Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Boomer Thor]

I find it very funny that I have seen several people bitching about "Slaughtering people" in Magister's Terrace when if you *click* on anybody they're marked as unconcious and the have Z's above their heads.

If you knock someone out in a forest filled with wild feral bears and then a bear comes and eats their face and mauls them to death are you not complicit in their murder?

Alot of the blood elves are unconscious but then a bunch of blueberry space aliens come and invade.

[Makabreska]

If you knock someone out in a forest filled with wild feral bears and then a bear comes and eats their face and mauls them to death are you not complicit in their murder?

Alot of the blood elves are unconscious but then a bunch of blueberry space aliens come and invade.

And you are simply overthinking this. We knock them unconscious, void creatures appear but they don't finish them off. Therefore, they are fine and we are not "complicit in their murder" in any way.

[Nymrohd]

And you are simply overthinking this. We knock them unconscious, void creatures appear but they don't finish them off. Therefore, they are fine and we are not "complicit in their murder" in any way.

It is narratively weird, especially considering Umbric seems to be reinstated as a Magister and gets his room back in the spoilers after the raid. He attacked the place, caused a void breach (that he resolved but he is the one who caused it) and then he gets to return to the place and live with these people?

[Makabreska]

It is narratively weird, especially considering Umbric seems to be reinstated as a Magister and gets his room back in the spoilers after the raid. He attacked the place, caused a void breach (that he resolved but he is the one who caused it) and then he gets to return to the place and live with these people?

Or you could explain it like this: there is a big void orb above Silvermoon that threatens to consume it and entire planet, Umbric gets a permission from Lor'themar to go to MGT to get the artifact that allows entry to Voidstorm, MGT admin ignores the order from his superior, Umbric (acting in the state of higher necessity and knowing there is little time) get's physical.

Considering all this, it would be belves from MGT that should feel stupid afterwards.

[Nymrohd]

Or you could explain it like this: there is a big void orb above Silvermoon that threatens to consume it and entire planet, Umbric gets a permission from Lor'themar to go to MGT to get the artifact that allows entry to Voidstorm, MGT admin ignores the order from his superior, Umbric (acting in the state of higher necessity and knowing there is little time) get's physical.

Theron is not Rommath's superior when it comes to the Magisters and that is made clear repeatedly through the campaign.

[Sondrelk]

It is narratively weird, especially considering Umbric seems to be reinstated as a Magister and gets his room back in the spoilers after the raid. He attacked the place, caused a void breach (that he resolved but he is the one who caused it) and then he gets to return to the place and live with these people?

The void breach seems to be caused by the Voidstorm worsening at that point in the campaign more than anything.

[Makabreska]

Theron is not Rommath's superior when it comes to the Magisters and that is made clear repeatedly through the campaign.

Maybe, but Seranel does not explain that, he simply says "liar!" in response.

And in the end, it may be simply one of many story loopholes this game has. Pretty small one, considering stuff like Nightborn joining one faction after Legion to immediately start murdering other.

[Nymrohd]

Maybe, but Seranel does not explain that, he simply says "liar!" in response.

And in the end, it may be simply one of many story loopholes this game has. Pretty small one, considering stuff like Nightborn joining one faction after Legion to immediately start murdering other.

Oh certainly. I don't expect the story to make sense, just pointing out places where it doesn't.

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The void breach seems to be caused by the Voidstorm worsening at that point in the campaign more than anything.

Immediately after the ward to a Void artifact comes down a void breach happens. The timing is crazy. If they wanted it to be unrelated, you could have run back out of the room with the artifact and THEN the void breach happens. Heck, have it happen after you take down Custos but before Seranel with Umbric telling Seranel he can use the artifact to shut the breach down making the case in favour of Umbric even stronger.

[Skildar]

A Qui Pro Quo? Hum let's use violence and murder.
Nope this is no justification for such type of response as there was none either for Tyrande to murder wardens in order to free Illidan and that latter situation was much harder to resolve by simple dialogue compared to what happens in Midnight MGT.

