Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

That is what is set up, but the Light is set in such an absolute SHIT state by the end of 12.0 that it would be bizarre to pretend that it has a fighting chance to smack around Xal. And I don't think 12.1 will be about the Light at all.

This story really needs a patch about the Light before Xal otherwise they will basically recover in a questline or two or they are sidelined until Arathi expac.

I mean I certainly agree with these sentiments, but like I just feel like they're not too preoccupied by what they've done and are rather looking towards Post-World Soul Saga at this point. Maybe, I get surprised and they are able to self reflect and change their ways but like I'm just not thinking they're going to go "You know what, we really should take this seriously".

I mean, anything can happen at Blizzcon. But yeah, it looks really strange currently even if they somehow tie into Minor Patches even so with the context around Trolls, Life shenanigans I just am not certain at all. The Minor Patch after 12.1 could maybe be the rallying cry for the Light and the Raid is connected to it somehow but I feel like I'm at least grasping at straws to fit the Lights comeback as it just seems Xal'atath is literally even closer than the Jailor was at this point of achieving the ultimate prize.

[Nymrohd]

P.S. : The moment Arator steps in to take the blow directed at Zul'jan is a so badly directed. The cinematic doesn't show it but you're supposed to have Lor'themar, Liadrin, Rommath, some Blood Elves armed forces and your character next to them. But Zul'jan just stroll off. If we weren't shown Turalyon's eyes flaring as a bull stomps before it charges, Arator would have clearly been the blinded zealot in my eyes. He's the one gone so mad he's becoming suicidal.

Also as always, ignorant of what it means to be a paladin. Want to save Zul'jan, just bubble him!

[Limayria]

Arator had a family... He was apparently raised by Veresa. But that's beside the points Val raised. Everything in Midnight is there to change the depiction of Turalyon, he's not the sensible paladin that questions morals and goes against the Light to accept that her wife is not perceived as worthy for his god but she still is to him.
In this expansion alone he falls down to being sometimes in his past role (shield scene) but most of the times the bad guy, bad husband, bad father, bad leader, bad paladin, etc. Like every scene with Lor'Themar he can't help himself but spread his joy and zealotry of the Light. The most zealot he ever shown before was letting his god corrupt Illidan.

And the worst thing about Midnight is that everyone keeps telling Arator that he is right when he is blatantly not. Even at the end of Zul'Aman you get the confirmation that Zul'Jan is a warmonger aiming at the Elves. But Liadrin, Lor'Themar tell you that they feel ashamed of what they've done and they should have listened to Arator. The 40year old acting disrespectfully to his regent and to his superior and can't articulate any reasoning or even trust that the guy next to him that has lived 10 000 years might know a bit better how ugly it could get to let trolls roam their land.

It's constant. It doesn't mean the story is garbage but it draws a gap with how the Light used to be represented, with no narrative to make you go with it. And it's the same with some character's portrayal, and it's a bit too much for me. We will see down the line what their full story is but I'm not holding great hope as TWW didn't spend a lot of time continuing its storylines patches to patches.

P.S. : The moment Arator steps in to take the blow directed at Zul'jan is a so badly directed. The cinematic doesn't show it but you're supposed to have Lor'themar, Liadrin, Rommath, some Blood Elves armed forces and your character next to them. But Zul'jan just stroll off. If we weren't shown Turalyon's eyes flaring as a bull stomps before it charges, Arator would have clearly been the blinded zealot in my eyes. He's the one gone so mad he's becoming suicidal.

first of all I said Turyalon, the orphan raised in the church doesnt understand family dynamics so he has no idea how to be a father to Arator, where as Alleria has very strong family bonds with her siblings which is highlighted in the Arator cinematic where we see him reunite with his family and his dad goes "sure we werent there but we were doing important stuff! (losing a space war that was won in like 2 days by Illidan LOL)" and Alleria is like "im so sorry, i missed you every day I love you" and it goes even further showing us the scene of Alleria reaching out to Arator through the statue

[Skildar]

first of all I said Turyalon, the orphan raised in the church doesnt understand family dynamics so he has no idea how to be a father to Arator, where as Alleria has very strong family bonds with her siblings which is highlighted in the Arator cinematic where we see him reunite with his family and his dad goes "sure we werent there but we were doing important stuff! (losing a space war that was won in like 2 days by Illidan LOL)" and Alleria is like "im so sorry, i missed you every day I love you" and it goes even further showing us the scene of Alleria reaching out to Arator through the statue

