a Pandaria Dragon kinda furthers my theory of Harandar possibly being the Elemental Plane of Spirit.

If you're wondering, I personally believe Ra and Helya didn't actually make the Elemental Planes. Maybe they made the structures within the planes (Like the Temple of Earth, Sulfuron Keep, etc), but I believe the planes always existed.

[Limayria]

The fact Aln'sharan's form is of a Pandaria Dragon kinda furthers my theory of Harandar possibly being the Elemental Plane of Spirit.

If you're wondering, I personally believe Ra and Helya didn't actually make the Elemental Planes. Maybe they made the structures within the planes (Like the Temple of Earth, Sulfuron Keep, etc), but I believe the planes always existed.

I could see that, especially with the stuff we learned about the emerald dream having that part "ordered" by the titans and the fact that titans consider "ordering" and "creation" to be the same thing

then we'd have a fire/earth/air/water/death/spirit plane all with parts ordered by the titans

[Joshuaj]

I could see that, especially with the stuff we learned about the emerald dream having that part "ordered" by the titans and the fact that titans consider "ordering" and "creation" to be the same thing

then we'd have a fire/earth/air/water/death/spirit plane all with parts ordered by the titans

Actually, the Emerald Dream is a PERFECT example. The Emerald Dream itself is seemingly Azeroth's natural dream reflection (And it seemingly has a link to the Plane of Life), yet the place was definitely ordered by Eonar and Freya, with the Wellspring of Life and Eye of Ysera being structures placed to preserve the Dream's ordering.

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The 4 main elemental planes were definitely ordered by Keeper Ra and Helya, but I don't think Thros and Harandar were touched by them at all (Assuming these realms are the planes of Decay and Spirit respectively).

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Funny enough, if you want an example of "imposed" structure on a higher scale, then the Shadowlands being "too ordered" was likely an intentional design by Order (I mean one of the primordial powers that shaped the cosmos, not the Titans). As for what reason though? We have yet to see.

[Hearthfinder]

????
Just fly around the zone?

It's not a actually cave.
It's only "underground" insofar as you reach it through the Rootways, which the Haranir accessed by going deep down.

The actual landmass is just sitting there in the mist, surrounding by an expanse of it and not a rocky mantle.

The roots themselves are growing from the mist into Harandar.

Spoiler: 

I see what you mean now. I think that's a cool observation, but probably just comes down to Blizzard trying to make the place seem a bit otherworldly and enchanting, vaguely dreamlike to connect it with the idea that the worldsoul slumbered there.

I guess I could see it being some sort of pocket-dimension created by the Worldsoul's dreams or something. But not like another planet or anything.

There's too much physical stuff down there connecting it to Azeroth imo, from roots to Azerite.

[SaintBigfoot]

I find it very funny that I have seen several people bitching about "Slaughtering people" in Magister's Terrace when if you *click* on anybody they're marked as unconcious and the have Z's above their heads.

[Joshuaj]

This is basically how I see each main area in the Cosmology (Much of this is speculation on my end):

The Material Sphere (The Cosmic Nexus/Mortal Plane. This Realm is both a product of each Cosmic influence converging, as well as an eternal battleground for each influence. Stars live and die, black holes come and go, planets form and disintegrate, etc. The cycles of the forces are most prominent in this Realm. The primary denizens of the Dark Beyond are the mortals):
- The Great Dark Beyond + the Timeways (The Worldsouls exist within the Dark Beyond, and each Worldsoul sings a song (These songs may have a fundamental link). The Prime Worldsoul is Azeroth (Or, if you're a Haranir, Aln'hara). Their true nature is seemingly unknown, though there have been theories suggesting that they might be direct remnants of the 7th power (Which would explain a certain factor I'll explain later on in the list). We can't directly confirm or debunk this at the moment, however. If this is true though, then it would stand to reason that the Elements would likely be the 7th's influence within the cosmos. Quick trivia: The 7th Power sings a separate song from the other six First Ones. This may or may not end up being linked to the songs of the Worldsouls).

