Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Cheezits]

Vyranoth feels like an anti-Sylvanas the dev team wanted to do, to show that they can write a female antagonist who isn't stupid/corrupted/manipulated by her peers and can turn to good without magic.

[Nymrohd]

Yes, and we still don't know HOW are they gonna do it. Also, Iridikron seems to be playing his own game.

Or why they opposed that gift. it's clear there was some crucial event that turned Vyranoth against Alex but we probably will only find out what exactly happened in the Tyr storyline.

[Dracullus]

having only 2 major patches means dragonflight was another low effort expansion. don't care if we got 10 patches with 10 minutes of questlines in each of them. the content of this expansion has been underwhelming. losing a main patch would be the nail in the coffin for me.

Yep, 10.0.7 with zone and more story than 7.2, definitely 10 minutes story patch xD.

If DF ends on 10.2.5, it has 1 RAID less than MoP/Legion/BfA. And that is because in most of 4 raid expacs X.1 patch had size similar to 10.1.5+1.7. Instead you get more world content and actual dungeon rotation if you into dungeons. So less if you like raids, more if you like everything else.

[Nymrohd]

Vyranoth feels like an anti-Sylvanas the dev team wanted to do, to show that they can write a female antagonist who isn't stupid/corrupted/manipulated by her peers and can turn to good without magic.

The thing is, what is even good here? We don't exactly know what the Incarnates did during the initial war. Did they commit atrocities that caused the Aspects to turn on them or was it just a power struggle between ideologies

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

See, you're making a classic wow expansion mistake: The Last Major Patch of the last 3 expansions have all been things that should have been the premise of their own expansion, but then were shoved into the final patch: So The Harbinger attacking Azeroth is definitely the plot of the last raid tier. It's the consequences of that which will be the premise of 11.0

I sure love truncated A-plotline stories with clear pivots to the next product to consume for the sake of short term profit.

[Jaggler]

Or why they opposed that gift. it's clear there was some crucial event that turned Vyranoth against Alex but we probably will only find out what exactly happened in the Tyr storyline.

The crucial event is Alexstrasza siding with the Titans. They were literally turining their children into something else and we know that the Titans used their "gift" to make the Dragons more aligned with their ideals.

The thing is, what is even good here? We don't exactly know what the Incarnates did during the initial war. Did they commit atrocities that caused the Aspects to turn on them or was it just a power struggle between ideologies

They were imprisoned because they sided against the Dragonflights.

[Sondrelk]

WoD is weird in that it has two separate stories. On one hand we have the Iron Horde whose plans are clear to us from the start (build war machines, march through portal) and then we have Gul'dan who we follow throughout the expansion. His plans are unclear but they are unclear because even he has know idea what he is doing (we find that out in the short story when KJ is guiding him to the Tomb with him being blind to the plan). So it kind of works (and the end of WoD is a direct lead in to Legion in that way).

WoD is unique in that it actually pulls off the shifting in main antagonist. Though sadly through a now unavailable legendary quest.
It's all about the Iron Horde, but we do know that Gul'dan is skulking about, evidently undefeated. The 6.1 questline then shows us Gul'dan very specifically defeating Grom and converting his troops to his own, effectively usurping the role Grom had in the narrative.

[Santandame]

Why would you not just make the final megadungeon a raid though? You wouldnt really have time to make it into a M+ dungeon like you could with the earlier one, which seems to be the main point to catering to the M+ crowd. And you would be alienating the Mythic raid WF players who bring in free advertisement with their livestreams.

It could launch in a state in that it’s ready to be used in mythic+. A couple of weeks of it as normal mythic and then it can be ran as keys.

You said yourself that mythic+ is the lifeblood of the game. Raiding isn’t the be all end all anymore. Just because expansions have traditionally ended with a raid doesn’t mean they always should. Times change and all that. Blizzard might be looking at which way the winds blowing.

I don’t think their mindset should be whether they’ll alienate the mythic raiders either. We’ve had expansions end with a .2 patch and it hadn’t alienated those WF raiders yet. Just end the expansion with .2.5, have a new mega dungeon, a new season, fated raids and story quests, maybe a solo scenario like mage tower. I don’t see the issue with that. It’ll keep us tided over until the next expansion.

Raiding doesn’t need to be the be all end all. Mythic+ is more popular for a reason.

