Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Cheezits]

Pretty big F IMO. New quests in Emerald Dream available on PTR...

Which ones were you talking about here?

[Sondrelk]

Uh Undermine IS fully underground. We're talking about Undermine, not Kezan.

Well in that case my argument is that it's a terrible idea and I hope that doesnt happen.

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Blizzard don’t care about that because they went against the entire idea of disconnected zones with the very next expansion in Shadowlands.

The very clearly did, because the trippy portals were their solution to the loading screens that plagued Cata, and to a lesser extent BfA.

It was a horrible attempt at hiding the issue, but still.

[Teriz]

Possible name of the expansion: Twilight Empire

- Dodges the use of the word "Shadow", which has negative connotations after Shadowlands
- Includes two well known "Void words"
- Reference to the new empire Azshara wishes to rule over
- Reference to the Hour of Twilight, which is what the Old Gods see as their endgame
- Alludes to the threat of the expansion, just like Legion and Shadowlands
- Sounds cool AF

People aren't tired of fighting twilight cultists and faceless ones yet?

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Well in that case my argument is that it's a terrible idea and I hope that doesnt happen.

Well there you go. Many back and forths on this forum would end a whole lot quicker if people simply said they disliked the idea and moved on.

[Santandame]

Well in that case my argument is that it's a terrible idea and I hope that doesnt happen.

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The very clearly did, because the trippy portals were their solution to the loading screens that plagued Cata, and to a lesser extent BfA.

It was a horrible attempt at hiding the issue, but still.

Doesn’t change the fact that they made a disconnected landmass, when they simply could have. They don’t care, the trippy portals was just something they thought would look cool and would fit the theme of travelling to different realms of the afterlife.

[Teriz]

What people are tired of doesn't really matter. The Void is next.

My question with that is what's after the void? Also we stomped N'Zoth in a patch, so why would Azshara suddenly be an expansion-level problem when we stomped her in a patch as well?

[Throren]

Looks like the Wrathion / Netherwing quest was enabled on PTR this week

[Kiivar86]

People aren't tired of fighting twilight cultists and faceless ones yet?

Twilight cultists and faceless ones, yes.

Funky electric blue void stuff? Not so much. Gimme more of that.

My question with that is what's after the void? Also we stomped N'Zoth in a patch, so why would Azshara suddenly be an expansion-level problem when we stomped her in a patch as well?

At some point an expansion threat has to be a lower tier problem, it can't eternally go up. That's how we end up with another Jailer.

[Santandame]

My question with that is what's after the void? Also we stomped N'Zoth in a patch, so why would Azshara suddenly be an expansion-level problem when we stomped her in a patch as well?

The last we saw of her was she was off to seek the “true throne of power”; which is likely some sort of power macguffin.

Why would it matter if she was weaker than N’Zoth anyway? We’ve fought a Titan of death, a fully unleashed Old God, the literal ruler of the realm of Death and this expansion we’ll end fighting a giant shadowflame dragon which as power levels go will be a significant step down.

This ethos that each expansion boss needs to be more powerful than the last needs to die. Who do you imagine would be the end boss of your hypothetical Undermine expansion? Would Yrel be on the same level as Argus, N’Zoth and The Jailer in your Lightbound expansion?

[Teriz]

We also stomped Archimonde, Garrosh, Onyxia, Nefarian, Ragnaros, and about a dozen others over the years and they were still able to pose a threat in the future.

Yeah, and after we stomped them they didn't come back as expansion level threats. They stayed defeated. What you're saying here is that a boss we already beat is now coming back as the main antagonist of a new expansion after we defeated her master years ago. It would be like Sylvanas coming back as a threat after we beat her and the Jailer.

[Santandame]

Yeah, and after we stomped them they didn't come back as expansion level threats. They stayed defeated. What you're saying here is that a boss we already beat is now coming back as the main antagonist of a new expansion after we defeated her master years ago. It would be like Sylvanas coming back as a threat after we beat her and the Jailer.

Archimonde quite literally did come back as an expansion level threat though being the main antagonist and end boss of WoD.

As did Kil’jaeden after we defeated him in TBC, returning in Legion as a chief antagonist.

[Teriz]

At some point an expansion threat has to be a lower tier problem, it can't eternally go up. That's how we end up with another Jailer.

Which is fine. My issue is fighting the same people we've already defeated coming back and being main expansion threats.

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The last we saw of her was she was off to seek the “true throne of power”; which is likely some sort of power macguffin.

Would that power macguffin make her more powerful than N'Zoth? I doubt it.

Why would it matter if she was weaker than N’Zoth anyway? We’ve fought a Titan of death, a fully unleashed Old God, the literal ruler of the realm of Death and this expansion we’ll end fighting a giant shadowflame dragon which as power levels go will be a significant step down.