Arator hasn't taken the time to do much since Legion and Turalyon was available at Stormwind and Silvermoon apparently. So spending some time wit him sur seems doable.
I'm not convinced anyway that emphacising on this is very relevant as well. Because the expandiction is basically:Alleria you have the right to feel weak, you have the right to torture with Light, you have the right to harness the power of the void. But Dad that piece of old era men. He's in the wrong he's bad and he cut someone, well obviously me, but let's pretend I didn't. Bad dad becoming wrathful, he's continaminating me. Mommy Light is bad and he didn't accept my gift, he's not open minded to change and working on growing as a person. Olease tell me about how absorbed a living Naaru, that seems educational

[Joshuaj]

That is what is set up, but the Light is set in such an absolute SHIT state by the end of 12.0 that it would be bizarre to pretend that it has a fighting chance to smack around Xal. And I don't think 12.1 will be about the Light at all.

This story really needs a patch about the Light before Xal otherwise they will basically recover in a questline or two or they are sidelined until Arathi expac.

It's funny too, cause even the "City of Light" AKA Midnight Silvermoon is gonna lose much of its Light-based vibes by sharing the Sunwell with the Void VIA the newfound Dawnwell lol.

So unless the Arathi Empire locks tf in, or unless we see the Light Realm...yeah, the Light is in a rough spot rn. Kinda sucks too, cause the Light in WoW could rival the Void in being one of the best interpretations of a cosmic power I've seen in fiction.

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Blizzard just needs to lock in for once with it.

[Jastall]

Arator had a family... He was apparently raised by Veresa. But that's beside the points Val raised. Everything in Midnight is there to change the depiction of Turalyon, he's not the sensible paladin that questions morals and goes against the Light to accept that her wife is not perceived as worthy for his god but she still is to him.
In this expansion alone he falls down to being sometimes in his past role (shield scene) but most of the times the bad guy, bad husband, bad father, bad leader, bad paladin, etc. Like every scene with Lor'Themar he can't help himself but spread his joy and zealotry of the Light. The most zealot he ever shown before was letting his god corrupt Illidan.

And the worst thing about Midnight is that everyone keeps telling Arator that he is right when he is blatantly not. Even at the end of Zul'Aman you get the confirmation that Zul'Jan is a warmonger aiming at the Elves. But Liadrin, Lor'Themar tell you that they feel ashamed of what they've done and they should have listened to Arator. The 40year old acting disrespectfully to his regent and to his superior and can't articulate any reasoning or even trust that the guy next to him that has lived 10 000 years might know a bit better how ugly it could get to let trolls roam their land.

It's constant. It doesn't mean the story is garbage but it draws a gap with how the Light used to be represented, with no narrative to make you go with it. And it's the same with some character's portrayal, and it's a bit too much for me. We will see down the line what their full story is but I'm not holding great hope as TWW didn't spend a lot of time continuing its storylines patches to patches.

P.S. : The moment Arator steps in to take the blow directed at Zul'jan is a so badly directed. The cinematic doesn't show it but you're supposed to have Lor'themar, Liadrin, Rommath, some Blood Elves armed forces and your character next to them. But Zul'jan just stroll off. If we weren't shown Turalyon's eyes flaring as a bull stomps before it charges, Arator would have clearly been the blinded zealot in my eyes. He's the one gone so mad he's becoming suicidal.

Arathor's the big problem TBH. When Turalyon is arguing with Lor'themar he's usually making decent enough points, he's zealous and committed to the fight but not stupidly so. It's when his son is involved that he has to be written as a moron so that Anduin But Elf is morally right. They're trying so hard to make their latest precious golden boy an impeccable paragon of moral rectitude which the audience empathizes with so much (/s) that it affects most characters that interact with him. Things are better when he's out of the picture, or just mostly being along for the ride like in Voidstorm.

Lothraxion is IMO a way worse character assassination. Guy was just turned into a dumb meathead that goes "Light smash!!". It really squanders the potential of a Light-aligned Nathrezim being different from both his kin but also his fellow believers. They might as well have slapped a Scarlet Crusade tabard on him to least make the proceedings somewhat funny.