The Elemental Sphere (Azeroth's Elemental Planes. These are the domains of the Elements, which serve as the very building blocks for our world (With the Elements as a whole serving as the building blocks for the physical (and possibly metaphysical) properties of existence). Unknown if they connect to other worlds, or if they're specific to just Azeroth. Although it's stated the main 4 were created by Keeper Ra and Helya, I personally believe that's exaggerated, and that the Planes themselves were always there. At best, I do believe they made the main structures of the Planes):
- Skywall (Air. Main Structure: Throne of the Four Winds. Ruled by Thunderaan, the Windlord. Former Ruler: Al'Akir)
- The Abyssal Maw (Water. Main Structure: Throne of the Tides. Ruled by Neptulon, the Tidehunter)
- Deepholm (Earth. Main Structure: Temple of Earth. Ruled by Therazane, the Stonemother)
- The Firelands (Fire. Main Structure: Sulfuron Keep. No current Firelord, supposedly. Former Rulers: Smolderon, and Ragnaros)
- Harandar (Spirit. Main Region: The Cradle of Aln'hara. No Elemental Embodiment, but the Haranir Elders seemingly rule over the land currently. The Roots of the World Trees converge here, likely due to the Realm having an inherent connection with Elun'ahir, which was seemingly the first World Tree that was planted during the Titans war against the Black Empire, but was plucked by Aman'Thul shortly after).
- Thros (Decay. Main Region: Unknown. No Elemental Embodiment, but the Drust King seemingly rules over the land. Current Drust King is seemingly unknown. Dunno if Gorak Tul is perma dead, if he'll have a successor, if he's capable of returning, or what. This realm is also linked to the Emerald Dream, and has connections to Death and the Void).

The Cosmic Sphere (The Realms of the Cosmic Forces. These Realms exist outside the borders of the Dark Beyond, and they're responsible for keeping the cosmos balanced. The representations of the eternal cycles between Life and Death, Order and Disorder, as well as Light and Shadow are the Ouroboros Serpents. There is also a "crooked serpent", but it is unknown what that's about. May or may not be linked to the 7th Power):
- The Twisting Nether (Disorder. Main Area: Antorus, the Burning Throne (Located at Argus, a world that became linked to the Nether). Reigned by the Demons. Possibly no governing body)
- The Shadowlands (Death. Main Area: Oribos (The center of the Shadowlands. Houses the Arbiter). Ruled by the Eternal Ones, who are located at their respective Covenant Realms, which surround Oribos. They occasionally meet up at the Crucible, which exists at the top of Oribos, where the Arbiter resides)
- The Void/Voidlands (Shadow. Main Area: Voidspire (Located at Predacea, a world that became linked to the Void Realm and became the Voidstorm). Possibly temporary names for the Realm. Seemingly formerly ruled by the Void Lords. Current ruler is Xal'atath.)
- The Light (Light. Main Area: Unknown. Temporary name for the Realm. Another possible name is Heaven, but that's speculation. No confirmed Ruler or Rulers, but it is theorize the Light likely has a ruling body of some kind. We have to wait and see)
- The Gardens of Life (Life. Main Area: Unknown. Possibly a temporary name for the Life Realm. Azeroth's dream reflection is linked to this Realm (This dream reflection was ordered by the Titans, though, with the Eye of Ysera and Wellspring of Life serving as its key locations). Rulers are the Pantheon of Life, which Elune is part of. Unknown how many total members are in it though. Could be a few, could just be two. We'll have to wait and see)
- The Order Realm (Order. Main Area: Seemingly unknown. (The Seat of the Pantheon exists within the Beyond, though we don't know if the Titans have areas in the Order Realm, assuming it exists). Gonna assume Order has a Realm associated with it, would be shocked if it didn't. The Timeways MIGHT be linked to it, but that's my speculation. Ruled by the Titans)

The Celestial Sphere (The Zereth Workshops. These massive foundaries are responsible for creating the Cosmic Realms. They exist beyond the boundaries of the realms, deep within the ether of the universe. They are forbidden to even the cosmic pantheons. The caretakers of these workshops are the Automa, which are overseen by Principal Architects. Example: Lihuvim at Zereth Mortis):
Rhythm and Structure (The Functions of these specific forces. The Workshops ensure these influences are properly designed to carry out these tasks):
- Zereth Mortis (Cornerstone of Death. Creation Machine: The Forge of Afterlives. Inner Sanctum: Sepulcher of the First Ones)
- Zereth Ordus (Cornerstone of Order. Creation Machine: Unknown. Inner Sanctum: Unknown)
- Zereth Lumen (Cornerstone of Light. Creation Machine: Unknown. Inner Sanctum: Unknown)