[allegrian]

I just don't see any point in discussing Harandar or Haranir when it is literally tied to the Previous Narrative Lead. It's quite possibly the most pointless way to execute people for wrongthink as again it is literally a zone that serves zero purpose beyond the concept of the cradle and the moving of the World Soul to Titan Machinery.

It's a waste they'll be a popular playable AR forever. They should have just deleted them when danuser left.

[Boomer Thor]

And you are simply overthinking this. We knock them unconscious, void creatures appear but they don't finish them off. Therefore, they are fine and we are not "complicit in their murder" in any way.

Probably, but it's like having fainted people in a room full of starving tigers or bears.

Them making it out unscathed is a miracle that is as unlikely as bank robbers going into a bank without guards or alarms and with open doors etc and then making it out without any financial gain.

[DenPhoenix]

It's a waste they'll be a popular playable AR forever. They should have just deleted them when danuser left.

There was a lot they could have done with them. The idea of them being underground caretakers of the world roots and nature is perfectly fine on its own. Just Dark Trolls empowered by the Bat Loa(maybe not Hir'eek) or some underground Loa — that would’ve been enough.

[Nymrohd]

There was a lot they could have done with them. The idea of them being underground caretakers of the world roots and nature is perfectly fine on its own. Just Dark Trolls empowered by the Bat Loa(maybe not Hir'eek) or some underground Loa — that would’ve been enough.

Yeah, they would have absolutely worked as Dark Trolls. Just find them a loa to explain the quills and you can even keep the model. Of course then they wouldn't be in Midnight since Midnight already has the Amani

[allegrian]

There was a lot they could have done with them. The idea of them being underground caretakers of the world roots and nature is perfectly fine on its own. Just Dark Trolls empowered by the Bat Loa(maybe not Hir'eek) or some underground Loa — that would’ve been enough.

The thing is they are obviously out of place in midnight in a zone savaged from the previous TWW plan, it's a waste to make them the AR and they'll probably be very popular and poach night elf players and lore, now on horde too, where many druid monster races will race change.

[Ersula]

The thing is they are obviously out of place in midnight in a zone savaged from the previous TWW plan, it's a waste to make them the AR and they'll probably be very popular and poach night elf players and lore, now on horde too, where many druid monster races will race change.

I can't imagine Metzen coming back to work & greeting this decision to either have the second expansion in a row end with a heavy nature themed zone, or put two heavy nature themed zones into one expansion.

[Khaza-R]

My only issue with haranir is too much cannibalization from Night Elves. Sure, Earthen are just more dwarfs. But they still occupy their own niche of being automations. So they at least add a unique fantasy. Unless, I am missing something I just don't see the unique fantasy that haranir bring.

[Super Dickmann]

My only issue with haranir is too much cannibalization from Night Elves. Sure, Earthen are just more dwarfs. But they still occupy their own niche of being automations. So they at least add a unique fantasy. Unless, I am missing something I just don't see the unique fantasy that haranir bring.

I've always found the idea that Earthen steal from dwarves nonsensical. Every Earthen story in TWW and I do mean every single one, without fail, ties in with them being automatons with predetermined objectives and how they deal with it. Their connection with the Titans isn't about historical curiosity or plunder but Pinnochio-tier 'Am I real a boy'. The closest they come to cannibalizing dwarves is their gryphon riders, which a dwarf is better than them at and teaches them.

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Is this guy trying to imply that the Sons of Lothar are not a neutral organisation despite Eitrigg being a member?

It's like Danath told us back in Arathi, the Sons of Lothar have always had tolerance and compassion as their virtues and they honor their founder by adopting a (60-year old) orcish orphan (who they were at war with).

Incidentally, becoming a domesticated house zug of the Alliance organisation he warred with who defeated his best friend and Warchief is still somehow more congruent with Eitrigg, who may I remind exists from day 1 to disavow his race and make friends with a tolerant human, than his BFA stint. Breaking the space-time continuum to recruit the Mag'har in a total war for Sylvanas, only to at the end declare that this is bad and try to defect from a city protected by the same Mag'har he recruited. Then getting dogwalked across the streets while Orgrimmar citizens chuck tomatoes and poo at him.

