Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Ersula]

Isn't that because the Nathrezim were trying to put Argus's soul in a robot body? The one that Pelagos then uses?

There are some hints that you need to put a soul into these robots to make them an Eternal One (the big orbs in the Zereth Mortis temple).

Okay so people here are just assuming the Titans must have got bodies some other way then? I guess you're right in that they just skip that if they want to have a dramatic conclusion where Azeroth turns into a fully-formed Titan. But I think the fact that the Titans covered Azeroth in body-making factories might just mean it's robots all the way down. Making robots is like their favorite thing.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Why are we ignoring that titans have an as of yet non retconned origin that makes them living planets and not robots?

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/FPjLmMJb_L...FmYXJpLzYwNC4x

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Why are we ignoring that titans have an as of yet non retconned origin that makes them living planets and not robots?

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/FPjLmMJb_L...FmYXJpLzYwNC4x

Because one poster (Ersula) is presuming they are robots based on circumstantial details tied to their supposed origins and his perspective on their mannerisms being robotic, making roundabout connections based on what we saw in Shadowlands, and is choosing to just call them that.

I stated before that it could very well end up being that the titans are just robots, much like the Eternal Ones, with the key difference being the Eternal One's bodies were manufactured instead of allowed to grow inside a planet. But we don't know what we don't know.

[Nymrohd]

Isn't that because the Nathrezim were trying to put Argus's soul in a robot body? The one that Pelagos then uses?

There are some hints that you need to put a soul into these robots to make them an Eternal One (the big orbs in the Zereth Mortis temple).

Not hints. We are pretty much told how it works. Saezurah tells us that the vessel (the arbiter prototype, similar to the ones in the Sepulcher for the other Eternals) needs to be filled with a soul. The Crypt had such a soul in wait before the nathrezim intervened to shove Argus in the vessel.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Okay so people here are just assuming the Titans must have got bodies some other way then?

I mean, you are saying "assuming" yet we have official lore that describes how titans come to be.

I guess you're right in that they just skip that if they want to have a dramatic conclusion where Azeroth turns into a fully-formed Titan. But I think the fact that the Titans covered Azeroth in body-making factories might just mean it's robots all the way down. Making robots is like their favorite thing.

You draw heavy conclusions from weak details, mostly of which are just your personal opinions, and I once again question how can people argue that their presumptions over things are actually factual.

[Ersula]

Because one poster (Ersula) is presuming they are robots based on circumstantial details tied to their supposed origins and his perspective on their mannerisms being robotic, making roundabout connections based on what we saw in Shadowlands, and is choosing to just call them that.

I stated before that it could very well end up being that the titans are just robots, much like the Eternal Ones, with the key difference being the Eternal One's bodies were manufactured instead of allowed to grow inside a planet. But we don't know what we don't know.

The Jailer sticking Argus into an robot body & him being reborn isn't circumstantial. It's fact. I know most people stopped playing Shadowlands by then but it happened.

Why are we ignoring that titans have an as of yet non retconned origin that makes them living planets and not robots?

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/FPjLmMJb_L...FmYXJpLzYwNC4x

It's not one or the other: It's both. Their souls are living planets. But they need bodies. Ergo, the robots.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

The Jailer sticking Argus into an robot body & him being reborn isn't circumstantial. It's fact.

Never mind the fact that what you just said did not happen at all--which leads me to believe you have absolutely 0 clue what the fuck you are actually talking about--but how the fuck does that prove they were robots to begin with?
Guess what: Generation one death knights are the souls of slain human knights placed in bodies. Does that make them... ?

Socrethar's soul in AU Draenor being placed into the corrupted vigilant. Does that make him... ?

Your entire premise is that the Eternal Ones were created from square 1 as robots. How is that the same for titans when what we've been told is not the case?

EDIT: I'd like to point out now that you are trying to use the case of Argus' soul intending to be placed into a robotic body as proof that titans are exactly the same as the Eternal Ones, from genesis to execution of role. This is a ridiculous notion from your part.

[milkmustache]

Every time I read the words "Arbiter", "Zereth", or "robot" I want to jam a pen in my eye.

If the argument is "people don't remember this because the abandoned the game by that point", maybe the continuation should be "and because of that, it's a poor decision deserving of a retcon."

