Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Telogrus]

Also, quick question, since we saw Voidspawn mobs exit through the Darkwell in the Mythic phase of L'ura, would it make sense if, hypothetically, during a battle against a higher tier Naaru at the Sunwell (pre-Darkwell events ofc), we saw Lightspawn appear from it? Since Voidspawn appeared from L'ura and the Darkwell in thr Mythic phase?

Idk, that's just a hypothetical, ofc.

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Yes, but L'ura is a different case. Void Gods are Naaru that completely lose their light, and become beings of pure darkness. Whether they're as strong as a Void Lord or not is unknown, but assuming the Naaru are meant to be Void Lord equivalents (or at least, maybe the Prime Naaru are), I wouldn't be surprised.

But L'ura not only still had some light remaining, but her Void energies seemingly supplemented her Naaru form. It's strange, but it somehow works.

M’uru still had a Light core even after turning into Entropius though.

Also, if Void Gods can exist, then shouldn’t there also be Light Gods out there?

[Eldryth]

Accomplishing what? Genuine question. As someone with a lot of leveled characters this is just sort of a pointless "now you have to re-level them".

That line was admittedly a bit of wild speculation compared to the rest of the post, but my thought there was more about treating it as a true new starting point so that you'd create a character and go straight into the new era, instead of playing through older expansions tied to older storylines that are already wrapped up. And I was thinking of it in contrast to FFXIV's clumsy transition from their first saga, where Endwalker was supposed to wrap everything up and lead into a fresh start, but then you still had to play through all that content to reach that "fresh start" anyway.

Admittedly less of an issue here since you don't have a massive mandatory MSQ to go through, but I could see them doing it anyway to have to really push that this is a true fresh start with everyone starting on the same foot.


Besides, at that point we'll be at level 100, and I'd expect some degree of level squish at that point since they already did it once to avoid levels getting too bloated. And it'd be more or less the same amount of leveling either way- just look at how they paced Dragonflight. When it was relevant, it brought you from 60-70, now that same amount of content brings you from 10 to 70. Just a question of whether we're going from 10-60 or so, or 100-110; all in the new zones.

[Joshuaj]

Lightspawn + other Light Elementals, Guardians, Naaru, and Prime Naaru.

Just makes sense.

[Aucald]

None of the forces have many actual native creatures (Life aside). Disorder basically just has Felhounds, most other "demons" just seem to be from various places and twisted by Fel magic into being immortal and bound to the Twisting Nether.

Disorder also has the Annihilians, or Pit Lords, like Felhounds, appear to be (more or less) natural denizens of the Nether.

[Cheezits]

The setup is there for both Light-morphed creatures (ala a lot of the Legion being corrupted into Demons) and natural Light creatures. I quite like how TWW/Midnight expanded the Void roster (both alien monsters that live in the Void, and actual voidwalker extensions like the Domanaar and the lesser-domanaar that I don't know the name of it) so I would like to see what exists in the Light itself. The Ancient Kings, An'she, at least five god-like spirits that talked to whatsherface: there's a lot to play with. But they may just wait until the Arathi are involved as I'm sure the Emperor is tied to the realm or communicates with it (and Yrel, who may be Draenor's version of the Emperor come to think of it).

I'm certain there is a backdoor deal between the Titans and the Light and once the Titans go away and let Azeroth be post-TLT, the Light will be free to go crazy to preserve its singular timeline without anyone to protect Azeroth. That may have been the Lights end of the deal- if the Titans help the Light, the Light will preserve Azeroth instead of terraforming it.

[Vakir]

A former Blizzard quest designers opinion on the current story, found it on the WoW subreddit:

Sounds pretty spot on.

At least with Carmen Sandiego we had that epic opening with the animated version, or Rockapella with the gameshow.

We have no such enjoyment here in any capacity.

[JDBlou]

We got the final questline from Harandar btw

https://x.com/i/status/2042031799426281845

Pretty much confirms that Aln'hara and Azeroth are one and the same, ripped away and put somewhere else by a "powerful force not of this world", her being held captive against her will and the reason the Haranir Elders don't reveal this information is to prevent the Haranir leaving Harandar on a rampage tearing the world apart to find her; the exodus would end the Haranir.

[hattahat]

We got the final questline from Harandar btw

https://x.com/i/status/2042031799426281845

Pretty much confirms that Aln'hara and Azeroth are one and the same, ripped away and put somewhere else by a "powerful force not of this world", her being held captive against her will and the reason the Haranir Elders don't reveal this information is to prevent the Haranir leaving Harandar on a rampage tearing the world apart to find her; the exodus would end the Haranir.