But I do think the Light was just done dirty, between Arator being Arator, Lothraxion being a dumbass, and the Lightbloom being this incredibly derivative and boring muh corruption color swap that brings nothing interesting to the table. The Void is far better handled by the Void Elves getting fleshed out and Domanaar actually being written interestingly. T'is unfortunate their character design looks so bad.

[Cheezits]

I don't find Arator offensively bad. He's just generic, which our type will find more annoying, because we've seen how good WoW can be. Turalyon is actually pretty interesting this expansion IMO and Alleria is boring in both TWW and Midnight.

I think there's a lot of room for all three to grow in this expansion- but not if all three survive. I'll hold my full thoughts till after the Voidspire.

[Elronas16]

Main problem with WoW's writing is that there is - and never has been - an unimpeachable dictator/writer in charge of WoW who takes the credit and the blame for everything, and definitively owns the product and everything that happens in it. WoW does not have a Sakaguuchi, a Kojima, a Yoko Taro, a Kondo, a Yoshida, a Miyazaki, etc, who is in control and is implementing his vision. Metzen was never that guy, not when he was expressing frustration at writing the Forsaken for WC3 and that the WoW dev team didn't "get" what he was setting up. Or when the devs shoved in Belves into the Horde for the Asian market, Or when Metzen didn't want playable Death Knights and was overruled. Or when the Mongrel Horde almost happened and WoD only happened because someone thought that powermetal orcs were cooler rather than for any overarching planned artistic story. WoW is designed by a literal committee of people tugging and pulling, each on their own page with their own vision, from the higher ups down to the quest designers. And it is a revolving door committee too. The ideas that earlier people set up are never followed up on in the way that was originally envisioned as the guy either gets promoted or leaves the company and new people fill his shoes.

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For the videogame industry "just hire good writers" is not quite that simple.

I recommend to people that they read Shiwasu Tooru and Ken Shimomura (director of the Japan Game Scenario Writers Association)'s series of indepth articles about writers and their history in the videogames industry.

https://archive.fo/5e1nU
https://archive.fo/IDNXu
https://archive.fo/it4Ae
https://archive.fo/oJ2Eo
https://archive.fo/tYbMO
https://archive.fo/jeQBw
https://archive.fo/JUP1z

The TL;DR is that the nature of the medium and thus the development of the product makes it tremendously difficult to acquire good writers (who are qualified to write for videogames) and for their work to survive all of the developmental shifts or unforeseen obstacles.

Outside of a small handful of cases, it usually does not make business sense to hire a full time writer. The story has to be written at the beginning of development so that the other departments know what levels need to be modelled, what the systems are going to be, etc. For most games, the writing can be done in a short amount of time. So if you only hire a writer to write fulltime, then he finishes his work in the first few months of development and then does nothing. But contracting good writers does not work either, because there are regular changes during development which require more writing to be done, and it is logistically too much of a hassle to keep having to go back to the writer you contracted and work out how you are going to pay him this time, etc.

Lastly, videogame companies have taken losses due to hiring a "professional writer" like a novelist or movie script writer, only for that person to produce something that is completely illsuited for a videogame medium and development. The writer really needs to not only play videogames, but also understand the tools and limitations and resources of the company producing the game.

Therefore, the solution is to appoint a dev team member to do the writing. They already know the gaming medium, know what the dev team and the engine and the tools are capable of, etc. And when they finish writing, they can go work on other things, and there is no hassle when you need to tell them that something has changed, go write new stuff.

It is only very recently with the advent of the live service visual novel, aka gacha games like Granblue Fantasy, Fate/Grand Order, Final Fantasy 14, etc, that is has become practicable to hire full time writers who only write and do nothing else. When you are pushing out a novel's length on a schedule of every 2 to 6 weeks, you now need people who only write fulltime. And often, multiple writers due to the sheer amount of text and output. Fortunately for Japanese games, the domestic box purchase visual novel and literature industries have died due to declining birthrates, leading to there being a lot of now unemployed actually skilled writers who have been vetted by writing competitions and novel awards and are now willing to try their hand at videogame writing. Hence why Japanese gachas and FF14 have become acclaimed for their writing.

This is not the case for other countries. China is now producing big budget gacha games that push out a novel's worth of story every 6 weeks, but the novel industry is still alive so there is not a lot of talent floating around willing to become glued to a videogame indefinitely. So you get writers like Shaoji who are amateurs, have not been vetted by award competitions and the editors of publishers, etc. And the West does not produce any games that pump out anywhere near a comparable amount of text in a regular basis. WoW, GW2, and TES only release new major content patches once every 5 months, and it contains a 15 minute to 1 hour long questline rather than something that might take an entire weekend if not longer.

