Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Boomer Thor]

If you don't like the sarcastic replies you're getting, quit making them yourself? Thanks!

Just asking you to behave and not be rude towards others. No one likes an arrogant asshole.

[Joshuaj]

Hmm, since everyone here has been talking about the Titans all day, I’d like to bring up an interesting topic related to them.

Since Mists of Pandaria we’ve known that Azeroth is the Last Titan.

But about a two month ago I found these lines from Aman’Thul (https://youtu.be/j4K0goEXEcs?si=uTEz6cPCEHp3FQtt) that never actually appeared in the game. They were most likely written under the assumption that we would receive loot chest in the Seat of the Pantheon, rather than on the Vindicaar.

At 0:30 he refers to Azeroth as the Final Titan.

And in another line(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ovHZiCipWM) tied to the Argus fight — at 1:07, if we lose — he calls Azeroth the Final Titan again.

So why Final Titan specifically? The Final for some particular purpose?

Cause Azeroth is the prime Worldsoul, and given Aman'Thul's mastery over Time, he probably realized that Azeroth might end up being the final worldsoul at some point, and given the Titans want to turn Azeroth into a Titan, that's probably why she's deemed "the Last Titan".

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

The greater narrative point of us going to Zereth Mortis was that we essentially went there far earlier than "intended". The game itself pushes this mindset multiple times.

I don't even disagree with this, I just don't find it interesting to argue about something we have contrary evidence towards since unless we actually visit other Zereths this will just be a point of needless bickering.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Hmm, since everyone here has been talking about the Titans all day, I’d like to bring up an interesting topic related to them.

Since Mists of Pandaria we’ve known that Azeroth is the Last Titan.

But about a two month ago I found these lines from Aman’Thul (https://youtu.be/j4K0goEXEcs?si=uTEz6cPCEHp3FQtt) that never actually appeared in the game. They were most likely written under the assumption that we would receive loot chest in the Seat of the Pantheon, rather than on the Vindicaar.

At 0:30 he refers to Azeroth as the Final Titan.

And in another line(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ovHZiCipWM) tied to the Argus fight — at 1:07, if we lose — he calls Azeroth the Final Titan again.

So why Final Titan specifically? The Final for some particular purpose?

This is kind of in-line with MoP's legendary questline with Wrathion, when after consuming the heart of Lei-Shen he goes into a trance and recants a message from the titans, saying: "We have fallen. We must rebuild the final titan."

Now, I'd imagine Blizzard did not have the story has fleshed out back then as they do now, but the footnotes remain the same: Azeroth being the last/final titan. Did they somehow determine there were absolutely 0 titans left in the entire universe? Not sure.

- - - Updated - - -

Just asking you to behave and not be rude towards others. No one likes an arrogant asshole.

One shouldn't ask people to stop engaging in the same behavior that they too engage in, publicly, often. Your posts are public. We can see them.

Again, for the 3rd time, you can stop replying to me.

[Ersula]

Robots are namely technological machines. The Keepers aren't robots by definition. Also, the memory stuff was done VIA magic.

Again, you're missing the point for a semantic issue. If you don't consider the Automa to be robots, that's fine..... even though it's literally in the name. The argument has never been stronger that the First Ones made the Titans & The Eternal Ones. All we have left is that one were designed to work in the Living World & the other was designed to work in the Shadowlands.

[Joshuaj]

Again, you're missing the point for a semantic issue. If you don't consider the Automa to be robots, that's fine..... even though it's literally in the name. The argument has never been stronger that the First Ones made the Titans & The Eternal Ones. All we have left is that one were designed to work in the Living World & the other was designed to work in the Shadowlands.

Sure. Dunno how that makes them robotic though. Heck, if we're to assume the First Ones are the forces, then that makes everything they made natural. Robots are artificial, unnatural.

[allegrian]

Harandar is so clearly cut TWW content with all the disenchants, fishing level, brann and so on that I just don't really want to do anything here, it almost feels like going back to TWW zones to do old expansion content. Even the vibes of the cinematics and story feel so TWW pre-kharesh...

[Joshuaj]

Like, it's hard to call this a "robot" when there's nothing really technological about it. Maybe I'm overthinking it? But it's just proto-metals and magic.

[Raetary]

Like, it's hard to call this a "robot" when there's nothing really technological about it. Maybe I'm overthinking it? But it's just proto-metals and magic.

Right.

If this very obvious construct does not count as "technological", what exactly do you think that word means?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I don't think suffusing means what you think it means. This is about The Jailer, The Eternal Ones & Even Argus being shown to be Automa "suffused" with worldsouls in the Zereth Mortis campaign & everyone in this thread pretending it didn't happen.

The jailer and Eternal ones are souls in automatons, not world souls. Argus as what was left of a world soul was an unfit match which is why he didn’t become arbiter on the spot like what’s his face did.

The living titans were not ever in any automations they were in planets as chronicles clearly and unambiguously states.

[Joshuaj]

Right.

If this very obvious construct does not count as "technological", what exactly do you think that word means?

I mean, would you call Aesir Titanforged watchers "technological"?

[Nymrohd]

We resurrected Tyr by building him a new body and downloading a memory backup into it. That is a robot.

Or necromancy. In D&D there are necromantic spells exactly to do this.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Artificial Beings doesn't mean much in context of the Warcraft Universe where everything went off script or is part of some grander Architects test.

Just because they were born in a specific manner doesn't mean that the development of self determination isn't applicable. See entire history of us meeting and engaging with artificial beings and also noticing artificial beings that go completely counter to any logical programming, anyways.

[Super Dickmann]

Shadowlands.

[milkmustache]

Shadowlands.

Cue me running in circles hitting my head with a giant rubber mallet while my teeth splay like broken piano keys, birds floating around the ever enlargening bump growing from the top of my head saying "Zereth... zereth... zereth."

[Nymrohd]

Imo, if it has a soul or some other magical animating force, it ain't a robot. Thorim had a wife, that's not a robot thing. Keepers and Titans both are presented as passionate and often irrational. They are magical creatures but just because they don't reproduce like organic life does, that doesn't make them artificial.

[Raetary]

I mean, would you call Aesir Titanforged watchers "technological"?

Yes, they are magitech, just like literally everything build by the Titans.

[Limayria]

I still think it's less an issue of "robots" or "technology" and more than this was the first time we saw a titan level character being mass produced in factory


Zereth mortis in general has never felt thematically consistent to me considering it's like a proto version of reality but like, why would the zereth of death be a prototype of reality? That doesn't really make sense, shouldn't that be more of a life zereth thing?

[Raetary]

I still think it's less an issue of "robots" or "technology" and more than this was the first time we saw a titan level character being mass produced in factory


Zereth mortis in general has never felt thematically consistent to me considering it's like a proto version of reality but like, why would the zereth of death be a prototype of reality? That doesn't really make sense, shouldn't that be more of a life zereth thing?

It's not a proto version of reality, the place is responsible for building afterlives within the Shadowlands.

All those bots and constructions you see lying around are schematics for the Forge of Afterlives to follow when it forges a new eternal retirement home.

[Nymrohd]

It's not a proto version of reality, the place is responsible for building afterlives within the Shadowlands.

All those bots and constructions you see lying around are schematics for the Forge of Afterlives to follow when it forges a new eternal retirement home.

I think it's just always important to note that we never saw the Shadowlands. We saw the five planes that had a function. We didn't see the supposed myriad of other planes that are just meant to be afterlives.