It was kind of funny seeing people still in denial about things that were already made super clear during The War Within. Mainly, that the Titans tore away Azeroth's world-soul, imprisoned it in their Worldcore, and were in the process of Titanifying it. Plus, the obvious setup that a complication in their plans during Midnight is exactly what will bring them back as a direct threat.

The Titans have only been our "allies" up to this point because we were unknowingly assisting in their Titanification process. They are beings who will gladly become completely merciless the second they realize we won't conform to their strict vision of Order.

[JDBlou]

It was kind of funny seeing people still in denial about things that were already made super clear during The War Within. Mainly, that the Titans tore away Azeroth's world-soul, imprisoned it in their Worldcore, and were in the process of Titanifying it. Plus, the obvious setup that a complication in their plans during Midnight is exactly what will bring them back as a direct threat.

The Titans have only been our "allies" up to this point because we were unknowingly assisting in their Titanification process. They are beings who will gladly become completely merciless the second they realize we won't conform to their strict vision of Order.

You mean to tell me the guys who built a planet-wide extinction laser into their design might not have the best interests of the mortals on the planets at heart?

The same guys in charge of the laser are the ones deciding the limits of deviation from their design before the laser becomes necessary?

Couldn't be them. No way. Not those guys.

[SaintBigfoot]

*Thinks about how Tauren are meant to be importsnt for TLT*

Please… Blizzard, please I have so little faith… but centering the Tauren/Taunka as the main force fighting against the Titans to defend the Earth Mother would water my crops for years. Involve the Sunwalkers, any genuine hint of An’she beyond the blurbs in the outpost. *Please*

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Guys, I don't think our reunion with the Pantheon of Order is a happy one... Just a hunch though.

[Count Zero]

I wonder how long we will be in the "Titans are evil" era before moving on to the "no cosmic forces are good or evil, we're all just ants to them" era.

Assuming the goal is indeed to wrap up existing plotlines by the end of the Worldsoul Saga, that would mean speedrunning all of that - including Light and Life - during Midnight and TLT. I mean technically we are only just on the precipice of the "Titans are evil" era.

Unless the next chapter of WoW is an inversion of this one, where the Titans are the over-arching antagonists for 12 expansions.

[Cheezits]

I wonder how long we will be in the "Titans are evil" era before moving on to the "no cosmic forces are good or evil, we're all just ants to them" era.

Assuming the goal is indeed to wrap up existing plotlines by the end of the Worldsoul Saga, that would mean speedrunning all of that - including Light and Life - during Midnight and TLT. I mean technically we are only just on the precipice of the "Titans are evil" era.

Unless the next chapter of WoW is an inversion of this one, where the Titans are the over-arching antagonists for 12 expansions.

I don't think we're getting "Titans are evil". I think that was the Danuser message, or something close. Old Tyr was definitely kinda evil, Launch DF spells it out, as does the book subtly foreshadowing he was morphing drakes. If the original plot idea was Tyr comes back but is factory reset, we would've gotten more of that.

I'm guessing Metzen's approach is going to be more reasonable. We have some hints that Azeroth's imprisonment may have been to heal her. And at least some of the Titans probably didn't want to make her a Titan- and that will probably be a big part of the TLT story as well. Aman'thul may be our bad guy... but maybe not. How much of it is the deal with the Light? Odyn is an asshole, but I'm not sure any of the Titans will be particularly villainous. There's enough there to point towards Azeroth's "imprisonment" being as much to heal her as it is to contain her, especially if you buy into the theory she was hurt by the Elun'ahir yank.

Post-DF rewrite, Tyr comes back as the nice guy the Aspects remember. I think in the current canon he genuinely changed by loving Azeroth and its peoples, like Archaedas did, and he'll have to come to terms with siding with Azeroth over the Titans and their goals in TLT.

By the way, if none of this is the current plan for TLT... Blizz devs, you're free to PM me.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I mean, the entire plot revolves around a imprisoned woman and her liberation while the person who wants to eat her is essentially assumed to have been traumatized and also lost her self determination only to claw it back to the point of being at the cusp of ultimate victory in the Warcraft Universe.

I meaaaann, I don't think Metzen is real. I think Metzen was a salesman and at the end of the day he did that job splendidly. Everything seems to follow Steve Danusers original vision for BFA, Shadowlands and now the World Soul Saga with his will running through that we're going to get a big reset of everything for the pursuit of a comfy blanket fortress Warcraft. (I jest, I jest.)

[Cheezits]

I mean, the entire plot revolves around a imprisoned woman and her liberation while the person who wants to eat her is essentially assumed to have been traumatized and also lost her self determination only to claw it back to the point of being at the cusp of ultimate victory in the Warcraft Universe.

I meaaaann, I don't think Metzen is real. I think Metzen was a salesman and at the end of the day he did that job splendidly. Everything seems to follow Steve Danusers original vision for BFA, Shadowlands and now the World Soul Saga with his will running through that we're going to get a big reset of everything for the pursuit of a comfy blanket fortress Warcraft.

