Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Lorgar Aurelian]

As the top of raids? In other words the final boss more than once? The only ones I’m aware of that did that were Kil’Jadeen and Archimonde, but those were different cases.

KT, Ony, Nef, and Rag were all also end bosses of a raid twice.

[Fahrad Wagner]

Glory to the Tel'dorei!

Cursed, but brilliant, you have my respect

[Teriz]

Just like Ragnaros, Nefarian, Kel’thuzad, Archimonde, Illidan, Kil’jaeden, Deathwing were all used as the top of their own raids and never used in major roles or as villains and raid bosses again in the future, right?

All of them, KT and Illidan (actually used as the poster child and main character of an entire expansion instead so an even bigger role) aside were used again at the top of a raid.

- Ragnaros: MC/Firelands
- Nefarian: BWL/BWD
- Archimonde: Battle for Hyjal/Hellfire Citadel
- Kil’jaeden: Sunwell/Tomb of Sargeras

Deathwing was used again as penultimate raid boss and a major figure in Dragonflight. Archimonde was used as the main overarching antagonist of an expansion. Kil’jaeden the secondary antagonist and the most immediate of an expansion. Ragnaros used as the secondary antagonist also of an expansion.

Re-read what I said. Nowhere did I say it had never happened before. What I said was they wouldn't make Azshara the top of a raid after she was the top of the raid before because of what happened in BFA. Not only did we stomp her, we also stomped the big bad pulling her strings. Again, it'd be like Sylvanas coming back as the main antagonist after we beat her and her master who was pulling her strings in Shadowlands.

Those examples you mentioned are entirely different circumstances.

- - - Updated - - -
@Teriz I’m really struggling to follow how you think Azshara as an expansion boss, with all the possibilities a character such as her would undoubtedly have, would be underwhelming yet you’ve advocated for Gallywix in an azerite mech suit as the end boss for an Undermine expansion.

The most powerful arcane user in Azeroth’s history who allowed us to beat her previously. A character with links to presumably the Void Lords currently, as well as Sargeras vs. a character that would most definitely be a joke to the player characters powered by a substance we saw plenty of in BfA whilst dealing with similarly powered up constructs.

Make it make sense.

Now who's talking about power level? I advocate for Gallywix as a potential antagonist because at least it'll be something different to what we've already experienced in Cataclysm and BFA. We've already fought Azshara (multiple times), her undersea monstrosities, and her Naga in Nazjatar and we've already fought N'Zoth. Believing that Blizzard would have us do that again with Xal'atath as N'Zoth's replacement is bizarre logic.

[Magistrate]

Glory to the Tel'dorei!

Underrated mind blowing content. 11/7.

Where's THIS leak??

[Sondrelk]

Underrated mind blowing content. 11/7.

Where's THIS leak??

Shh, don't spoil the secret. Whoever leaked this is obviously taking on a huge risk just getting this concept art out there.

[Dracullus]

Glory to the Tel'dorei!

Finally, Wrath of the Bolvar got dethroned.

[Sondrelk]

Finally, Wrath of the Bolvar got dethroned.

What are you talking about? The Bolvar King is still the main antagonist, the Tel'dorei are the allies we need to help as they struggle to maintain hold over the Banana throne.

[huth]

Is Vyranoth being honest with us? Is she helping us round up all kinds of Dragons just so they can all be attacked at the same time?

Why would you want that? That'd just make them more difficult to defeat and Dragons are strong enough to give a Keeper trouble by default.

- - - Updated - - -

Finally, Wrath of the Bolvar got dethroned.

Nah, it's just a cover for the real thing. A set of 3 expansions dealing with what Chen has been doing, a rebel faction of (mecha) gnomes with tesla weaponry and the resurgence of and founding of a knight order by one of the bestial races of Azeroth.

Working titles are "A new Hops", "The EM-Pire strikes back" and "The Return of the Yeti".

[Fahrad Wagner]

Finally, Wrath of the Bolvar got dethroned.

@Arafal could we please add the Tel'dorei to the train? :3

[Teriz]

KT, Ony, Nef, and Rag were all also end bosses of a raid twice.

Already acknowledged. Here's the point; Blizzard has acknowledged that players didn't like/were burned out on Vashj'ir, which is part of the reason they scrapped Abyssal Maw in Cataclysm. On top of this, their overall treatment of Azshara and Nazjatar in BFA point towards them having a reluctance to go all in on an underwater-themed expansion. Pair that hunch with Blizzard themselves saying that they actively avoid expansion concepts where the themes cause the visuals to be too "samey" and you have a scenario where Azshara and the Naga coming back (again) to be rather unlikely.

That's not even including the issue of us beating her and her puppet master a mere 3.5 years ago.

[Cheezits]

Wonder where the "Veilstrider" FOS for Dragonflight is?

And what the title will be?

[ImTheMizAwesome]

I wonder if battlelord warriors will have some special interaction with odyn in 10.2.

[Mecheon]

Will Odyn mess up somehow? As in, will he finally do something really bad?

Finally? Odyn's been on our 'prospective enemy' list forever. He's not a good person and never has been. There's a reason "I've been wanting to punch him" is an opiton

With all the "Tyr is gonna be evil!" talk up thread I figured folk thought we just weren't going to post the obvious of "Odyn's going evil and Tyr is on our side to stop him" as it was a little too predictable

[Auxis]

With recent speculation, I'd be pretty exited with an expansion mirroring Disneys atlantis.

