Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Super Dickmann]

Can you imagine how boring that will be? All the foreshadowing thrown into the trash, and all the time spent on learning about Tyrs shady activities wasting away into nothing.

Yes, considerably boring. That said, the point of the questline is for the Aspects to retrace their steps and reintroduce Tyr into the MMO, and the constant delays to it as the Aspects nevertheless solve their problems of their own accord is to build up to a "The answer was in your heart all along" reveal. It's a pretty standard plot route.

As for whether it's worse than BFA in terms of plot structure, no, in as much as the plot is coherent. Things advance from Point A to Point B. If it outsources its conclusion to the next expansion then at least the steps to it have followed from each other. There's no "God of the depths in the naval expansion is fought on dry land in a volcano" tier of disconnect. There's no beats like NPCs archly talking about how the Bad Lady will burn Thunder Bluff, but it won't if they all stand together, only for the Bad Lady to never bring it up and the entire rebellion to form off-screen in a cutscene, then teleporting to the end point for another cutscene.

@Nymrohd

If it's not major content, i.e a replayable dungeon or raid, it's a cop out. Even if the plot turn comes after the raid and the raid isn't the ultimate resolution, the instance is the vehicle for it. You only need to look at BFA outsourcing its main plot beat to five quests and a fucking cinematic in an otherwise empty patch. The gameplay and reasoning of WoW means that major plot beats happen in raids. Aberrus is a good example of that. It doesn't move the Iridikron plot forward, he explicitly doesn't care about the place, but it clears the B-tier villains and is core to the conclusion of the Black Dragonflight story and Deathwing, which are mandatory aspects of a dragon expansion.

[Nymrohd]

Yes, considerably boring. That said, the point of the questline is for the Aspects to retrace their steps and reintroduce Tyr into the MMO, and the constant delays to it as the Aspects nevertheless solve their problems of their own accord is to build up to a "The answer was in your heart all along" reveal. It's a pretty standard plot route.

As for whether it's worse than BFA in terms of plot structure, no, in as much as the plot is coherent. Things advance from Point A to Point B. If it outsources its conclusion to the next expansion then at least the steps to it have followed from each other. There's no "God of the depths in the naval expansion is fought on dry land in a volcano" tier of disconnect.
@Nymrohd

If it's not major content, i.e a replayable dungeon or raid, then it remains a cop out. See also BFA outsourcing its main plot beat to five quests and a fucking cinematic in an otherwise empty patch. The gameplay and reasoning of WoW means that major plot beats happen in raids. Aberrus is a good example of that. It doesn't move the Iridikron plot forward, he explicitly doesn't care about the place, but it clears the B-tier villains and is core to the conclusion of the Black Dragonflight story and Deathwing, which are mandatory aspects of a dragon expansion.

I could see it being a dungeon but the thing is, would it only enter M+ for the fate season? seems weird. Maybe a mini-raid.
I will always want for them to create a new game mode that works solo or small group. They have done so many experiments in this format with Islands, Visions and Torghast and I just hope they can take all they learned from those and add something new. In the same way that M+ changed the way the game is played, instanced, repeatable, challenging and rewarding content that is available solo or for small groups is the next step. And if they are working for it for 11.0, they probably can demo it in 10.2.5

I think Iridikron's plot can be resolved later and that is not a problem. They told us what he is planning and we will find out when the Harbinger is close to getting that done because Magni will pop up and tell us. Could be now, could be in the next xpac, could be even later.

And I will always dream of BfA ending in Siege of Stormwind with both factions joining up to fight N'zoth at the Stormwind Docks.

[Sondrelk]

I could see it being a dungeon but the thing is, would it only enter M+ for the fate season? seems weird. Maybe a mini-raid.
I will always want for them to create a new game mode that works solo or small group. They have done so many experiments in this format with Islands, Visions and Torghast and I just hope they can take all they learned from those and add something new. In the same way that M+ changed the way the game is played, instanced, repeatable, challenging and rewarding content that is available solo or for small groups is the next step. And if they are working for it for 11.0, they probably can demo it in 10.2.5

I think Iridikron's plot can be resolved later and that is not a problem. They told us what he is planning and we will find out when the Harbinger is close to getting that done because Magni will pop up and tell us. Could be now, could be in the next xpac, could be even later.

And I will always dream of BfA ending in Siege of Stormwind with both factions joining up to fight N'zoth at the Stormwind Docks.

I think a mini-raid would be more likely than a dungeon, simply for the reasons of it being difficult to put into M+.


Personally I always dreamt of BfA ending in either Teldrassil or Stormwind. Teldrassil because Sylvanas could plan to resurrect all the dead Nelves to bolster her army (I even wrote a mockup for this raid way back). Stormwind because Sylvanas would make good on her promise to attack Stormwind for the Horde, and it would allow us to have resdure red Alliance heroes in the graveyard/cathedral, and all kinds of weird filler bosses in the Stormwind Vaults.

[Shadochi]

I think we will be getting a 10.3, 10.2 (even without context for conclusion of it) does in no way seem like an end patch for DF, and rather lackluster. I don't think they would be giving us a patch every 2 months this year just to cut out a major patch.