I do not think Xal was in the original draft of DF at all. Everything points to Tyr being the surprise baddy we chase to the Worldsoul in TWW.

Though I do like the concept that Xal was a wronged holy woman, yet turned into a monster beyond redemption. Likely out of sheer spite. Even Bad Sylvanas was onto something while Xal is just cruel. Not even Magatha is that petty.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

*Thinks about how Tauren are meant to be importsnt for TLT*

Please… Blizzard, please I have so little faith… but centering the Tauren/Taunka as the main force fighting against the Titans to defend the Earth Mother would water my crops for years. Involve the Sunwalkers, any genuine hint of An’she beyond the blurbs in the outpost. *Please*

Look at what happened for the past decade whenever modern Blizzard looks at a race. Night Elves. Worgen. Blood Elves. Being forgotten is a blessing at this point. It might be better if they just give us Sunwalker trading post gear and then never involve us in the main story to ruin us.

[Jastall]

Were those same "voices constantly fighting for plot and pacing" also silent in Wrath and Cata when Arthas and Deathwing were doing this exact same shit? This isn't a current story issue, it's shit that has always been a glaring problem with WoW's narratives.

One would hope that in 20 years things would have improved, but you're right yeah. Illidan showed up for a cinematic and like two (?) questlines in TBC but otherwise skulked in his temple. Arthas kept going on about how he'll get us next time like a literal cartoon villain and they "fixed" that by contriving some stupid plan about how he let us tore through his entire army on purpose all along. Deathwing barely showed up despite having the capacity to destroy the world and we spent the entire expansion fighting one Twilight's Hammer stooge after another, and that was after the max-level content completely ditched the faction war aspect of the rest of the expansion.

To be fair, sometimes the villain has been more active, like with Garrosh in Mists, Sylvanas in BFA, the Jailer in Shadowlands, or the Incarnates as a group in Dragonflight. But none of those villains were very well received, to put it mildly.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Personally, I feel like there's a difference between the fact that both Wrath and Cata the structure is that the box art villain is literally killed in the endpoint of the expansion. Again, structurally our past structures alleviated a lot of the problems with our rushed pacing and speedy deliveries.

Of course, we reduced to 2 Major Patches now and we dump the concepts of the expansion into the Base storyline of the expansion, then we stop the entire storyline to have a Side Plot gone through before we return to finish the outcomes of the Base Storyline. Which makes the pain points even more visible.

Again, I just think the older model was better in this regard because at the end of the day there's a line that Goes A to B to C to D. Now we go A then we stop and go sideways then the arrow gets back on to B in the end. Its just very uncomfy.

Look at what happened for the past decade whenever modern Blizzard looks at a race. Night Elves. Worgen. Blood Elves. Being forgotten is a blessing at this point. It might be better if they just give us Sunwalker trading post gear and then never involve us in the main story to ruin us.

Baine sitting was a message to the players that he was not only protesting but sending a clear message that you don't want them to write Taurens afterwards. It just makes sense in retrospect.

[Count Zero]

I don't think we're getting "Titans are evil". I think that was the Danuser message, or something close. Old Tyr was definitely kinda evil, Launch DF spells it out, as does the book subtly foreshadowing he was morphing drakes. If the original plot idea was Tyr comes back but is factory reset, we would've gotten more of that.

I'm guessing Metzen's approach is going to be more reasonable. We have some hints that Azeroth's imprisonment may have been to heal her. And at least some of the Titans probably didn't want to make her a Titan- and that will probably be a big part of the TLT story as well. Aman'thul may be our bad guy... but maybe not. How much of it is the deal with the Light? Odyn is an asshole, but I'm not sure any of the Titans will be particularly villainous. There's enough there to point towards Azeroth's "imprisonment" being as much to heal her as it is to contain her, especially if you buy into the theory she was hurt by the Elun'ahir yank.

Post-DF rewrite, Tyr comes back as the nice guy the Aspects remember. I think in the current canon he genuinely changed by loving Azeroth and its peoples, like Archaedas did, and he'll have to come to terms with siding with Azeroth over the Titans and their goals in TLT.

By the way, if none of this is the current plan for TLT... Blizz devs, you're free to PM me.

Titan civil war is definitely the more intriguing path, and also probably a cleaner transition to the next era than speedrunning their full villain arc.

[Thomir]

Look at what happened for the past decade whenever modern Blizzard looks at a race. Night Elves. Worgen. Blood Elves. Being forgotten is a blessing at this point. It might be better if they just give us Sunwalker trading post gear and then never involve us in the main story to ruin us.

They did well by Gnomes and Goblins in their respective patches. Mechagon was the highlight of 8.2.