Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[huth]

It boggles the mind that posters here don’t seem to understand that BFA was the south seas/Azshara/N’Zoth expansion. They’re not going to do it again.

They literally ended Azshara's story in BfA in a way that basically guarantees she'll show up again. So yes, they absolutely will, and were already making preparations for it.

[Baraden]

I, and Huth have literally already done all of that in previous pages. It’s in fact, yourself who refuses to address our points in response and just acts like an immature child with no argument by saying we’re wrong. Sticking your fingers in your ears and going “lalala I can’t hear you” and continuing to double down and lie like an ignoramus and being completely disingenuous won’t make you correct.

I mean if my above post is akin to me saying "“lalala I can’t hear you”" to your eyes, you may need glasses

[Nightshade711]

I simply don’t see how a Naga/Azshara is possible when Blizzard could have pulled that exact same expansion in 8.0, but they didn’t. Instead, they stuffed the Deep Below/South Seas concept with other themes because they CLEARLY didn’t want to go all in on a deep sea expansion with just Azshara and N’Zoth.

Nothings changed since that point in time.

Then that’s a failure of your own imagination.
It’s clear w/ lore in the forbidden reach (and hell, even her ‘ending’ in BfA) that Azshara is going to return, and all the seafaring-based hints just help solidify it.

[Baraden]

Because a South Sea expansion would deal with Tel Abim and the entirity of Kezan, which are notably absent. Also because, Kul Tiras isn't in the South Sea area. Like, at all.

And finally, because the datamined dragonriding trophy for the BFA zones is very specifically called the Great Seas. Blizzard don't even internally consider it anything close to the South Seas. That's why

You realise the Great Sea is the term for the entire ocean between northrend, pandaria, EK and Kalimdor right - the south seas are inside of that

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They literally ended Azshara's story in BfA in a way that basically guarantees she'll show up again. So yes, they absolutely will, and were already making preparations for it.

And what proof do you have it would be in a southern seas expansion? Are they going to make us raid the Eternal Palace to find her again?

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Then that’s a failure of your own imagination.
It’s clear w/ lore in the forbidden reach (and hell, even her ‘ending’ in BfA) that Azshara is going to return, and all the seafaring-based hints just help solidify it.

IF she returns (which all the hinting in the world means nothing until it actually happens); there's nothing to say it would have to be a southern seas style expansion, moreover, would her appearing in ANY future expansion be proof enough to consider it a south seas expansion?

[Santandame]

- Kezan is in the game
- Plunder Isle was cut from BFA
- Undermine belongs to the subterranean theme alonside the nerubian empire etc, not the south seas theme

So, let's look at what you can actually use

- Tel'Abim, a small island with absolutely no lore besides bananas
- Ogrezonia, a quote "tiny island" that has literally only been mentioned once in the game via one single quest, and the whole quest is a gag reference to futurama
- Hiji, literally no lore, and many argue it's just the native name of Plunder Isle

So if you wanna base a whole expansion off that - go right ahead

- We’ve only seen one part of Kezan. Outside of the Goblin starting experience we can’t return to that one small part.
- Source on that? Even if it was cut, well stone me - I wonder why a popular staple of all South Seas concepts was cut from THE South Seas expansion. Couldn’t possibly be because it was being reserved for an actual South Seas expansion could it? Definitely not.
- Sorry, what? If Kezan were to feature in a South Seas expansion then they’re not just going to completely omit Undermine because it “belongs to the subterranean theme.”
- Tel’Abim has been seeded with lore as recent as Dragonflight. I assume you don’t play the game? Do you know where else had little to no lore before they were implemented as zones? I won’t burst your bubble for you.
- I take it you don’t know how Pandaria came to be, do you?
- Who are the many that argue it? Fans? Forum posters? So it’s just conjecture with no evidence whatsoever. Okay, well I argue that Farahlon is the ancient name for Stormshield.

Regardless of whether it has no lore or not, it’s still established in game. There’s evidence for it existing. Therefore, it is not an asspull. It’s less of an asspull than Val’sharah, Highmountain, Stormwind and Azsuna.

[Teriz]

Because a South Sea expansion would deal with Tel Abim and the entirity of Kezan, which are notably absent. Also because, Kul Tiras isn't in the South Sea area. Like, at all.

That wouldn’t be a south seas expansion though, that would be an undermine expansion. No different than MoP being a Pandarian expansion despite Pandaria and it’s surrounding islands being in the south seas.

And finally, because the datamined dragonriding trophy for the BFA zones is very specifically called the Great Seas. Blizzard don't even internally consider it anything close to the South Seas. That's why

Well there it is. No need to do South Seas if we’ve already done the Great Seas.

[Baraden]

Because a South Sea expansion would deal with Tel Abim and the entirity of Kezan, which are notably absent. Also because, Kul Tiras isn't in the South Sea area. Like, at all.