If Iridikron is to survive into the next expansion. Maybe Avaloren is Atlantis in this comparison. A large landmass on an ocean in a giant subterranean cave. The Horde and Alliance could follow the Night squall under the sea, with assistance from Neptulon (him and water strangely non-existent in this 'elemental' expac were experiencing) through a cavern system to emerge inside a giant sprawling cavern Eco dome with it's own continent. Khaz'algar could be the capital, and Uldaz a titan facility on this landmass inside the planet.

The way through could also be protected by a titan made leviathan similar to the Disney classic, especially if the 'Heretics' of this land are various titan born. Could be an explanation to how the Naga never dared find it, or maybe they did.

The new landmass itself and area around it could be quite artistically stunning, and while theorizing I can't help but wonder if the heretics would be receptive to us, or anyone that would come searching.



At this point in the story, Atlantis is entirely underground. It could be the perfect setting for our Avaloren.

TBH, I never considered Atlantis as a basis for something in WoW. Would be interesting! I can imagine Odyn wasn't too pleased with the Heretics (presuming the heretics and Avaloren could have been living proof of the Black Empire not being "as bad as the Titan's edicts made it out to be"), so he had the entire place sunken and locked away as if it never existed.

[Super Dickmann]

Odyn being on our side but also a prick only marginally better than the ones he's opposing is something the current narrative where everyone's nice can't allow. Since back in BFA we culled everyone less morally upstanding than Dudley Doright that we can ally with, the next step is to move on to the non-playables.

[Nightshade711]

As the top of raids? In other words the final boss more than once? The only ones I’m aware of that did that were Kil’Jadeen and Archimonde, but those were different cases.

Nefarian, Onyxia, Ragnaros, Kel’thuzad… etc etc.

I don’t see them doing that for Azshara, because she simply doesn’t have that mystique anymore because we stomped her and the big bad she was working for. Fighting her again would be a rerun of fighting her in BFA and be rather pointless.

You don’t see it because you don’t have imagination.
We’ve fought plenty of bosses that fall under that same category.

And it’s still moot given the community speculation, and the hype train surrounding Azshara. So clearly there’s some in the community that’re excited to see her return and get the payoff she deserves.

[Cheezits]

Odyn being an antagonist was pretty clearly set up the second his backstory dropped. It's not a twist to anyone who read his backstory lore the second it dropped.

Eyir being chill in the Vyranoth quest also implies that she'll probably take over so the Valajar can still be around, so the two people who liked being railroaded into the Valajar during Legion can breath easy.

[Teriz]

Nefarian, Onyxia, Ragnaros, Kel’thuzad… etc etc.


You don’t see it because you don’t have imagination.
We’ve fought plenty of bosses that fall under that same category.

And it’s still moot given the community speculation, and the hype train surrounding Azshara. So clearly there’s some in the community that’re excited to see her return and get the payoff she deserves.

Projection? Wouldn’t the lack of imagination be on those who want to fight the same antagonists again instead of considering new antagonists? Especially considering we’re currently in an expansion dominated by new antagonists, and by all accounts will finish this expansion on the backs of new (and compelling) antagonists. Before the expansion, people said we’re going to be facing Galakrond, Murazond, or Deathwing as the main antagonists. Thankfully, that hasn’t occurred.

It should give a wake up call to speculators; Blizzard is going in a new direction, not recycling relics from the past.

[Nightshade711]

Found this patent made by blizzard last year out of boredom:

https://uspto.report/patent/app/20220207843

In an embodiment a machine learning system is configured to compute a shape and size of three-dimensional digital objects to fit a second character model based on the shape and size that the same three-dimensional digital objects have to fit a first character model. A server computer receives particular input data defining a plurality of particular input vertices for a particular input three-dimensional digital object fit for the first character model. In response to receiving the particular input data, the server computer computes, using the machine learning system, particular output data defining a plurality of particular output vertices for a particular output three-dimensional digital object, the particular output three-dimensional digital object comprising the particular input three-dimensional digital object fit for the second character model.

Wonder if this is part of that armor system overhaul Ion mentioned that would need to be done for Dracthyr to transmog their armor. (Or any other exotic races in the future)

Having an AI do most of the leg work and then just reviewing the work would make sense.

- - - Updated - - -

Before the expansion, people said we’re going to be facing Galakrond, Murazond, or Deathwing as the main antagonists. Thankfully, that hasn’t occurred.

I mean if I’m SL there were prophecies of Galakrond or Deathwing returning from “the true throne of power” or whatever… or a bunch of Galakrond/Deathwing related hints then I’d see people thinking they’d be a main threat.

[Santandame]

Projection? Wouldn’t the lack of imagination be on those who want to fight the same antagonists again instead of considering new antagonists? Especially considering we’re currently in an expansion dominated by new antagonists, and by all accounts will finish this expansion on the backs of new (and compelling) antagonists. Before the expansion, people said we’re going to be facing Galakrond, Murazond, or Deathwing as the main antagonists. Thankfully, that hasn’t occurred.

It should give a wake up call to speculators; Blizzard is going in a new direction, not recycling relics from the past.

Yet you’re advocating for Yrel, X’era and Gallywix as end of expansion bosses.

Do you want to fight newly introduced characters or “old” ones?