Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[huth]

It's funny how Star Wars/Star Trek/Starcraft is too far, but the basis of WoW's lore are space-wandering gods who built immense technological marvels of machinery on worlds which - in some circumstances - are capable of terraforming planets incases of irreparable infection.

For some reason many western people can't seem to handle SciFi and Fantasy being mixed, despite both just being minor variations of the same larger genre that can't even cleanly be seperated.

[Santandame]

I simply asked a question, and even the "variation" you speak of on Argus still had thematics that matched the entire sub continent. Also this;



is a ridiculous statement. If Blizzard is going to make a void aligned world, then yes the world will match the aesthetic one way or another. Will it be entirely blue and purple? Maybe not, but it will have void concepts throughout. That's simply a fact.

Mate do you just selectively quote people? You’re the most dishonest person in this thread to debate with. I said using the entire blue and purple aesthetic throughout with no variation. No they won’t do that. Just as Argus wasn’t completely fel green throughout. Just as Shadowlands wasn’t black and grey throughout. Just as the Broken Isles wasn’t the Broken Shore aesthetic throughout. Just as Outland wasn’t the Hellfire aesthetic throughout. Same with Northrend being a frozen ice rock.

What thematics on Argus throughout? Have you ever been to Mac’aree?

The only person making ridiculous statements here is you, consistently.

[huth]

You focus too much on the form and not enough on the substance
There is not a single real image, it is generated by AI
On the other hand, there is probably a clue in one of them, such as the sword which may refer to the silithus sword which could be used as a portal or a void anchor
maybe it's even more subtle than that

Once again you pay too much attention to what is obvious and less to the details

You're always going to find something if you do that. Even if what you're looking at is just white noise.

That's why you shouldn't do it. To many false positives.

[Nightshade711]

You're always going to find something if you do that. Even if what you're looking at is just white noise.

That's why you shouldn't do it. To many false positives.

This. Throwback to everyone, myself included, saying that the Dracthyr were fake and from a furry server. And even 3D modelers pointing out how the “wings clipped through the chest”, when they really didn’t and it was just a misinterpretation of the low quality image.

[Santandame]

This. Throwback to everyone, myself included, saying that the Dracthyr were fake and from a furry server. And even 3D modelers pointing out how the “wings clipped through the chest”, when they really didn’t and it was just a misinterpretation of the low quality image.

Yeah I remember this, I was the same too. There was even one guy who was piggy backing off Scaleface’s leaks by posting private server screenshots, so we all assumed the Dracthyr were too. Then an hour or so later we got the big reveal.

[Teriz]

Mate do you just selectively quote people? You’re the most dishonest person in this thread to debate with. I said using the entire blue and purple aesthetic throughout with no variation. No they won’t do that. Just as Argus wasn’t completely fel green throughout. Just as Shadowlands wasn’t black and grey throughout. Just as the Broken Isles wasn’t the Broken Shore aesthetic throughout. Just as Outland wasn’t the Hellfire aesthetic throughout. Same with Northrend being a frozen ice rock.

What thematics on Argus throughout? Have you ever been to Mac’aree?

The only person making ridiculous statements here is you, consistently.

The only one being dishonest here is you.

You're comparing a world dominated by the void to something like Northrend. If you look at real-life arctic regions, you'd realize rather quickly that they aren't entirely frozen tundras. There are arctic and sub arctic forests, shorelines, and other concepts that can be utilized for a polar-based expansion.

While I found Shadowlands to be nauseating, even within that concept you can come up with a variety of concepts to go along with death and the afterlife. Heaven with angels and hell with demons for example, and various other religious concepts that can be woven into the idea of a realm of the dead. Despite that, Blizzard largely dropped the ball with that expansion because it's simply too open-ended to effectively work as an expansion theme.

Argus wasn't an expansion, it was a patch. However even in that patch the variety wasn't good, but that was largely not a problem because we were coming from the Broken Isles. Imagine an ENTIRE expansion like Argus and get back to me.

When we have to argue that players shouldn't be concerned about a void-based world because its mostly not going to look like a void-based world, we already have a serious problem.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

https://twitter.com/towelthetank/sta...02409927987232

Never seen Towelliee be this vehemently against a concept prior to a expansion, lol.

