Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Well Done Steak]

“In many ways, the titans will be the easiest to manipulate. Their singular goal is to impose structure upon everything they see. Show them a force that opposes their drive for Order, and they will be consumed by their urge to eradicate it. Their pantheon, so seemingly united in purpose, is vulnerable to fracturing.”

This one is pretty interesting right now. Basically, if anybody strays from the flock to do his or her own thing, they're the enemy.

This explains the Heretics, and it explains why Alexstrasza has always struggled to see the viewpoints of others, who do not share the Titans' vision. From Vyranoth and the other Incarnates, to the Drakonid rebels.

They're "good", but extremely inflexible and set in their ways. Anything which doesn't contribute to Order is the enemy.

That's why they wanted to order the chaotic Primal Azeroth as well as the Emerald Dream.

Now the Dragon Aspects, the Dream, and Azeroth are all slipping from their grasp.

I wonder if Tyr can make them change their views, and see a differenct perspective?

Tyr has always felt kind of independent imo. A bit like Inarius or Tyrael in Diablo. He shares the Titans' views but doesn't sit around and wait.

Vyranoth and the rebels have changed Alexstrasza, will she now convince Tyr that change is needed, and will he listen? Or will he see this as her betrayal, and turn against her?

Maybe Tyr initially lashes out but eventually comes to see our POV, and stands up to the Titans.

Titans appear, as vindictive Gods here to reclaim their "prize". The Void strikes.

As per Iri, void strikes first, then titans come.

11.0 is void

[Nymrohd]

For me the fact that they went ahead and created the Tyr's Guard precludes Tyr being a villain. You could absolutely show a heroic backstory and still make him a villain but when you end up introducing the Guard, what is then the point? Especially when you have a class whose lore is deeply tied to Tyr.
That said he doesn't have to be a friend either. He and Vyranoth could disagree strenuously, Alex takes her side, Tyr leaves for Ulduar and returns in a later (maybe the next) expansion alongside Odyn and the other Keepers, with them splitting in two groups and taking sides and Odyn getting the Villain role (while I'd expect Tyr, Mimiron and Freya to be on the other side)

[Lorgar Aurelian]

If 10.2 is the last major patch, that's how it may go to fill all the needed gaps.

Vyranoth, learning of Tyr's return, demands from him to cease the Titans' grip on the dragons (infusion of Order magic). Alexstrasza (and most likely the other Aspects) takes her side. Tyr, persuaded by his Guard, agrees.

He will either leave, with his followers being allowed to remain on the Dragon Isles, or will stay with them (much less likely).

And whatever remains in 10.2.7 will be used as a buildup for 11.0.

Why would they demand Tyr stop infusing dragons with order magic when that hasn’t happened for ten thousand years when the dragon isle were locked away?

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Especially when you have a class whose lore is deeply tied to Tyr.

There really isn’t a deep tie to Tyr in Paladins the whole of his contribution is that, they used the legend of him as a name for there order, they found his hammer in legion.

Pally’s developed wholly independent of Tyr and it was his guards who took after them instead of the other way round.

[Hitei]

Why would they demand Tyr stop infusing dragons with order magic when that hasn’t happened for ten thousand years when the dragon isle were locked away?

I assume the current thought is that once brought back he's just going to go right back to attempting to order things, chiefly the rest of the un-ordered proto-dragons.

[Pheraz]

I think Ion was a big fan of the last patch in BFA with the corruption of uldum and that panda zone. Speculating that I think 11.0 will feature a part revamp of EK and or kalimdor maybe it's that. Revamp but uh know the void attacks and the previous new things are about to be destroyed right away!!!
But this kind of stands the opposite to the idea with the light and yrel.
Oh god or they do some weird "mortals must bring balance between light and void" and we run around with fluffy little voidlings in the end @.@

[Woggmer]

For me the fact that they went ahead and created the Tyr's Guard precludes Tyr being a villain. You could absolutely show a heroic backstory and still make him a villain but when you end up introducing the Guard, what is then the point? Especially when you have a class whose lore is deeply tied to Tyr.
That said he doesn't have to be a friend either. He and Vyranoth could disagree strenuously, Alex takes her side, Tyr leaves for Ulduar and returns in a later (maybe the next) expansion alongside Odyn and the other Keepers, with them splitting in two groups and taking sides and Odyn getting the Villain role (while I'd expect Tyr, Mimiron and Freya to be on the other side)

To me, I had an epiphany... Maybe the only reason Tyr even experimented and induced the Order on the dragons isn't to control, but that if he didn't then Odyn would've destroyed all the dragons from existence because they wouldn't comply.