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A zulaman with the story focusing on rising tensions between zuljan and zuljarra supporters with Zuljarra wanting to reach out to the loa for help and zuljan wanting to harness the light bloom would have been interesting

Have us go in to make sure Zuljarra wins the power struggle so zuljan stops fucking up stuff in eversong, and as we uncover stuff learning about the twilights blade stroking tensions

Yeah, as it stands, that Zul'jan did actually intend to retake Eversong with his empowered forces (a perfectly congruent goal given his background, race and so on) is only told us at the end in an optional conversation and their entire conflict about getting the loa back in the Amani is a red herring, as Zul'jan barely participates in the story except to fuck up, the Twilights in no way challenge the readoption of the loa and the loa are a blanket positive. Having it be the Blade exploiting the existing conflict to give themselves cover to access Kith'ix would solve all these problems and, if we're rewriting further, naturally lead into a Kith'ix/Ula'tek raid for 12.0 instead of resolving the main premise in the base game, with the fight between the various groups giving them the opening to do so, delaying an attack on Xal and thus leading to further tension between the paladins and Silvermoon. The writers' decision to both rush the main plot and vacate the Zul'Aman plot of any meaningful conflict, be it cultural or racial, makes this impossible of course.

[Sondrelk]

I've always found the idea that Earthen steal from dwarves nonsensical. Every Earthen story in TWW and I do mean every single one, without fail, ties in with them being automatons with predetermined objectives and how they deal with it. Their connection with the Titans isn't about historical curiosity or plunder but Pinnochio-tier 'Am I real a boy'. The closest they come to cannibalizing dwarves is their gryphon riders, which a dwarf is better than them at and teaches them.

If anything, the Earthen are frustrating because they are nowhere near as fun as Dwarves. Dwarves have fun scottish accents, Earthen are inconsistently robotic. Dwarves live in cool mountain cities. The Earthen live in a weird pit with an inexplicable tower in it.

[Super Dickmann]

If anything, the Earthen are frustrating because they are nowhere near as fun as Dwarves. Dwarves have fun scottish accents, Earthen are inconsistently robotic. Dwarves live in cool mountain cities. The Earthen live in a weird pit with an inexplicable tower in it.

Dwarves are a much better race, hell, Dark Iron Dwarves on their own are better. But not because the Earthen are derivative. They aim at something completely different and mostly accomplish it, at least during leveling. Their ending and the stupid giant sea robot business spaces their future involvement in the plot as it completely resolves the main premise of the race in a boring way.

Re: Haranir, they occupy a level of being derivative and parasitic on a player race just below the likes of Nightborne, who eliminate the entire arcane descendant premise of the Blood Elves from ever getting a shake again, or the Ebon Blade, which are basically sexier Forsaken. They steal being purple elf-adjacent druids who care about world trees from the Night Elves and their distinguishing traits, beyond their very pretty zone and cool design is mostly that they're kind of incompetent and clueless and the whole vision quest/aldnust as pseudo-narcotics connection with Azeroth. The latter bit doesn't cross over with the Night elves and is also fairly decently done.

[Sondrelk]

Yeah, as it stands, that Zul'jan did actually intend to retake Eversong with his empowered forces (a perfectly congruent goal given his background, race and so on) is only told us at the end in an optional conversation and their entire conflict about getting the loa back in the Amani is a red herring, as Zul'jan barely participates in the story except to fuck up, the Twilights in no way challenge the readoption of the loa and the loa are a blanket positive. Having it be the Blade exploiting the existing conflict to give themselves cover to access Kith'ix would solve all these problems and, if we're rewriting further, naturally lead into a Kith'ix/Ula'tek raid for 12.0 instead of resolving the main premise in the base game, with the fight between the various groups giving them the opening to do so, delaying an attack on Xal and thus leading to further tension between the paladins and Silvermoon. The writers' decision to both rush the main plot and vacate the Zul'Aman plot of any meaningful conflict, be it cultural or racial, makes this impossible of course.

What really grind me wrong about Zul'Aman in that respect is that the Loa storyline is written so hamfistedly I almost expect a twist where the Loa did actually abandon Zul'jin for no reason, and Zul'Jarra needs to learn the secret technique of sometimes being a dick from Zul'jan.