Seems like his belief is that they would instead put all the "Revamp pls" folk on towards a Classic product that fits in that style instead.



Fascinating nonetheless.

[Hitei]

When we have to argue that players shouldn't be concerned about a void-based world because its mostly not going to look like a void-based world, we already have a serious problem.

Weird take when you're fresh off having to argue that players shouldn't be concerned about an Undermine expansion because it's mostly not going to look like a goblin-based area.

[Teriz]

https://twitter.com/towelthetank/sta...02409927987232

Never seen Towelliee be this vehemently against a concept prior to a expansion, lol.

Seems like his belief is that they would instead put all the "Revamp pls" folk on towards a Classic product that fits in that style instead.



Fascinating nonetheless.

I wouldn't be surprised if he was talking about Cataclysm classic.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I wouldn't be surprised if he was talking about Cataclysm classic.

Well I don't see how this Blizzcon isn't pure bloodshed then.

[Teriz]

Weird take when you're fresh off having to argue that players shouldn't be concerned about an Undermine expansion because it's mostly not going to look like a goblin-based area.

Because Goblins are cosmopolitan creatures with a rather wide variety of personality traits and styles, and we've really only seen a small part of their culture. The Trade Coalition that dominates Undermine is a global trading empire ruled by a variety of trade princes who no doubt also have a wide variety of personality traits and styles. You toss in the notion of a location that is a massive cosmopolitan trading port/city and it doesn't take much to recognize how much you can do with the concept.

On the other hand we have the Void, which has always been shown in a very specific way. I'm sure Blizzard could expand the concept, but the thematic remains a world conquered or overwhelmed by void influence. There's only so many ways that theme can go.

The difference here is that I'm using actual lore and examples while the other side is pretty much saying "Trust me bro!"

[Santandame]

The only one being dishonest here is you.

You're comparing a world dominated by the void to something like Northrend. If you look at real-life arctic regions, you'd realize rather quickly that they aren't entirely frozen tundras. There are arctic and sub arctic forests, shorelines, and other concepts that can be utilized for a polar-based expansion.

While I found Shadowlands to be nauseating, even within that concept you can come up with a variety of concepts to go along with death and the afterlife. Heaven with angels and hell with demons for example, and various other religious concepts that can be woven into the idea of a realm of the dead. Despite that, Blizzard largely dropped the ball with that expansion because it's simply too open-ended to effectively work as an expansion theme.

Argus wasn't an expansion, it was a patch. However even in that patch the variety wasn't good, but that was largely not a problem because we were coming from the Broken Isles. Imagine an ENTIRE expansion like Argus and get back to me.

When we have to argue that players shouldn't be concerned about a void-based world because its mostly not going to look like a void-based world, we already have a serious problem.

You literally said a few pages ago that Shadowlands had the exact same aesthetic throughout and you were completely debunked by screenshots that were posted.

You still haven’t addressed the thematics going through the Argus zones. Again, have you ever been to Mac’aree? I’m also of the belief that again, with some creativity and the desire from Blizzard that Argus quite easily could have carried an expansion with enough diversity between the zones.

If Argus as PATCH content (your argument) was more than just a fel green wasteland, then why on earth do you expect an entire Void aligned continent to be purple and blue only?

If we get K’Aresh then clearly the eco domes are going to play a massive part on the landmass. Of course there’s going to be a void corrupted zone but it’s also incredibly likely we’d get Arabian inspired zones because of the Ethereal thematics as well as lush jungle zones because of the eco domes we’ve already seen. And that’s the thing with creativity and imagination Teriz, the eco domes are an endless possibility for different climates found in them because of both fantasy and sci fi.

The exact same if we get Nathreza as a landmass. There would undoubtedly be a void aligned zone because of the old lore surrounding Dreadlords. Yet we would also get an arcane city inspired zone because that’s a setting Nathreza is known for. Just like we’d also very likely get a zone that fits the Venthyr aesthetic.

Just because a world would have ties to the Void and feature it, doesn’t mean that the entire planet would be void corrupted with no other aesthetic. And once again I refer to Outland and Argus which were both fel corrupted lands yet had plenty of variety throughout. The exact same with Shadowlands which wasn’t just a grey copy of Azeroth or the Maw throughout.