[Nymrohd]

I think we will be getting a 10.3, 10.2 (even without context for conclusion of it) does in no way seem like an end patch for DF, and rather lackluster. I don't think they would be giving us a patch every 2 months this year just to cut out a major patch.

It's just weird why they are so coy about confirming it will happen.

[Sondrelk]

I think we will be getting a 10.3, 10.2 (even without context for conclusion of it) does in no way seem like an end patch for DF, and rather lackluster. I don't think they would be giving us a patch every 2 months this year just to cut out a major patch.

I will definitely say that a 10.3 with a mini-raid would look much more favorable to the players than nothing, even if the taint of lacking a proper 10.3 will always hang over it.

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It's just weird why they are so coy about confirming it will happen.

Probably because promising a raid is a big commitment, and worse than not giving one is promising one that doesn't arrive.

If they are not doing one though then all kinds of bad press would spill out, and they would need a big positive announcement to drown it out, or better still overshadow it.
An expansion announcement is not enough. An expansion announcement with launch being put in late Summer is at least something. A world revamp expansion launching late summer would be enough to overshadow the lack of a proper 10.3 if they play their cards right.
None of these option can be done outside Blizzcon however, so no announcement on the lack of 10.3 can happen until then.

[Super Dickmann]

I think Iridikron's plot can be resolved later and that is not a problem. They told us what he is planning and we will find out when the Harbinger is close to getting that done because Magni will pop up and tell us. Could be now, could be in the next xpac, could be even later.

And I will always dream of BfA ending in Siege of Stormwind with both factions joining up to fight N'zoth at the Stormwind Docks.

A small raid would be a better choice. That door at the end of the re-done Uldaman seems made for it, but it doesn't seem like it'll be used and Vakthros we know is cut content for the original VoI. As for solo content, I'd not be surprised if they experimented with it. A sort of time gimmick to allow them to use the two decades of materials seemed like the most natural route to go with it and would be evergreen in updated, but they blew that chance, though the otherwise limp Infinite wrap-up could be used to justify that kind of game mode, Torghast-esque but with floors conceivably being anything.

Re: BFA, I agree with @Sondrelk at this, but with the caveat that N'zoth should come after and the raid should be a proper faction showdown, be it via mirrored end bosses, or a Dazar'alor style gimmick, and a wrap-up where N'zoth rises from the seas to kick off a committed Black Empire expansion. A burnt out husk of Teldrassil would also work, and only annoys me more retroactively seeing as how yet again the tree raid is barely on the tree.

[Nymrohd]

A small raid would be a better choice. That door at the end of the re-done Uldaman seems made for it, but it doesn't seem like it'll be used and Vakthros we know is cut content for the original VoI. As for solo content, I'd not be surprised if they experimented with it. A sort of time gimmick to allow them to use the two decades of materials seemed like the most natural route to go with it and would be evergreen in updated, but they blew that chance, though the otherwise limp Infinite wrap-up could be used to justify that kind of game mode, Torghast-esque but with floors conceivably being anything.

Re: BFA, I agree with @Sondrelk at this, but with the caveat that N'zoth should come after and the raid should be a proper faction showdown, be it via mirrored end bosses, or a Dazar'alor style gimmick, and a wrap-up where N'zoth rises from the seas to kick off a committed Black Empire expansion. A burnt out husk of Teldrassil would also work, and only annoys me more retroactively seeing as how yet again the tree raid is barely on the tree.

Yeah way I see it, BfA should have ended in a Dazar'alor style raid set in Stormwind. Step one we see how the Horde invades (3 boss wing) step 2 is Alliance defends (another 3 bosses) and then you end with N'zoth crashing the Horde's invasion. Sylvanas still yeets at the end abandoning the Horde at the docks since she got what she wanted (a lot of people dying) and we end up fighting N'zoth. Maybe Saurfang sacrifices himself or something to push him back. Next xpac, Black Empire which could be done so many different ways.

As for solo content, Cavern of Times is probably the best excuse to use for something like that. Alternatively we could just have scenarios back and work on that.

[Valysar]

Can't wait for the next week PTR build, want to see how the new mount looks like IG, we already have it but it's invisible ...

[Sondrelk]

Can't wait for the next week PTR build, want to see how the new mount looks like IG, we already have it but it's invisible ...

What mount? Is there a new mount collection mount?

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A small raid would be a better choice. That door at the end of the re-done Uldaman seems made for it, but it doesn't seem like it'll be used and Vakthros we know is cut content for the original VoI. As for solo content, I'd not be surprised if they experimented with it. A sort of time gimmick to allow them to use the two decades of materials seemed like the most natural route to go with it and would be evergreen in updated, but they blew that chance, though the otherwise limp Infinite wrap-up could be used to justify that kind of game mode, Torghast-esque but with floors conceivably being anything.

What would the new Roguelike scenario give as rewards though?
I have to wonder whether it's reasonable to design to beg in with as well. The more effort you put into it the better rewards you would have to get, which in turn means you would have to put more effort into maintaining it in future patches and expansions.