From that memory of Tyr we see, despite it being an illusion, Tyr has complete faith in the Aspects, so he isn't willing to go nuts if they go against him like Alexstraza with Vyranoth.

[Reive]

Thank god! https://x.com/algalon_ghost/status/1...750727910?s=20

if this is indeed classic+, i wonder what are the implications for retail. classic+ would basically be a reboot of the game. will wow end up split in 2 like runescape3 and osrs?

[ImEveryCliche]

could be true bru

[Raetary]

New Moonkin customization is honestly pretty cool.
https://twitter.com/keyboardturn/sta...220354/photo/1

The new posture and animation also make it finally look like the force of nature it's supposed to be, rather than looking like a lobotomized chicken.

[Super Dickmann]

Titans who?

Also: IT'S OVER @Super Dickmann

I'm on a coping dialysis machine. Surely, they're empowered before the end patch because they have to actually get to use their powers. THey won't do a Firelands rerun without Dragon Soul 2.0 and punt the end boss, Deathwing 2.0, to the next expansion. They won't waste the good will of their content cadence up to this point by having a year-long lobby.

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For me the fact that they went ahead and created the Tyr's Guard precludes Tyr being a villain. You could absolutely show a heroic backstory and still make him a villain but when you end up introducing the Guard, what is then the point? Especially when you have a class whose lore is deeply tied to Tyr.
That said he doesn't have to be a friend either. He and Vyranoth could disagree strenuously, Alex takes her side, Tyr leaves for Ulduar and returns in a later (maybe the next) expansion alongside Odyn and the other Keepers, with them splitting in two groups and taking sides and Odyn getting the Villain role (while I'd expect Tyr, Mimiron and Freya to be on the other side)

The speculation about Tyr being a baddie I don't buy for a moment. Not just because he's been framed endlessly as a positive character with the negative aspects of the Titans punted off to other characters (chiefly Odyn, who's haunt we attack in 10.2), but more importantly because especially in DF, there's no personal loss, physical injury, milennia-old grudge or fundamnetal disagreement in ideas that can't be resolved by shaking hands and agreeing to settle on a limp middle ground. Happened to Vyranoth, happened to the Infinites, will happen to Tyr, if that.

[Sondrelk]

I'm on a coping dialysis machine. Surely, they're empowered before the end patch because they have to actually get to use their powers. THey won't do a Firelands rerun without Dragon Soul 2.0 and punt the end boss, Deathwing 2.0, to the next expansion. They won't waste the good will of their content cadence up to this point by having a year-long lobby.

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The speculation about Tyr being a baddie I don't buy for a moment. Not just because he's been framed endlessly as a positive character with the negative aspects of the Titans punted off to other characters (chiefly Odyn, who's haunt we attack in 10.2), but more importantly because especially in DF, there's no personal loss, physical injury, milennia-old grudge or fundamnetal disagreement in ideas that can't be resolved by shaking hands and agreeing to settle on a limp middle ground. Happened to Vyranoth, happened to the Infinites, will happen to Tyr, if that.

I still think Tyr will be the baddie. Not because I'm not cynical about the storytelling chops of big storylines like these, but because it's a basic storytelling trope. Abdi f we can't trust basic storytelling then what can we trust?
Tyr being revived doesn't do anything for the plot beyond him being resurrected, so what is the point of spending so much time on it if he isn't actually going to do anything?

[Super Dickmann]

I still think Tyr will be the baddie. Not because I'm not cynical about the storytelling chops of big storylines like these, but because it's a basic storytelling trope. Abdi f we can't trust basic storytelling then what can we trust?
Tyr being revived doesn't do anything for the plot beyond him being resurrected, so what is the point of spending so much time on it if he isn't actually going to do anything?

Laughs in Bolvar. Also, it's pretty obvious that from a storytelling perspective the real Tyr is the friends we made along the way. The point of the quest is that after all this time spent trying to get him back up so he can empower and guide the aspects he'll pop up after they've already gone on their separate flight arcs (except Alex lol) and have been empowered by their collective efforts guarding the tree and go "Wow, you've grown so much more without my guidance, this is why I put you in charge and didn't leave it to robots like Odyn".

[Nymrohd]

I still think Tyr will be the baddie. Not because I'm not cynical about the storytelling chops of big storylines like these, but because it's a basic storytelling trope. Abdi f we can't trust basic storytelling then what can we trust?
Tyr being revived doesn't do anything for the plot beyond him being resurrected, so what is the point of spending so much time on it if he isn't actually going to do anything?