[DenPhoenix]

The Jailer sticking Argus into an robot body & him being reborn isn't circumstantial. It's fact. I know most people stopped playing Shadowlands by then but it happened.It's not one or the other: It's both. Their souls are living planets. But they need bodies. Ergo, the robots.

Could you please show us in this moment - https://youtu.be/ozoChFpm8cw?si=h5jbHiirNOlUtnNq - where soul of Argus supposedly possessed in a robotic body in order to obtain a physical form?))))

[Lahis]

Titans are not robots.

The Titan keepers and lesser titanforged are.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It's not one or the other: It's both. Their souls are living planets. But they need bodies. Ergo, the robots.

Don’t know why you’d cling to this incorrect fanfic, after linked a direct refutation, but here it is again.

Their spirits-known as world-souls-formed deep within the fiery core of a small number of worlds. For ages, these
nascent titans slumbered, their energies suffusing the celestial bodies they inhabited. When the titans finally awoke, they did so as living worlds. Cosmic winds howled across their gigantic forms, bodies shrouded in a cloak of stardust, skin crisscrossed with silvery mountain peaks and oceans shimmering with latent magic.

There is no robot parts involved just world souls as the well soul, and planets as the body’s.

[Cheezits]

Eternal Ones are fake godsplanted by Titans/something else to make sure "The Shadowlands" behaves how it is programmed to. Just like the Keepers on Azeroth, Tree Lady in the Dream, etc.

Done. Signed, sealed, delivered. Elune is not a robot, An'she is not a robot, etc. Sometimes "retcons" (I am suspicious that this was actually always the case and regardless of how mind bogglingly stupid it was to not reveal it in SL itself, the expansion was written with the setting intended to be a ruse/fake) are good.

[Nightshade711]

Eternal Ones are fake godsplanted by Titans/something else to make sure "The Shadowlands" behaves how it is programmed to. Just like the Keepers on Azeroth, Tree Lady in the Dream, etc.

Done. Signed, sealed, delivered. Elune is not a robot, An'she is not a robot, etc. Sometimes "retcons" (I am suspicious that this was actually always the case and regardless of how mind bogglingly stupid it was to not reveal it in SL itself, the expansion was written with the setting intended to be a ruse/fake) are good.

Tbh I’ve expected it to always be the case too.
Especially when you take into account that a Constellar was able to get into ZM to observe what was going on (and perhaps pull an Algalon to reset the system?)

Also the fact that there were beings that existed before the Eternal Ones came in and made the realms what they were. (Almost as if they were ordered.)

Also the fact that Ardenweald connects directly to the Emerald Dream (a section of the realm of life(?) meant to be the titan’s blueprint for Azeroth) is another.

[Limayria]

Eternal Ones are fake godsplanted by Titans/something else to make sure "The Shadowlands" behaves how it is programmed to. Just like the Keepers on Azeroth, Tree Lady in the Dream, etc.

Done. Signed, sealed, delivered. Elune is not a robot, An'she is not a robot, etc. Sometimes "retcons" (I am suspicious that this was actually always the case and regardless of how mind bogglingly stupid it was to not reveal it in SL itself, the expansion was written with the setting intended to be a ruse/fake) are good.

I think the cut raid tier was supposed to explore the SL being fake

[Boomer Thor]

Never mind the fact that what you just said did not happen at all--which leads me to believe you have absolutely 0 clue what the fuck you are actually talking about--but how the fuck does that prove they were robots to begin with?
Guess what: Generation one death knights are the souls of slain human knights placed in bodies. Does that make them... ?

Socrethar's soul in AU Draenor being placed into the corrupted vigilant. Does that make him... ?

Your entire premise is that the Eternal Ones were created from square 1 as robots. How is that the same for titans when what we've been told is not the case?

EDIT: I'd like to point out now that you are trying to use the case of Argus' soul intending to be placed into a robotic body as proof that titans are exactly the same as the Eternal Ones, from genesis to execution of role. This is a ridiculous notion from your part.

Please calm down when replying to others you can't aid someone when you are angry and that's ok.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Please calm down when replying to others you can't aid someone when you are angry and that's ok.

I can do without the peanut gallery sharing their thoughts on how my conversations are going. Thanks but no thanks!