Normies do not care about the quality of writing, though. As in the plot construction, motivations, pacing, etc. They only care if a movie has a sufficient amount of feel good moments. So slop like The Force Awakens or Zootopia 2 become lauded despite having writing that would get an F on a grade. Hollywood movies have sucked for almost thirty years (because the scriptwriters are paid minimum wage in the high cost of living Los Angeles area, and then what they produce is thrown into the woodchipper of several rewrites before it hit the big screen, having been diluted of everything that was unique about it) and it wasn't enough to cause the movie industry to change. Movie scripts written by AI won't change anything because we already at rock bottom.

Good writers haven't been writing movie scripts for a long time, and if they are still writing commercially then it's by selfpublishing their books on Amazon. But now the Amazon indiepub industry has been collapsing for a few years now, so maybe we'll see some now unemployed writers try their hand at games.

Very insightful post and a great read that does put some perspective on all of this. Thank you!

The lack of Naaru is my biggest flag for a much larger Light presence at some point. It is insane we haven't seen one outside of a 2 quest appearance and the one inside Alleria.

Exactly. Which is why Midnight should have included the Draenei for the Alliance counter-part to Quel Thalas.

Eversong, Gostlands and Zul'Aman for the horde. Silvermoon remains horde.
Azuremyst, Bloodmyst +1 for the Alliance. Give them the new capital city they've been building.

Have separate campaigns, no faction war but different perspectives to what is happening, come together for the max level campaign. Let the Horde camapign focus on Lor'Themar, Halduron, Liadrin and Rommath as protagonists, with help from other Horde heroes. Have Velen, Turalyon, Arathor and Umbric for the Alliance. With Alerria maybe being a bridge between the two campaigns.

Really would've made for an incredible expansion, at least concept wise. But the development team is agnostic to anything cool and grandiose nowadays and just seem focused on delivering middling content that is okay enough for the normies to keep subbing every 'major' patch.

[Lahis]

And 2. it is very odd to have a lot of in-engine cutscenes if they are not going to focus on the customizeable main character. That's the entire point of switching from pre-rendered to in-engine. FF14 got it right by having YOU - the character you customized - be the star of the show for 500+ hours, not making you be an extra standing in the back watching this other NPC who you are not playing as be the protagonist of the Worldsoul saga cutscenes.

Problem is they can't animate the player character. All he high quality cutscene models are custom models with custom animations. With player characters Blizzard is limited to lower quality assets and simple emotes because there are several billion customization combinations the PCs could have. They simply can't make high quality cutscene morph of every race, gender and face combination to use in cutscenes. Even for body animations the different shapes and sizes of PCs make it practically impossible to do custom cutscene animations that are not a hackjob of existing emote and combat animations.

Plus, Blizzard is allergic to give the PC a voice for cutscenes, despite voice acting existing for every PC race. So them being mute in the background is fine. If they were brought to forefront, we would have Pokémon Sun&Moon issue of mute PC staring blankly at the camera.

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Main problem with WoW's writing is that there is - and never has been - an unimpeachable dictator/writer in charge of WoW who takes the credit and the blame for everything, and definitively owns the product and everything that happens in it. WoW does not have a Sakaguuchi, a Kojima, a Yoko Taro, a Kondo, a Yoshida, a Miyazaki, etc, who is in control and is implementing his vision. Metzen was never that guy, not when he was expressing frustration at writing the Forsaken for WC3 and that the WoW dev team didn't "get" what he was setting up. Or when the devs shoved in Belves into the Horde for the Asian market, Or when Metzen didn't want playable Death Knights and was overruled. Or when the Mongrel Horde almost happened and WoD only happened because someone thought that powermetal orcs were cooler rather than for any overarching planned artistic story. WoW is designed by a literal committee of people tugging and pulling, each on their own page with their own vision, from the higher ups down to the quest designers. And it is a revolving door committee too. The ideas that earlier people set up are never followed up on in the way that was originally envisioned as the guy either gets promoted or leaves the company and new people fill his shoes.