Improvisation, and Possibility (The Functions of these specific forces. The Workshops ensure these influences are properly designed to carry out these tasks) :
- Zereth Umbra (Cornerstone of Shadow. Creation Machine: Unknown. Inner Sanctum: Unknown)
- Zereth Vitae (Cornerstone of Life. Creation Machine: Unknown. Inner Sanctum: Unknown)
- Zereth Tumult (Cornerstone of Disorder. Creation Machine: Unknown. Inner Sanctum: Unknown)

The Primordial Sphere (The very heart of the Cosmos, where the ancient forces slumber, and where the Cosmic Hearts reside. This is the origin point of existence, the ancient fractal that started it all):
- The Cosmic Hearts of the Inner Sanctums (Example: The Heart of the Sepulcher. The Machine of Origination exists at the very edge of the Sepulcher's Core, at the Heart of Eternity)
- The First Ones (The primal six powers that shaped the cosmos (It is possible the 7th also resides here in some form, namely due to the top and bottom portions of the skybox having swirls, albeit they're far more dim than the other 6 swirls (which would maybe lead to both a connection with the Worldsouls, as well as my theory regarding their nature above), and we know the 6 glowing nebulas represent the forces. The skybox also goes perfectly with the Machine of Origination design pattern). They lie dormant, existing in perfect balance and harmony. There are two songs of creation that exist: The Song of the Six and the Song of the Seventh. Their songs echo throughout existence, though it is theorized the Song of the Six might not be directly sung by the six First Ones. It is unknown if the 7th directly sings its song still)

[Limayria]

I find it very funny that I have seen several people bitching about "Slaughtering people" in Magister's Terrace when if you *click* on anybody they're marked as unconcious and the have Z's above their heads.

What? You expect people to play the game that they bitch about every day?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I find it very funny that I have seen several people bitching about "Slaughtering people" in Magister's Terrace when if you *click* on anybody they're marked as unconcious and the have Z's above their heads.

It was poorly presented. For well over a decade, the norm has been that if you non-fatally beat someone (ie the monks in Shado-Pan Monastery, Wrathion when you fight him at Xuen's temple, etc), they will turn yellow and immune to your attacks and then step away or say "enough!". This is the first instance I can recall where they fall over as if dead and can be looted, but it turns out that they are not actually dead.

[Lorca]

It’s funny how Amani and Zul’Aman are generating a lot more of conversation than the Haranir or Harandar! Just my opinion, but I feel like Blizzard probably didn’t expect it…

I am still hoping for playable Amani, because of three main reasons: Atal’utek/Ula’tek, the big number of people asking for them and because it would be a huge miss if Blizzard didn’t add them after being asked for so many years and having now the perfect chance.

Another thing is the fact that they decided to actually change the male model after the community complained (the noses particularly); why would they do that if they were just gonna disappear after Midnight? Let’s cross fingers!

[Joshuaj]

I think they 100% expected that, given Atal'utek might be the 12.1 location...

[loras]

It was poorly presented. For well over a decade, the norm has been that if you non-fatally beat someone (ie the monks in Shado-Pan Monastery, Wrathion when you fight him at Xuen's temple, etc), they will turn yellow and immune to your attacks and then step away or say "enough!". This is the first instance I can recall where they fall over as if dead and can be looted, but it turns out that they are not actually dead.

Garrosh Hellscream says hi, though i agree they could make it more obvious.
Frankly they should include at least one quest per expansion where they make this particular possibility obvious.

[Nymrohd]

doing side quest in harandar for rep, found one talking about how the "goddess" used to have a pet called alh'sharan, who "Was so sad he flew up to the highest roots of Harandrar never to be seen again"but every so often he goes to look for for food and his scales fall as "skyglass"


there's also a "forgotten mural" that makes mention of "the slumbering darkness banished below"

the horrors encountered on the great journey

"what brought us to this new home we call harandar"

and "guided by the song for the goddess who will one day return to her cradle"

You can actually find Aln'sharan flying around the zone (fairly high) and it is just a big cloud serpent. Can also collect it as a mount.
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=242086/alnsharan
I'd say this is probably a wild god.

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I find it very funny that I have seen several people bitching about "Slaughtering people" in Magister's Terrace when if you *click* on anybody they're marked as unconcious and the have Z's above their heads.

I'd love to know how you deal non-lethal damage with pyroblasts and chaos bolts. Or with anything in this game really, non-lethal damage in WoW is hilarious.