Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nymrohd]

Play a human paladin, yes it is boring but somehow you ALWAYS feel relevant to the Warcraft story

[Khaza-R]

What would classic+ even be? How would it differ from SoD?

I'd personally like modern graphics and combat in the classic setting, but that'd piss off the classic players. A WoW 2 sounds like a better idea in every way.

I somewhat think the latest Hearthstone expansion is a tease of it. Weirdly enough, its the Cataclysm. But not our Cataclysm (2010), an alternative version of it. The exact story ramifications have yet to be seen. But it is curious there is a Pandaria expansion teased for HS at the end of this year

So what do I think Classic+ will be? Pretty much Vanilla -> WotLK unchanged. Then it ventures into alternative Cata, MoP, etc. I don't expect complete re-writes of these expansions. Rather each one will get its own SoD treatment with new dungeons, raids, lore, and keeping gameplay more in line with classic, without the massive changes that occurred in retail.

[Hearthfinder]

Play a human paladin, yes it is boring but somehow you ALWAYS feel relevant to the Warcraft story

I do, and there's some truth to that (except it sucks when the questing always asks you to do very shady stuff without hesitation).

But I still miss so much of what we had, from Alliance content to all the Legion stuff. Even Covenants provided something.

[Wyrt]

I don't think I ever felt as disconnected from my character as when my Horde paladin was forced to be part of the fucking Silver Hand.

[allegrian]

What would classic+ even be? How would it differ from SoD?

I'd personally like modern graphics and combat in the classic setting, but that'd piss off the classic players. A WoW 2 sounds like a better idea in every way.

I think classic + will be basically SoD with some more dev resources (SoD was on a shoestring budget even if creating new raids) and long-term planning instead of a "season" format they know will be abandoned in 1-2 years. SoD (and now "classic +") director basically said that SoD was his absolute favourite version of wow, so I doubt he'll deviate too much from that.

But I fully expect basically most of the SoD class design, early low level raid design and "retailification" of the grind via dailies which give you many gold or dungeon tokens to buy catch up gear/tier 0.

My biggest wishes for it besides what I expect are:
- No world buffs (at least not working in instances)
- New Zones
- New playable races
- Shaman/Paladin in all factions.
- Finished classic questlines keeping the classic tone and style with satisfying endings.

[Hearthfinder]

I don't think I ever felt as disconnected from my character as when my Horde paladin was forced to be part of the fucking Silver Hand.

Assuming you mean a Blood Elf? Ironically they fit a lot better within the Silver Hand than within the Horde, thematically, culturally, and historically.

It's interesting how effectively Blizzard have been able to make Horde players think that Blood Elves don't fit in with other sophisticated cultures over the past two decades, and that they should instead mingle with undead in sewers or cows on the prairie.

[Jaggler]

Maybe retail WoW's story is ending after TLT, with the story focus shifting over to "Classic+" where they'll get another chance to tell Azeroth's story but better?

I don't see how that could work out. You can't have two versions of World of Warcraft running with different stories, that's just not feasible in any way. I can only see a continuation of what they've done with SoD: these "found photographs" moments, but i don't see them altering the course of the story in a major way.

[Nymrohd]

Assuming you mean a Blood Elf? Ironically they fit a lot better within the Silver Hand than within the Horde, thematically, culturally, and historically.

It's interesting how effectively Blizzard have been able to make Horde players think that Blood Elves don't fit in with other sophisticated cultures over the past two decades, and that they should instead mingle with undead in sewers or cows on the prairie.

I was a tauren paladin up to Legion but my Horde guild fell apart in WoD while the Alliance guild my alt raided in was still alive so I made the switch then. Happy I did, Legion and BfA as a tauren paladin would have been incongruous.

[Dracullus]

What would classic+ even be? How would it differ from SoD?

I'd personally like modern graphics and combat in the classic setting, but that'd piss off the classic players. A WoW 2 sounds like a better idea in every way.

Of course it will be iteration of SoD, but hopefully much bigger and focused on leveling, not endgame. SoD only added/reworked new dungeons, raids and some open world content, I think now we should get new zones, especially for levels 25-45.

Some Classic people expect 'pernament home' for them and I honestly have no idea how they picture it after we will reach max level. Let's face it, Classic way is starting fresh again and again like Diablo/PoE. Their whole effort should be focused how to make leveling more fun and interesting with each iteration, not making subpar retail.

[allegrian]

Assuming you mean a Blood Elf? Ironically they fit a lot better within the Silver Hand than within the Horde, thematically, culturally, and historically.

It's interesting how effectively Blizzard have been able to make Horde players think that Blood Elves don't fit in with other sophisticated cultures over the past two decades, and that they should instead mingle with undead in sewers or cows on the prairie.