[Nymrohd]

actual dungeon rotation if you into dungeons.

That's not more content though.
What is more content is the story in the smaller patches and the events.
I've shared my opinion on the events. If they had a better reward structure maybe they'd be more appealing to me but as they are now, I see them as low effort fast food content.
On the story, there absolutely is more story delivery in DF. I don't exactly think the story being delivered has meat but what is told is told in an entertaining way, with decent characters and voice acting and a decent mix of heartwarming, camp and epic moments. But the actual story I find mediocre at best. All show but no substance.

[Darkarath]

How are Vyranoth's justifications weak when she is literally abiding by her own ideals. Staying with Fyrakk would be the actual bad writing in this case.

Because if she does not like what Fyrakk is doing, you just not change sides in a second. You have the possibility of, surprise surprise, keep fighting for your ideals without running to join the enemy. Do your own thing, not go and cry to Alextrasza, the one responsible for messing up your children, responsible for 20.000 years of your imprisonment, and the one responsible for killing your beloved sister like a month ago.

Pathetic.

[Ersula]

Vyranoth feels like an anti-Sylvanas the dev team wanted to do, to show that they can write a female antagonist who isn't stupid/corrupted/manipulated by her peers and can turn to good without magic.

Alexstrasa represents everything she was against and it takes very little convincing for her to join her. So its the same only Alex is the Jailer in this situation.

Though I don't hate this development simply because Helping Alexstrasa doesn't break Vyranoth's moral code once she realize the Titans are not actually coming back ever.

[Nymrohd]

The crucial event is Alexstrasza siding with the Titans. They were literally turining their children into something else and we know that the Titans used their "gift" to make the Dragons more aligned with their ideals.



They were imprisoned because they sided against the Dragonflights.

Tautologies are not explanations. You are saying "They were punished because they broke the law" without saying what law was broken or how it was broken.
hey, it might be good enough for you. Cool and enjoy it. I find it lacking substance.

[Jaggler]

Because if she does not like what Fyrakk is doing, you just not change sides in a second. You have the possibility of, surprise surprise, keep fighting for your ideals without running to join the enemy. Do your own thing, not go and cry to Alextrasza, the one responsible for messing up your children, responsible for 20.000 years of your imprisonment, and the one responsible for killing your beloved sister like a month ago.

Pathetic.

What is she gonna do? Fight alone against Fyrakk who has been empowered by the Shadowflame? She would either die against Fyrakk or the Dragonflights.

Tautologies are not explanations. You are saying "They were punished because they broke the law" without saying what law was broken or how it was broken.
hey, it might be good enough for you. Cool and enjoy it. I find it lacking substance.

I don't know what's so hard to understand in this case. They were imprisoned by Titan forces because they fought against titan forces.

[Nymrohd]

WoD is unique in that it actually pulls off the shifting in main antagonist. Though sadly through a now unavailable legendary quest.
It's all about the Iron Horde, but we do know that Gul'dan is skulking about, evidently undefeated. The 6.1 questline then shows us Gul'dan very specifically defeating Grom and converting his troops to his own, effectively usurping the role Grom had in the narrative.

Oh I think WoD actually did what it set out to do well. It just lacked content and what it did set out to do was a mess (but one that I can easily ignore). Honestly the only part of WoD's story that I did not find entertaining was the very end.

[Sondrelk]

They were imprisoned because they sided against the Dragonflights.

This is specifically the part we don't know much about though. What exactly sparked the war, and what made it so aggressive that the Titan Keepers got involved.
We know that Fyrakk and Vyranoth at least were in it for ideals, and that Iridikron was the Warmonger, so unless the story is suggesting that Iridikron manipulated them into going to war there is a vital bit of story missing.

The likely story based on the pieces we have so far is that the Titan Keepers took eggs from Fyrakk and Vyranoth, and that when they retaliated Tyr threw the aspects at them to cover his own actions. But we don't know for sure. Could be the Incarnates just decided to attack one day, could be Tyr decided to imprison them. Could be that the Aspects asked them to be aspects and they refused leading to escalating tensions. We just don't know.

[Reive]

Doing a biggest ever class/spec overhaul that kept them busy entire expansion is hardly low effort. But hey, peeps can't see past number patches.