Japan has stronger author culture, even in big productions like video games. There will always be single person, or a very small core group, whose vision the game will follow and rest of the production works to realize that vision.

In US games are made by committee like you said. And even worse, said committee's first priority is profit (as mandated by corporate law) instead of any kind of artistic vision. So they do what their analysts predict to be the most safe and profitable option.

[allegrian]

The in engine cutscenes are good. When Blizzard gives a hoot.

The thing is they are using all the high budget cinematic moments to show... characters talking and expressing their feelings. In the past, cinematics were for rule of cool moments of epicness that made you like characters for their baddassery. That was warcraft and that was made W3 and WoW's most iconic characters iconic.

[Nymrohd]

One design decision that seems to go under the radar is that I don't see a single world quest that rewards gold. Rep, Marl, Items. No gold anywhere. Taking an army of alts to clear out the world quests was the best option for everyone who was not an AH goblin for years now when they needed some gold.

[Limayria]

One design decision that seems to go under the radar is that I don't see a single world quest that rewards gold. Rep, Marl, Items. No gold anywhere. Taking an army of alts to clear out the world quests was the best option for everyone who was not an AH goblin for years now when they needed some gold.

Yeah it's kinda concerning but it might just be a thing being saved till season starts in hoping

[Sondrelk]

I imagine they saw how Resonance Crystals were so scarce for TWW considering how many you needed for Decor by the end, and just replaced most of the gold WQ rewards with those.

[Limayria]

I imagine they saw how Resonance Crystals were so scarce for TWW considering how many you needed for Decor by the end, and just replaced most of the gold WQ rewards with those.

idk how its so scare for ppl, you could level so many alts and just go claim the renow rewards lul

[Sondrelk]

idk how its so scare for ppl, you could level so many alts and just go claim the renow rewards lul

The Renown rewards for Crystals and such were once per account. Surprised you didn't realize that.

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Same with Voidlight Marl now. Once per account.

[Ersula]

The in engine cutscenes are good. When Blizzard gives a hoot.

Those scenes you used as example are not in-engine. Those are pre-rendered. Those are not actually the same models as the in-game ones. They use special "up-close" models that are higher resolution & have more face rigging. It's harder to tell the difference but the in-engine, live-rendered cutscenes are newer & harder to tell the difference, but can do things like include the player character.

For example Wrathgate used in-game models but was also pre-rendered. I believe the first truly in-engine, live-rendered cutscene that involved real camera work was the ones for the Night Elf Heritage Armor.

[Lahis]

Those scenes you used as example are not in-engine. Those are pre-rendered. Those are not actually the same models as the in-game ones. They use special "up-close" models that are higher resolution & have more face rigging. It's harder to tell the difference but the in-engine, live-rendered cutscenes are newer & harder to tell the difference, but can do things like include the player character.

All of those gifs are from in-engine cutscenes.

Yes they use special cinematic models, but all of them run real time, in engine.

[whoisqnx]

I am still hoping for a Draenei patch this expansion. Would be amazing opportunity to showcase their new city and how it would look with current graphics.

[extasy]

I am still hoping for a Draenei patch this expansion. Would be amazing opportunity to showcase their new city and how it would look with current graphics.

Yeah but we're getting more amani trolls instead.

[Hearthfinder]

I am still hoping for a Draenei patch this expansion. Would be amazing opportunity to showcase their new city and how it would look with current graphics.

A draenei patch would be awesome and totally consistent with the theme of the expansion. Velen seems oddly sidelined so far, sort of acting as a prop near the Sunwell. This is his prophecy, isn't it?

Same with Anduin.

Maybe we'll go off world to meet those new Draenei in 12.2 and then introduce them to the new Draenei city in 12.2.5?

Velen ultimately sacrifices himself for a new dawn for his united people.

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BTW does anybody agree that the Army/Vanguard of the Light is totally being done a disservice with how they're portrayed in the game?

They're meant to be this nigh-immortal army of endless Paladins and Priests waging war against the armies of "hell", essentially. In the Midnight cinematic their arrival is portrayed as a very bombastic moment, with armies just marching in slowly and resolutely to face the enemy.

Then in-game they appear as a bunch of regular old Alliance soldiers, dying left and right and barely keeping it together.

It's the same thing as in Diablo IV, with cinematics portraying Inarius and his forces as an unstoppable tide of holy fury and steel. But then in-game they're just slaughtered left and right to no end.