[Nymrohd]

I have to wonder whether it's reasonable to design to beg in with as well. The more effort you put into it the better rewards you would have to get, which in turn means you would have to put more effort into maintaining it in future patches and expansions.

They keep trying to make that type of content. They did the scenarios in MoP (which rewarded Valor so that gave them meaning back then) then with BfA we had Island Expeditions which were just cosmetics and Visions which rewarded very good gear but for very limited slots then we had Torghast which was originally meant to reward Vault progression, ended up being mandatory for legendaries and only in the end went for cosmetics. So they absolutely believe there is a point for that type of content to exist, they have just failed to create a good version of it so far.

Imo just make that content unlock a fourth row in the Vault and you are done with it. They already realized in 10.2 that they need to open up the Vault to more content.

[Valysar]

What mount? Is there a new mount collection mount?

Nah the Emerald dragonriding mount, the "made by a child" mount.

[Dracullus]

I think we will be getting a 10.3, 10.2 (even without context for conclusion of it) does in no way seem like an end patch for DF, and rather lackluster. I don't think they would be giving us a patch every 2 months this year just to cut out a major patch.

Like it or not, this is change of design, not cut content. Simply M+ is more important than raids nowadays, first time even in story (megadungeon is main plot, Aberrus is side mission). Amount of content and timeline of patches checks out, but 4th raid is replaced by fated season.

For example Wrath didn't have cut tier when they rehashed Naxxramas for first tier or MoP didn't have less patches because they did jack shit with dungeons after launch.

Also with so many patches content is spreaded, big ones are mostly about new zone and raid, so they can feel empty when you consider raid/zone as 'obvious' thing and only look for something else. With SL or even Legion structure 10.1 would have also megadungeon, time rifts and all that story content added last 4 months.

From rest of DF I expect 2 things: 1) seasons no longer than 6 months; 2) new patch every 2 months until start of ~4 month long Alpha/Beta.

They keep trying to make that type of content. They did the scenarios in MoP (which rewarded Valor so that gave them meaning back then) then with BfA we had Island Expeditions which were just cosmetics and Visions which rewarded very good gear but for very limited slots then we had Torghast which was originally meant to reward Vault progression, ended up being mandatory for legendaries and only in the end went for cosmetics. So they absolutely believe there is a point for that type of content to exist, they have just failed to create a good version of it so far.

Imo just make that content unlock a fourth row in the Vault and you are done with it. They already realized in 10.2 that they need to open up the Vault to more content.

Things like that are replaced by various world content added with every patch. What they are doing bad is ignoring this content after we move on to next patch, so we leave a trail of dead content, often group one. There should be incentive to do different content each day, for example today soup drops something extra, tomorrow hunts, after that time rift, etc.

[Lolites]

apparently cata classic has been datamined. do you think a world revamp for 11.0 is even more likely now?

https://twitter.com/keyboardturn/sta...72612898971687

i think those two have nothing to do with each other...
cata classic was datamined bcs its next in line, so its zero "evidence" either way... now if it was classic MOP that was datamined in its place, that would be something

[Raetary]

i think those two have nothing to do with each other...

Both would involve major world revamps.

Announcing cata alongside a new revamp expansion would be quite the marketing move.

[Reive]

i think those two have nothing to do with each other...
cata classic was datamined bcs its next in line, so its zero "evidence" either way... now if it was classic MOP that was datamined in its place, that would be something

well retail is basically cata+. having a "classic cata" makes no sense when the old world on retail is still stuck in 2009 lmao

[Catastrophy349]

7 weeks until Blizzcon (as of yesterday). We, the most dedicated of MMO-C forum replies, should have a watch party in discord for the entire event!

We can make predictions for what will be announced, then meet up in Valdrakken and sudoku.

[Pheraz]

7 weeks until Blizzcon (as of yesterday). We, the most dedicated of MMO-C forum replies, should have a watch party in discord for the entire event!

We can make predictions for what will be announced, then meet up in Valdrakken and sudoku.

Nice idea. I'm on EU though

[Raetary]

7 weeks until Blizzcon (as of yesterday).

Choo Choo!

[Sondrelk]

7 weeks until Blizzcon (as of yesterday). We, the most dedicated of MMO-C forum replies, should have a watch party in discord for the entire event!

We can make predictions for what will be announced, then meet up in Valdrakken and sudoku.

That would be fun. Will have to see whether I am available that day, but would be nice to have someone to really enjoy it with.

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Choo Choo!

It's magnificent. Maybe you can incorporate the Tanaris Wasteland set on the Tuskarr chef by giving him the helm. Also I would swap Ragnaros and Thunderaan to make it look like Ragnaros was the one throwing him in the trash. Maybe make Ragnaros paler as well so it looks more like the Lightlord appearance from Hearthstone.
The supposed orc head could maybe be incorporated better. Maybe place it ontop of Thrall since it looks so much like a real WoW orc.

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Nice idea. I'm on EU though

Surely it would be more difficult for US people. Us EU folk get the announcements in the evening.