"biggest class/spec overhaul"

you mean putting abilities we already had on a new tree without any thought put into it to the point where multiple reworks have been necessary through the expansion?

Dragonflight launched with no features (dragonriding is not big content). they had the duty of making major patches big and rich of content and so far it hasn't happened yet. now we're dealing with the potential loss of a third major patch (again). i wonder what have they done with the 200 extra people hired last year

Yep, 10.0.7 with zone and more story than 7.2, definitely 10 minutes story patch xD.

If DF ends on 10.2.5, it has 1 RAID less than MoP/Legion/BfA. And that is because in most of 4 raid expacs X.1 patch had size similar to 10.1.5+1.7. Instead you get more world content and actual dungeon rotation if you into dungeons. So less if you like raids, more if you like everything else.

10.0.7=useless new zone forgotten after 1 month
10.1.5= another reskinned legion assault
10.1.7= yet another reskinned legion assault

30 minutes of quests aren't content. or better, they are not enough to sustain a patch by themselves.

[Darkarath]

What is she gonna do? Fight alone against Fyrakk who has been empowered by the Shadowflame? She would either die against Fyrakk or the Dragonflights.



I don't know what's so hard to understand in this case. They were imprisoned by Titan forces because they fought against titan forces.

Let Fyrakk fight his own battles while you build your own without joining the enemy?

[Sondrelk]

It could launch in a state in that it’s ready to be used in mythic+. A couple of weeks of it as normal mythic and then it can be ran as keys.

You said yourself that mythic+ is the lifeblood of the game. Raiding isn’t the be all end all anymore. Just because expansions have traditionally ended with a raid doesn’t mean they always should. Times change and all that. Blizzard might be looking at which way the winds blowing.

I don’t think their mindset should be whether they’ll alienate the mythic raiders either. We’ve had expansions end with a .2 patch and it hadn’t alienated those WF raiders yet. Just end the expansion with .2.5, have a new mega dungeon, a new season, fated raids and story quests, maybe a solo scenario like mage tower. I don’t see the issue with that. It’ll keep us tided over until the next expansion.

Raiding doesn’t need to be the be all end all. Mythic+ is more popular for a reason.

So what should be happening according to this is that the M+ dungeon rotation only has 6 dungeons for a month or so while the Megadungeon gets to run it's course as a storytelling device that everyone, including the lowest of casuals can run. And only then do you make it a M+ dungeon?

Why not just have two extra dungeon taken from literally anywhere, and then also a raid for alternative gearing? As well as giving all the bonuses expected from a raid, like an AotC mount, raid armor sets, Glory Achievement, LFR, Mythic WF race, etc.

I mean, by this logic why have raids at all? Why not just make all future raids megadungeons? Surely that would be better then?

[Nymrohd]

It could launch in a state in that it’s ready to be used in mythic+. A couple of weeks of it as normal mythic and then it can be ran as keys.

You said yourself that mythic+ is the lifeblood of the game. Raiding isn’t the be all end all anymore. Just because expansions have traditionally ended with a raid doesn’t mean they always should. Times change and all that. Blizzard might be looking at which way the winds blowing.

I don’t think their mindset should be whether they’ll alienate the mythic raiders either. We’ve had expansions end with a .2 patch and it hadn’t alienated those WF raiders yet. Just end the expansion with .2.5, have a new mega dungeon, a new season, fated raids and story quests, maybe a solo scenario like mage tower. I don’t see the issue with that. It’ll keep us tided over until the next expansion.

Raiding doesn’t need to be the be all end all. Mythic+ is more popular for a reason.

Honestly, they should just bite the bullet and just tell the story in BOTH formats. Imo raids should be available as dungeons (and maybe use some of the dungeons as mini raids). Obviously the mechanics and encounters would work differently in the two formats but the assets can be shared. So have leveling dungeons and then have Megadungeons that also function as raids. Give everyone more content.

[Cheezits]

10.2 announcement will be VERY interesting. Maybe they'll explain its the last patch, maybe they'll clarify the future of patch models and what exactly is up with 11.0 (if they are being so transparent this year per Mike Ybara's nopirates).

Also I don't think shorter expansions have any connection to M+ at all, and if anything it may have to do with too much player-bleed from launch to final patch historically for expansions.

I'm half expecting a F2P announcement for 11.0.