Yeah, and that was a huge mistake. However the issue is that N'Zoth was the ultimate power behind Azshara and we beat him in a patch. It's hard for me to get excited for an expansion where we fight his lackey and pretty much do BFA all over again.

This ethos that each expansion boss needs to be more powerful than the last needs to die. Who do you imagine would be the end boss of your hypothetical Undermine expansion? Would Yrel be on the same level as Argus, N’Zoth and The Jailer in your Lightbound expansion?

Again, not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about rehashing beaten villains and their surrounding concepts. There's nothing wrong with bringing in new villains are lower power levels, but fighting Azshara again isn't a good idea. We're only 4 years out from 8.3 and us fighting N'Zoth after all.

[Santandame]

Which is fine. My issue is fighting the same people we've already defeated coming back and being main expansion threats.

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Would that power macguffin make her more powerful than N'Zoth? I doubt it.



Yeah, and that was a huge mistake. However the issue is that N'Zoth was the ultimate power behind Azshara and we beat him in a patch. It's hard for me to get excited for an expansion where we fight his lackey and pretty much do BFA all over again.



Again, not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about rehashing beaten villains and their surrounding concepts. There's nothing wrong with bringing in new villains are lower power levels, but fighting Azshara again isn't a good idea. We're only 4 years out from 8.3 and us fighting N'Zoth after all.

See my post regarding Archimonde and Kil’jaeden.

[Teriz]

Archimonde quite literally did come back as an expansion level threat though being the main antagonist and end boss of WoD.

As did Kil’jaeden after we defeated him in TBC, returning in Legion as a chief antagonist.

Fair enough, but that was almost 10 years after TBC. Like I said, we're only about 3 years out from the end of BFA.

[Woggmer]

The Motherlode dungeon in BfA was supposedly set on Kezan, so we know that the island is at least partially inhabitable.

Yeah and in the Goblin heritage armor set, Gallywix seized the part of the island after the Venture Company left and named it Crapopolis. Before that, goblins used it as a testing facility for their new inventions they make.

Thing is that the Undermine is below the volcano. We have no idea how to get there unless there was some Dark Iron dwarves that were nice enough to lend us a mole machine to dig our way down there.

[huth]

Kul Tiras was made into half a continent, let's not overstate what happened. They still attempted to act like it was an island. And for that matter, I am convinced they only made it into two large islands because they wanted to avoid complaints of zones being disconnected.

And besides, Kezan is already an interractible island on the map. It would have to be fully underground to even remotely make sense to increase the size.

Kul Tiras is an island. For that matter, so is Kalimdor. Island just means its a land mass fully surrounded by water. Yes, that includes continents. Modern definition for the latter is basically "largest island on its tectonic plate".

Kul Tiras is actually pretty damn small as well, and we know the world isn't even remotely to scale. They can make Kezan as big or small as fits their needs and it likely wouldn't even be remotely big enough to actually be realistic even at the largest.

Kul Tiras and Zandalar together aren't big enough for one sustainable island kingdom, nevermind two.

[Teriz]

Yeah and in the Goblin heritage armor set, Gallywix seized the part of the island after the Venture Company left and named it Crapopolis. Before that, goblins used it as a testing facility for their new inventions they make.

Thing is that the Undermine is below the volcano. We have no idea how to get there unless there was some Dark Iron dwarves that were nice enough to lend us a mole machine to dig our way down there.

Eh, lore-wise there's entrances to Undermine since Blizzard has stated that it's still there. The entrances simply aren't open to players (yet). Just like we couldn't go to Kul'tiras until BFA despite it always being there.

[huth]

Archimonde quite literally did come back as an expansion level threat though being the main antagonist and end boss of WoD.

As did Kil’jaeden after we defeated him in TBC, returning in Legion as a chief antagonist.

Archimonde was not an antagonist in WoD. He was merely the final boss. Main antagonists where Grom and Gul'dan.

[Teriz]

So the fact that somebody died a "mere 3 years ago" isn't reallt relevant imo.

Fair enough. I believe players wouldn't be very excited about facing Azshara and N'Zoth's minions again so soon after BFA, but we'll see.

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What enemies would be in an Undermine expansion?

Good question. I honestly have no idea. It could be Gallywix in an Azerite-powered mech suit, it could be an Ultron-like mechanical threat backed by titan tech. It'll just be nice to have something new besides a shadow/void aligned big-bad for once.

[Cheezits]

Looks like the "terrarium" is Naga themed.

How funny would it be if Towellie meant UNDER the water?

[Catastrophy349]

I'm ready for it all! Give me anything, I taketh!