And finally, because the datamined dragonriding trophy for the BFA zones is very specifically called the Great Seas. Blizzard don't even internally consider it anything close to the South Seas. That's why

You can go to Kezen right now; simply create a goblin or run the motherlode dungeon, let's not forget most of the island was destroyed by the volcano eruption

[Santandame]

Can =/= Should

One of the biggest problem with dragonflight lore is it's hard to care about something that was a complete asspull, that's why people hate Shadowlands and love Wrath

That entire argument falls apart when you realise that the landmass from arguably the best expansion (Legion) was a complete asspull with no established lore apart from Suramar.

You’re not very good at this, are you?

[Teriz]

They literally ended Azshara's story in BfA in a way that basically guarantees she'll show up again. So yes, they absolutely will, and were already making preparations for it.

Uh huh, and why didn’t they do that in BFA? Azshara was so second string in that expansion that her patch came alongside Mechagon.

[Santandame]

You realise the Great Sea is the term for the entire ocean between northrend, pandaria, EK and Kalimdor right - the south seas are inside of that

Except it isn’t. You realise that the Great Sea is literally just the sea to the west of the Eastern Kingdoms, right? And that the Forbidding, Veiled, North and South Seas are completely separate?

[huth]

Uh huh, and why didn’t they do that in BFA? Azshara was so second string in that expansion that her patch came alongside Mechagon.

When? That scene happened in the final raid.

[Baraden]

- We’ve only seen one part of Kezan. Outside of the Goblin starting experience we can’t return to that one small part.
- Source on that? Even if it was cut, well stone me - I wonder why a popular staple of all South Seas concepts was cut from THE South Seas expansion. Couldn’t possibly be because it was being reserved for an actual South Seas expansion could it? Definitely not.
- Sorry, what? If Kezan were to feature in a South Seas expansion then they’re not just going to completely omit Undermine because it “belongs to the subterranean theme.”
- Tel’Abim has been seeded with lore as recent as Dragonflight. I assume you don’t play the game? Do you know where else had little to no lore before they were implemented as zones? I won’t burst your bubble for you.
- I take it you don’t know how Pandaria came to be, do you?
- Who are the many that argue it? Fans? Forum posters? So it’s just conjecture with no evidence whatsoever. Okay, well I argue that Farahlon is the ancient name for Stormshield.

Regardless of whether it has no lore or not, it’s still established in game. There’s evidence for it existing. Therefore, it is not an asspull. It’s less of an asspull than Val’sharah, Highmountain, Stormwind and Azsuna.

- Play the starting zone again, the island was mostly destoyed, other than the motherlode (hey, BFA content again whaddya know) - we don't know if it's even possible to go there
- https://www.wowhead.com/news/battle-...d-25902-281085
- They didn't feature Undermine in Cataclysm which added Kezan, did they?
- Hiji and Plunder Isle look very similar and various maps have placed them interchanbably - and since the most recent chronicles map doesn't include either, they might not even be canon anymore

[Mecheon]

You realise the Great Sea is the term for the entire ocean between northrend, pandaria, EK and Kalimdor right - the south seas are inside of that

I have this little life hack about real life oceans: They're all the one thing and the designations are arbitery. The Gulf of Alaska and the Coral Sea are both part of the Pacific Ocean IRL, but I'd hardly call both of them served if you only visited one

EDIT:

- Play the starting zone again, the island was mostly destoyed, other than the motherlode (hey, BFA content again whaddya know) - we don't know if it's even possible to go there

Ah yes. Just like how the Broken Isles were this one little NElf ruin that Illidan raised from the ocean until it turned out they had a whole other set of islands right next door they just, didn't visit

Until we visit the smoldering crater, something could still be standing. Chances are just that one town got wiped out

[Baraden]

Except it isn’t. You realise that the Great Sea is literally just the sea to the west of the Eastern Kingdoms, right? And that the Forbidding, Veiled, North and South Seas are completely separate?

The Great Sea is the ocean between all four continents, the forbidding sea is east of EK, the Veiled Sea is west of kalimdor, the north sea is north of Northrend - the south seas, and all the islands you're insisting justify another south seas expansion, are still north of pandaria - and all current lore suggests pandaria is the southernmost landmass in azeroth; so the south sea is just the southern great sea, unless you're arguing that another southern hemisphere exists which literally no lore exists to prove that

You can literally look on the chronicles map and see the South Sea is within the seas between continents, making it a part of the great sea

[Teriz]

When? That scene happened in the final raid.

No, I’m saying why wouldn’t Blizzard do an Azshara/Nzoth expansion in 8.0 when they had the perfect set up for it? It makes no sense to cycle back and do a more sea focused version of BFA when you clearly didn’t want to do it in the first place.