I mean, I am sure several people have explained what reviving Tyr does. It allows him to explain to the Aspects how to become Aspects again (that was how the expansion started after all) and it allows for Tyr to lead into a new arc related to Uldaz which should appear during this expansion (cause otherwise why the Hammer?)
But I don't expect to convince you cause you are married to that plot by this point.

[Super Dickmann]

I mean, I am sure several people have explained what reviving Tyr does. It allows him to explain to the Aspects how to become Aspects again (that was how the expansion started after all) and it allows for Tyr to lead into a new arc related to Uldaz which should appear during this expansion (cause otherwise why the Hammer?)

This is another point to bring home, bringing back Tyr as a prominent keeper gives a direct Titan representative for Iridikron to bounce off and a pivot from titans as B plot in a dragon expansion to dragons as a B plot to titans for the next expansion patch.

[Sondrelk]

Laughs in Bolvar. Also, it's pretty obvious that from a storytelling perspective the real Tyr is the friends we made along the way. The point of the quest is that after all this time spent trying to get him back up so he can empower and guide the aspects he'll pop up after they've already gone on their separate flight arcs (except Alex lol) and have been empowered by their collective efforts guarding the tree and go "Wow, you've grown so much more without my guidance, this is why I put you in charge and didn't leave it to robots like Odyn".

Can you imagine how boring that will be? All the foreshadowing thrown into the trash, and all the time spent on learning about Tyrs shady activities wasting away into nothing.

The possibility of no 10.3 is really throwing a wrench into the big questions surrounding DF.
I guess the only question is if it's a worse storytelling flub than BfA. Which is worse, an unfinished plot because the expansion ended, or an unfinished plot because the main villain left and we are stuck with a different plot for the finale?

[Nymrohd]

Can you imagine how boring that will be?

Nothing more boring than subverting expectation just so you can subvert expectations.

[Santandame]

Is it possible xal is gathering forces from multiple power sources?
Like xal is void
Azshara is arcane which is order (I get she was twisted by nzoth but she still uses arcane)
Iridikron is up in the air because earth is connected to life
If she has Denathrius that's death
She's just missing light and disorder which one can assume disorder was either from the sword or a future ally
Light can be lothraxion because we know he's still a traitor


What if the first ones locked away this mystical 7th force and a key holding all of the other cosmic forces is required to release it

Oh man, I really hope they don’t waste Denathrius and Azshara in a Sinister Six styled expansion. Both have the legs to be mult expansion spanning villains as well as the potential for our first enemy turned reluctant ally before they inevitably turn on us again, in the expansion’s Khadgar/Bolvar/Magni/Illidan/Alex role.

[Sondrelk]

Nothing more boring than subverting expectation just so you can subvert expectations.

"Haha, you thought this was going to lead somewhere, but in truth we have subverted your expectations! This plotpoint is actually entirely pointless and has not moved the plot at all!"

[Xilurm]

I imagine Tyr's activities and whatever Alexstrasza feels about them is Blizzard's new way of telling a story in a not so "black and white" way. And hopefully not because they want to go like:

Tyr: "I AM EVUL NOW! MWAHAHAHAHA...HA...HA..."

[Nymrohd]

This is another point to bring home, bringing back Tyr as a prominent keeper gives a direct Titan representative for Iridikron to bounce off and a pivot from titans as B plot in a dragon expansion to dragons as a B plot to titans for the next expansion patch.

On whether it has to be a patch I will say this
Not all major plot points need to be revealed in a raid.
WoW has done this forever. Until it stopped. The major plot of the 10.1.X cycle was not Aberrus but rather Dawn of the Infinite. The real impactful story of the patch was saving Nozdormu and finding out what Iridikron plans (well to some extent), not Sarkareth.
So perhaps there is a major plot point that happens AFTER Amirdrassil but within the 10.2.X cycle. It could happen in a dungeon we know nothing about till now. It could happen in some new game mode like Visions they are adding in 10.2.5 that uses Uldaz. What it needs imo is to be repeatable and accessible (have an easy mode)

On why it should be repeatable; because this is a game and you should be able to get some gameplay out of the story or else what is the use of it. The genre limits the story and it will have to be shallow regardless so it should at least provide us with some action. ESO does this stupid thing where you kill gods at the end of questlines and the story absolutely works but the gameplay experience is miserable because it is part of the quest and thus it cannot have difficulties and ends up being ridiculously simple.