You’re a hypocrite. You’re more than happy to advocate that Undermine wouldn’t just be one Goblin themed aesthetic throughout but anything that has a Void theme can only ever be completely Void corrupted throughout and nothing else.

- - - Updated - - -

The difference here is that I'm using actual lore and examples while the other side is pretty much saying "Trust me bro!"

You aren’t using lore to reinforce your examples. You’re using your own theories and headcanon for your examples, essentially your own version of “trust me bro!” whilst discounting actual lore when arguing with others.

What current aesthetics are there in game for Goblins that are different than what we currently have? All of their settlements look exactly the same.

[username993720]

U literally just proved my point. Outland is Draenor and without them u dont have the orcs & Again Demons are Aliens in Warcraft. There is no getting away from that element. People were shocked at the space/dimension ships in legion and yet they have been a thing since TBC. Warcraft cant exist without those elements if it did literally none of the playable races would exist or the majority of the plot.

Demons used to use portals. Now they use spaceships. A downgrade in demon fantasy.

[Yus atath]

11.0 will be about the elemental lords mark my words

[Santandame]

11.0 will be about the elemental lords mark my words

Just can’t see it as we’re in an elemental expansion now with Dragonflight.

What I think we’ll get:

Avaloren
or
Other side of Azeroth
or
Whatever Scaleface is claiming so a void world

What I want:

World Revamp
or
South Seas

What I wouldn’t mind:

Underground
Ancient Kalimdor

[micwini]

Scaleface, it's time to show your ass in here. Give us some juice!

[Teriz]

You literally said a few pages ago that Shadowlands had the exact same aesthetic throughout and you were completely debunked by screenshots that were posted.

Wrong. I said the majority of the expansion had that theme, and it did.

You still haven’t addressed the thematics going through the Argus zones. Again, have you ever been to Mac’aree? I’m also of the belief that again, with some creativity and the desire from Blizzard that Argus quite easily could have carried an expansion with enough diversity between the zones.

If Argus as PATCH content (your argument) was more than just a fel green wasteland, then why on earth do you expect an entire Void aligned continent to be purple and blue only?

You're talking about this right?



That doesn't mean a whole lot when the other two zones (aka the majority or Argus) look like the fel green wasteland that we know and love. Now expand this to an expansion, where the MAJORITY of the zones we're playing in are going to look like variations of a fel-green wasteland. The thing you're not getting is that in such an expansion the majority of zones will have to look that way because the thematic demands it. You can't have a legion conquered world where the majority of it doesn't look like the legion conquered it, that doesn't make sense. The same applies to a world conquered by the void.

If we get K’Aresh then clearly the eco domes are going to play a massive part on the landmass. Of course there’s going to be a void corrupted zone but it’s also incredibly likely we’d get Arabian inspired zones because of the Ethereal thematics as well as lush jungle zones because of the eco domes we’ve already seen. And that’s the thing with creativity and imagination and imagination Teriz, the eco domes are an endless possibility for different climates found in them because of both fantasy and sci fi.

The exact same if we get Nathreza as a landmass. There would undoubtedly be a void aligned zone because of the old lore surrounding Dreadlords. Yet we would also get an arcane city inspired zone because that’s a setting Nathreza is known for. Just like we’d also very likely get a zone that fits the Venthyr aesthetic.

See above. You don't get a void conquered world where the majority of the world isn't conquered by the void. If you don't want a void-conquered world, then don't advocate for a void world.

Just because a world would have ties to the Void and feature it, doesn’t mean that the entire planet would be void corrupted with no other aesthetic. And once again I refer to Outland and Argus which were both fel corrupted lands yet had plenty of variety throughout. The exact same with Shadowlands which wasn’t just a grey copy of Azeroth or the Maw throughout.

Again, not ties to the void CONQUERED by the void. There's a difference. Argus was mostly a fel-green hellscape, and Outlands was a shattered world. Chances are we're getting something more akin to Argus than Outland. Further, unless something's changed, the lore states that the Ethereals fled K'aresh because the void lords completely conquered it. You're telling me a place like K'aresh is going to have a variety of ecosystems when the Ethereals themselves fled the planet?