It's basically the tribalistic mind of long-term BE mains telling them they're totally horde, loktar ogar and so on.

Horde-exclusive questing tries to make the player very patriotic and horde-fanatic, to fascist levels even during Garrosh and Sylvannas era. So Blood Elf players, even if they really don't fit, are fed with all that questing, lore and vibes. BE as a faction and their zones have not been featured since TBC outside some small pockets during faction wars, so their worldbuilding was basically on ice since TBC, where their starting zones and cities didn't even reflect the TBC ending when they became "light elves" insted of "fel/edgy elves".

Now that we go back to their zones in midnight, the fact that they really don't fit in the horde becomes finally obvious for everyone, and only those BE mains blinded by the horde patriotism are surprised.

[Nymrohd]

Of course it will be iteration of SoD, but hopefully much bigger and focused on leveling, not endgame. SoD only added/reworked new dungeons, raids and some open world content, I think now we should get new zones, especially for levels 25-45.

Some Classic people expect 'pernament home' for them and I honestly have no idea how they picture it after we will reach max level. Let's face it, Classic way is starting fresh again and again like Diablo/PoE. Their whole effort should be focused how to make leveling more fun and interesting with each iteration, not making subpar retail.

Yup, what Classic needs imo is a way to cut down on zones everyone ends up doing. If I can do most of my leveling on different races with few duplicate zones, that's the ideal.
If they do add new zones, I hope they consider underground zones. Maraudon, Hyjal Barrows, the Oracle Caves, a big silithid hive zone below South Kalimdor, Blackrock Depths. Obviously not happening but a man can dream.

[allegrian]

I don't think I ever felt as disconnected from my character as when my Horde paladin was forced to be part of the fucking Silver Hand.

What about horde druids or paladins doing scourge stuff for sylvannas in BFA? And you know, the teldrassil stuff.

[Hearthfinder]

I don't see how that could work out. You can't have two versions of World of Warcraft running with different stories, that's just not feasible in any way. I can only see a continuation of what they've done with SoD: these "found photographs" moments, but i don't see them altering the course of the story in a major way.

? That's already what we expect to happen with Classic+. The only difference here would be that the retail story gets a soft reboot to open up new possibilities again.

- - - Updated - - -

I was a tauren paladin up to Legion but my Horde guild fell apart in WoD while the Alliance guild my alt raided in was still alive so I made the switch then. Happy I did, Legion and BfA as a tauren paladin would have been incongruous.

Until recently with new An'she mentions coming into the game, every Horde paladin race was basically a meme anyway. Except for Blood Elves, which has other issues going on.

- - - Updated - - -

It's basically the tribalistic mind of long-term BE mains telling them they're totally horde, loktar ogar and so on.

Horde-exclusive questing tries to make the player very patriotic and horde-fanatic, to fascist levels even during Garrosh and Sylvannas era. So Blood Elf players, even if they really don't fit, are fed with all that questing, lore and vibes. BE as a faction and their zones have not been featured since TBC outside some small pockets during faction wars, so their worldbuilding was basically on ice since TBC, where their starting zones and cities didn't even reflect the TBC ending when they became "light elves" insted of "fel/edgy elves".

Now that we go back to their zones in midnight, the fact that they really don't fit in the horde becomes finally obvious for everyone, and only those BE mains blinded by the horde patriotism are surprised.

True but it's totally different now because Blizzard forced another elven race into the Horde so the regent had somebody to marry.

[Nymrohd]

?
Until recently with new An'she mentions coming into the game, every Horde paladin race was basically a meme anyway. Except for Blood Elves, which has other issues going on.

Yes but a Tauren Tankadin with size buffs actually looks like someone who can tank a dragon.

[Hearthfinder]

Yes but a Tauren Tankadin with size buffs actually looks like someone who can tank a dragon.

I might even roll one once the new sets arrive, it'll look amazing.

[Nymrohd]

At this point the Horde has a bigger population of noble races from ancient civilizations (blood elves, nightborne, zandalari trolls) than everything else.

[Limayria]

Assuming you mean a Blood Elf? Ironically they fit a lot better within the Silver Hand than within the Horde, thematically, culturally, and historically.

It's interesting how effectively Blizzard have been able to make Horde players think that Blood Elves don't fit in with other sophisticated cultures over the past two decades, and that they should instead mingle with undead in sewers or cows on the prairie.

I mean my blood elf paladin burned down a silver hand chapel to join the blood knights so it's a lil awkward joining the silver hand lul


It's also strange seeing the blood elves presented as such a strongly light aligned culture when I don't think we've ever seen a thalassian religious building

[Enrif]

It's basically the tribalistic mind of long-term BE mains telling them they're totally horde, loktar ogar and so on.