[Baraden]

I have this little life hack about real life oceans: They're all the one thing and the designations are arbitery. The Gulf of Alaska and the Coral Sea are both part of the Pacific Ocean IRL, but I'd hardly call both of them served if you only visited one

EDIT:



Ah yes. Just like how the Broken Isles were this one little NElf ruin that Illidan raised from the ocean until it turned out they had a whole other set of islands right next door they just, didn't visit

Until we visit the smoldering crater, something could still be standing. Chances are just that one town got wiped out

Yes, Blizzard can create lore when they like

Doesn't mean you know what they will and won't create

So, the only way to have a sensible discussion is by going off what is actually available in-game and in the canon, not what you'd like to be true

As it stands the remaining southern landmasses have almost no lore and some of them arguably aren't even canon anymore, until Blizzard develops them otherwise or announce another southern seas expansion, all the evidence points to BFA being what we got as a south seas expansion

[Mecheon]

Yes, Blizzard can create lore when they like

Doesn't mean you know what they will and won't create

So, the only way to have a sensible discussion is by going off what is actually available in-game and in the canon, not what you'd like to be true

As it stands the remaining southern landmasses have almost no lore and some of them arguably aren't even canon anymore, until Blizzard develops them otherwise or announce another southern seas expansion, all the evidence points to BFA being what we got as a south seas expansion

Right back at you. We don't know what they would discard either or consider done.

I reiterate that the fact that they kept that stuff around means it can be used one day, and Kezan is the one remaining zone from that really old WoW map (Of the 'naga and demons are playable' age) that we still can't visit

The fact it isn't named as "South Seas" in game files, the stuff that refers to it calls it "Great Seas", and the fact the two well known South Seas islands of Kezan and Tel Abim are either barely visited or not at all, means it remains a wellspring for them to draw from. Regardless though, BFA was the general ocean exploration (and also Azshara and N'zoth) expansion, nothing about it was 'South Seas' specifically

Or, y'know. They tie it in with what people have been thinking of and we have a Western Seas expansion with it and whatever's out west

[Santandame]

- Play the starting zone again, the island was mostly destoyed, other than the motherlode (hey, BFA content again whaddya know) - we don't know if it's even possible to go there
- https://www.wowhead.com/news/battle-...d-25902-281085
- They didn't feature Undermine in Cataclysm which added Kezan, did they?
- Hiji and Plunder Isle look very similar and various maps have placed them interchanbably - and since the most recent chronicles map doesn't include either, they might not even be canon anymore

- Wait, was it destroyed or was it not? Because as you said, The MOTHERLODE survived. Surely The ML surviving indicates that potentially more of the island survived, or was rebuilt? Or does this not fit your argument? Surely if we can visit the ML then we can visit Kezan lmao. Was the ML dungeon just a fever dream?
- Amazing, thank you. Further evidence that BfA wasn’t a South Seas expansion then if one of the most notable South Seas locations was cut from the expansion. Hey, I wonder why Plunder Isle, Tel’Abim, Hiji and Ogrezonia, you know, South Seas islands weren’t used for Island Expeditions in THE South Seas expansion. You know, instead of getting islands called The Dread Chain, Havenswood, Jorundall, Verdant Wilds and more. Oh wait, those islands are confirmed to be in the northern hemisphere of Azeroth in the lore? Hmm, that’s interesting.
- Why would they feature Undermine for a zone that has roughly 30 mins of gameplay for levels 1-5 with no option to ever revisit the zone. What a shit argument, you can do better, surely.
- So you have no evidence, just theories and opinions. Gotcha, good talk.

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The Great Sea is the ocean between all four continents, the forbidding sea is east of EK, the Veiled Sea is west of kalimdor, the north sea is north of Northrend - the south seas, and all the islands you're insisting justify another south seas expansion, are still north of pandaria - and all current lore suggests pandaria is the southernmost landmass in azeroth; so the south sea is just the southern great sea, unless you're arguing that another southern hemisphere exists which literally no lore exists to prove that

You can literally look on the chronicles map and see the South Sea is within the seas between continents, making it a part of the great sea

Wait, this picture from chronicle?

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/wo...20180328215952

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Right back at you. We don't know what they would discard either or consider done.

I reiterate that the fact that they kept that stuff around means it can be used one day, and Kezan is the one remaining zone from that really old WoW map (Of the 'naga and demons are playable' age) that we still can't visit

The fact it isn't named as "South Seas" in game files, the stuff that refers to it calls it "Great Seas", and the fact the two well known South Seas islands of Kezan and Tel Abim are either barely visited or not at all, means it remains a wellspring for them to draw from. Regardless though, BFA was the general ocean exploration (and also Azshara and N'zoth) expansion, nothing about it was 'South Seas' specifically

Or, y'know. They tie it in with what people have been thinking of and we have a Western Seas expansion with it and whatever's out west

One of the guys argument is that if it was cut from an expansion then it won’t be used in the future; not realising that the Dragon Isles, Ulduar, Nazjatar and the Emerald Dream were all cut at various points. As well as Undermine which we haven’t seen yet but Blizz have said we will visit at some point.

Then in another post argues that Undermine belongs to a subterranean themed expansion only when it does show up. I’m not sure he understands what side of the argument he wants to be on.

[huth]

No, I’m saying why wouldn’t Blizzard do an Azshara/Nzoth expansion in 8.0 when they had the perfect set up for it? It makes no sense to cycle back and do a more sea focused version of BFA when you clearly didn’t want to do it in the first place.

Because they wanted to tell a different story first. Really, that's not even a remotely difficult question. Forbidden Isle showed they very much still have it in mind.

[Teriz]

TBF, BFA featured Kezan.