You’re a hypocrite. You’re more than happy to advocate that Undermine wouldn’t just be one Goblin themed aesthetic throughout but anything that has a Void theme can only ever be completely Void corrupted throughout and nothing else.

Yeah, because Goblins aren't a singular cosmic force. They're a variety of crazy, greedy creatures who like to twist the world to fit their own personal whims. It's like comparing an alien invasion to 7 millionaires who get 7 empty plots of land to build the mansion of their dreams. I can assure you those 7 mansions are going to showcase far more variety than Earth after the aliens take over.

[Santandame]

Wrong. I said the majority of the expansion had that theme, and it did.



You're talking about this right?



That doesn't mean a whole lot when the other two zones (aka the majority or Argus) look like the fel green wasteland that we know and love. Now expand this to an expansion, where the MAJORITY of the zones we're playing in are going to look like variations of a fel-green wasteland. The thing you're not getting is that in such an expansion the majority of zones will have to look that way because the thematic demands it. You can't have a legion conquered world where the majority of it doesn't look like the legion conquered it, that doesn't make sense. The same applies to a world conquered by the void.



See above. You don't get a void conquered world where the majority of the world isn't conquered by the void. If you don't want a void-conquered world, then don't advocate for a void world.



Again, not ties to the void CONQUERED by the void. There's a difference. Argus was mostly a fel-green hellscape, and Outlands was a shattered world. Unless something's changed, the lore states that the Ethereals fled K'aresh because the void lords completely conquered it. You're telling me a place like K'aresh is going to have a variety of ecosystems when the Ethereals themselves fled the planet?



Yeah, because Goblins aren't a singular cosmic force. They're a variety of crazy, greedy creatures who like to twist the world to fit their own personal whims. It's like comparing an alien invasion to 7 millionaires who get 7 empty plots of land to build the mansion of their dreams. I can assure you those 7 mansions are going to showcase far more variety than Earth after the aliens take over.

Everything you’ve posted here is wrong and a contradiction upon a contradiction upon a contradiction and it doesn’t warrant anything more as a response than that because every sense of reason and logic and evidence falls on nothing but deaf ears with you and is just met with incorrect rubbish, just as you do with everyone else regarding pretty much everything.

[Hitei]

Because Goblins are cosmopolitan creatures with a rather wide variety of personality traits and styles.

-Money focused
-Engineering focused

Woah, what a variety.

On the other hand we have the Void, which has always been shown in a very specific way.

I've gotta say, claiming that goblins, the race that has a half a dozen different factions all doing the same generic money and engineering thing at varying levels of morality and amiability, offer a wide variety and lots of concept potential in the same post where you claim the Void--something we know only the roughest of things about, whose organizational nuances, scale and contents we don't even remotely understand--is something very specific and limited, is a very you thing to do.

You'd think basic observation that every notable goblin character in the game, from Revilgaz to Gazlowe, Gallywix and Blackfuse to Grizzek is either a profit-seeking tyvoon or an engineer, or both a businessperson and an engineer, would give you the impression that there's not much variety or possibility going on there... but I can see how, being Teriz, you think that somehow those goblin characters show more variation in personality traits and style than, for example: Azshara, Xal'atath, Locus Walker, Alleria, N'zoth, and Ner'zhul.

I especially liked the part where you ignored that Ethereals, the race most involved in the Void, do everything goblins do but better and with greater variation, being both better engineers with greater variety and familiarity in technology, and traders so cosmopolitan they deal across countless worlds and multiple dimensions, rendering Undermine's "global trading empire" hilariously backwater and insignificant.

I only wish that the AI pictures had included some random gnome building, so that you'd be here stalwartly insisting that this looked like the best expansion ever.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

It's always the same teriz person that eventually turns this thread from speculation thread to 20 pages argue about his own theories which always shows one thing - a narcisstic a-hole that thinks his theories are the only one that only matter.

i guess ignore button will do wonders here to cleaning up the thread.

Anything can happen with next expansion, some will like the theme, some not - it's still just a game at the end of the day.