Horde-exclusive questing tries to make the player very patriotic and horde-fanatic, to fascist levels even during Garrosh and Sylvannas era. So Blood Elf players, even if they really don't fit, are fed with all that questing, lore and vibes. BE as a faction and their zones have not been featured since TBC outside some small pockets during faction wars, so their worldbuilding was basically on ice since TBC, where their starting zones and cities didn't even reflect the TBC ending when they became "light elves" insted of "fel/edgy elves".

Now that we go back to their zones in midnight, the fact that they really don't fit in the horde becomes finally obvious for everyone, and only those BE mains blinded by the horde patriotism are surprised.

this summs it nicely up. It is baffling seeing people play a blood elf, and unironically think they are the "zugzug, lok tar ogar" of the horde. And it really shows how many players play blood elves on the horde just for the look of the blood elves, and not the values of the horde.

I still think the blood elves were the biggest disservice to the themes and vibe of the horde, especially after TBC ended. During TBC, at the start? yeah, maybe. but after TBC ended, no longer.

Is this why all the people decry "where is the horde?" even though we are in a horde city, in a horde zone and in the zone of a former member of the horde?

[Darkarath]

Why some people believe that after WSS there will be some major shifts or reworks?
If devs planing like for 20 years or so - unless WoW become ftp - plan unlike to change: 1 expansion every 1.5-2 years, 3-4 seasons with raids, m+, pvp and delves. Some openworld activities, shit-level grand story with ok side quests, maybe some customization options. Maybe revamp of some old zones (for Alliance), killing some Horde characters. Elves and humans everywhere. Jaina, Thrall, Sylvanas, Anduin.

As I said in my previous post WoW will be WoW. But I think that after TLT a change akin to what we saw from SL to DF but bigger is a given. Some points that I see changing in one way or another:

- Obviously zones and story. More revamps are coming (not necessarily in 14.0 but more than likely) and a shift from this Cosmic dross to more grounded stories (at least for two expansions until they cannot help themselves to bring the Legion back, and inevitably more Cosmic dross alongside them).

- Say goodbye to the current talent system and (thakfully) to Hero Talents. They might go back to MoP talent system (probably the most sustainable option provided that Blizzard update them instead of completely abandon them like they did before). My favourite option, although I doubt that Blizzard has the balls to do it, is the removal of talents. Keep current classes and specs. They have their skills and that's it. Most players don't interact that much with talents (or with their skills since the addition of the Single-Button Assistant) anyways. Also I think that with such system it would be easier to add more classes and specs for current classes. Seeing Blizzard trying to reinvent the wheel every expansion with systems like Artifact Weapons, Azerite, Hero Talents... has become painful.

- I think that dungeons and raids will stay as they are but I can see a WoW were most content is done in such a way that you can complete it no matter how many DPS, Healers or Tanks you bring. So role-agnostic content but expanded to other areas beyond Delves. IMO Delves are the present and future of WoW and we'll see more resources pour into them.

- Obviously, a focus on customization. Not only regarding our races, but probably classes. This might expand to skills. What we have seen with Devourer DH will be expanded to other classes and specs.

- A revision of the game difficulties and systems in general. We have talked a lot about this, but again, WoW needs new players. It's a VERY complicated and overwhelming game. The new leveling experience has solved nothing. There are still hundreds of things that are not properly explained. This is part of the reason why I think that the WoW after TLT could be a new version of WoW. They can build a proper tutorial for that new experience, and the world would not be that big if we get a new map. Going back to the 25 years of content would be optional. Yes, I know that is optional now, but the simple fact that new players see all that is overwhelming. A more focused and new experience could help, I believe.

- WoW becoming truly account-wide, including professions, quests, followers... honestly, practically everything except gear, is not something that should happen after TLT, is something that should have happened years ago.

- Also, this is not related with what WoW will become after TLT, but, make less currencies ¡¡ What the fuck are they thinking? If a veteran player like myself roll his eyes every time he sees all that shit, I don't want to think what a new player would think.

[Khaza-R]

At this point the Horde has a bigger population of noble races from ancient civilizations (blood elves, nightborne, zandalari trolls) than everything else.

Populations are always weird.

Tauren were basically almost hunted to extinction by the centaur. That tracks given how few and far between we see them in lore.

Blood Elves were massacred by the Scourge, then depleted the 10% of the their remaining population in a civil war in TBC. By all rights they should be the least populous race and basically narrowly evading extinction. They certainly should of never have been able to rebuild Silvermoon. It actually would of been a much more interesting elf reunification story if they needed the other elves just prop Silvermoon up and it turned into a new, metropolitan elf mecca because their race is vanishing.