Also: if you aren't apart of the conversation taking place, it's generally considered rude to butt into it in an off-topic manner.

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Also the fact that there were beings that existed before the Eternal Ones came in and made the realms what they were. (Almost as if they were ordered.)

Also the fact that Ardenweald connects directly to the Emerald Dream (a section of the realm of life(?) meant to be the titan’s blueprint for Azeroth) is another.

I don't believe this personally, but there is rhetoric that the titans manufactured the "mythos" of the First Ones. I think that started as a fan theory.

[Boomer Thor]

I can do without the peanut gallery sharing their thoughts on how my conversations are going. Thanks but no thanks!

Also: if you aren't apart of the conversation taking place, it's generally considered rude to butt into it in an off-topic manner.

Don't care but act better because you are better

[Joshuaj]

Or the Shadowlands is the 'Ordered' section of it

The Shadowlands is a universal sized realm, it was made with structure in mind. It's not like the Emerald Dream whatsoever.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Don't care

Then don't reply to me.

Again.

[Joshuaj]

They're literally called AUTOMA. As in Automaton. Which is another word for robot. They are known for literally building robots. Their robots talk and act like them. And the Titans also do this, complete with making massive robot factories on Azeroth. The only difference is the Titans got a Greek Pantheon aesthetic thrown on top. And the Arbiter, aesthetically, is the linking point between the rest of the Shadowlands & the Automa. The Arbiter - The Titans - The Automa. They're bringing a very old wow concept full circle.

It's robots all the way down. It was all just Metzen taking the idea of an elder god council & mixing it with the sci-fi trope of advanced technology being indistinguishable from magic.
Hypothetical for everyone: Which would you prefer for a season premise... 1.) We team up with the New Scarlets to fight the New Scourge. Or 2.) We team up with the New Scourge to fight the Scarlets?

I understand the names of the Zereth caretakers, but here is the thing, the Automa don't even have typical "technological" parts. They are built VIA unique metallic materials and magic. That's not really "robotic".

The rest of Zereth Mortis is full of similar things, but is also full of prototypical waters, plants, rocks, etc. It's less robotic, and more-so a "first draft" of everything.

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Eternal Ones are fake godsplanted by Titans/something else to make sure "The Shadowlands" behaves how it is programmed to. Just like the Keepers on Azeroth, Tree Lady in the Dream, etc.

Done. Signed, sealed, delivered. Elune is not a robot, An'she is not a robot, etc. Sometimes "retcons" (I am suspicious that this was actually always the case and regardless of how mind bogglingly stupid it was to not reveal it in SL itself, the expansion was written with the setting intended to be a ruse/fake) are good.

The Eternal Ones are not like the Keepers or Nymue. Heck, one of the Eternal Ones literally went against the Progenitors Grand Design and ended up becoming one of the greatest threats in the cosmos.

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Tbh I’ve expected it to always be the case too.
Especially when you take into account that a Constellar was able to get into ZM to observe what was going on (and perhaps pull an Algalon to reset the system?)

Also the fact that there were beings that existed before the Eternal Ones came in and made the realms what they were. (Almost as if they were ordered.)

Also the fact that Ardenweald connects directly to the Emerald Dream (a section of the realm of life(?) meant to be the titan’s blueprint for Azeroth) is another.

The Emerald Dream existed before the Titans ordered it, and it seemingly has major connections to the Life Realm and Elune. And considering Elune and the Winter Queen are sisters, it makes sense that the realms would be connected in some form.

Also, there being creatures within the realms pre-Eternal Ones just means the First Ones made the realms first, and then placed the Pantheon members in them.

And finally, Rygelon observing the events occurring at the heart of the Sepulcher just means something assigned him there. It doesn't automatically have to mean the Titans assigned him, though. Assuming the First Ones are the Cosmic Forces, it's entirely possible Order simply created and assigned constellars to observe different areas, with many of them following the command of the Titans, who are the children of Order.

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I think the cut raid tier was supposed to explore the SL being fake

Uhm, what do you mean by this exactly?

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It seems I got my work cut out for me today, as we're back on the whole "Titans did it" narrative. Y'all should jump on the whole "Order did it" narrative instead. Would fit a lot of things better.