Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Woggmer]

I did the Goblin starting zone once and hated it, will never roll a goblin again, also I steer Clear of all the Gnome/Goblin infested areas as much as possible, an expansion about them and their culture would be seriously offputting and im pretty sure im not the only one who feels this way.

To be perfectly honest, the Goblin city part of the starting zone never bothered me. If anything, it was kind of exciting and a really cool place to explore. I even liked going through the tunnel in the little car and walking through the sludge fields and driving up all the way to Gallywix's place and seeing his lavished home. That's fun.

What isn't fun is when they're on the island and the pacing feels off, the island is boring, and some of the plot elements they do on the island get...ridiculous even by WoW standards. (They killed a volcano demi-god turtle thing with rockets. No Heart of Azeroth, No Artifact Weapon, No high ilvl, no skill, just... rockets.. and it makes you go "Why haven't we done this sooner?")

Plus, it isn't as offputting nowadays where we've got the Legion coming in giant dreadnaught space ships like it was Warhammer 40k meets Star Wars.. and the whole concept of Mechagon made people more interested in the concept of an underground city... To me, the most offputting place in WoW would be places like Ahn'qiraj which doesn't even feel like it belongs in WoW's realm.

[Reive]

This is basically the point in a patch cycle where the engagement is at its lowest though, so hardly fair.

the comparison with other expansions was done at the same point in time. hardcore? it has been fairly popular for months now. at least on twtich. remember that before the official release there was the one made by the community. retail got a small bump at the start of 10.1 for the rwf but after that it was only classic again.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Too bad they wasted the “Hour of Twilight” name on patch 4.3 and also the dungeon. That would have been an excellent name for a Void/Old Gods-themed expansion.

[Eeram]

the comparison with other expansions was done at the same point in time. hardcore? it has been fairly popular for months now. at least on twtich. remember that before the official release there was the one made by the community. retail got a small bump at the start of 10.1 for the rwf but after that it was only classic again.

The thing is with Hardcore Classic is at the end of the day there is a Cap to how much fun it can be an thats the issue with it. unless they start releasing Hardcore TBC and Wrath an so forth.
Once you hit 60 what do you do? you cant PVP other then Duels but if you lose a Duel you Restart an while that may work for what i assume is a small handful of people the majority of players isnt going to restart after 60. You have Raids which are fun an good till you get your BiS but other then that there is a Ceiling to Hardcore classic. now i may be wrong because i've never played or will play it. but on paper it doesn't seem like something that will last a long time.

[pacotaco]

Living World was just a set of animations used by gameobjects that interact with the players location, e.g. birds flying away in the dracthyr starting zone when crossing the bridge.

The dragons flying in the sky you can see in Valdrakken are that too I think, right?

[Magistrate]

the comparison with other expansions was done at the same point in time. hardcore? it has been fairly popular for months now. at least on twtich. remember that before the official release there was the one made by the community. retail got a small bump at the start of 10.1 for the rwf but after that it was only classic again.

Their internal reporting stated it has the best player retention of any recent expansion, so it's at least to par at this point with... and I'm guessing... probably anything as far back as bfa. Maybe legion, unsure on how they define recent.

[pacotaco]

So, Nymue the tree robot that Freya and Eonar installed in the Dream, has some fun lines.




Also summons tree monsters called Cycle Wardens. So lots of parallels to the Constellars and the First Ones. Also we straight up kill her so I wonder if that will have ramifications.

Noticed that Smolderon also has a cutscene when you kill him. Maybe just a transition to the Flame Druid and Fyrakk, but I wonder if there's some loredrop after he dies relating to him.

Just as I said a few days ago: "What if the Dream is like the elemental planes, but for Life?"

[Woggmer]

Just as I said a few days ago: "What if the Dream is like the elemental planes, but for Life?"

That would make sense... See, there are the four elemental planes like Fire, Wind, Water, and Earth.. but there's two other elements that have been neglected for a while which is Spirit.. and the other being Decay (which we saw plenty of from the Gnolls.. and considering the leader gnoll ran away.. we'll likely see more about the decay element in a later date)

...But one thing that is interesting is that, we also have the elemental materials we get from gathering and looting. They have Fire, Earth, Water(or Frost), Air, Decay and Order. .....One of these things is not like the other.

[Teriz]

To be perfectly honest, the Goblin city part of the starting zone never bothered me. If anything, it was kind of exciting and a really cool place to explore. I even liked going through the tunnel in the little car and walking through the sludge fields and driving up all the way to Gallywix's place and seeing his lavished home. That's fun.

What isn't fun is when they're on the island and the pacing feels off, the island is boring, and some of the plot elements they do on the island get...ridiculous even by WoW standards. (They killed a volcano demi-god turtle thing with rockets. No Heart of Azeroth, No Artifact Weapon, No high ilvl, no skill, just... rockets.. and it makes you go "Why haven't we done this sooner?")

Plus, it isn't as offputting nowadays where we've got the Legion coming in giant dreadnaught space ships like it was Warhammer 40k meets Star Wars.. and the whole concept of Mechagon made people more interested in the concept of an underground city... To me, the most offputting place in WoW would be places like Ahn'qiraj which doesn't even feel like it belongs in WoW's realm.

I think the most off-putting aspect of Goblins and Gnomes, at least to me, is the available classes for them. It's very weird to be a goblin on Kezan with robots, laser guns, and cars everywhere, and you're stuck playing as a warrior with a sword or a mage with a staff. It just really puts you out of the entire experience because you should have a class option that reflects the technology around you. Being a Hunter with a musket and a crab just doesn't cut it when Gallywix is rolling in a spider mech.

That said, yeah I agree; The bad part of the Goblin zone wasn't Kezan. Kezan was actually a blast (no pun intended). It's the Lost Isles that is an utter slog.

[Marlamin]

The dragons flying in the sky you can see in Valdrakken are that too I think, right?

Not sure, those might be a scenescript as they don't fly away when you get close, they just tend to disappear.

[Reive]

The thing is with Hardcore Classic is at the end of the day there is a Cap to how much fun it can be an thats the issue with it. unless they start releasing Hardcore TBC and Wrath an so forth.
Once you hit 60 what do you do? you cant PVP other then Duels but if you lose a Duel you Restart an while that may work for what i assume is a small handful of people the majority of players isnt going to restart after 60. You have Raids which are fun an good till you get your BiS but other then that there is a Ceiling to Hardcore classic. now i may be wrong because i've never played or will play it. but on paper it doesn't seem like something that will last a long time.

No one expects hardcore to last forever. What matters tho is that hardcore has made certain flaws retail has more evident. It's weird that people who have not touched retail in a long time are no lifing hardcore. there must be something that makes retail unappealing to them

Their internal reporting stated it has the best player retention of any recent expansion, so it's at least to par at this point with... and I'm guessing... probably anything as far back as bfa. Maybe legion, unsure on how they define recent.

take the retention thing with a grain of salt. if you start with 5m and lose 2.5m you've lost 50% of your playerbase while if you start with 1m and lose 100k you've lost 10% of the playerbase. The player retention is better in the second case, but the total amount of players is way lower. Dragonflight has probably a better retention because the spike in player numbers the game gets at the start of every expansion wasn't that high this time around.

[Eeram]

No one expects hardcore to last forever. What matters tho is that hardcore has made certain flaws retail has more evident. It's weird that people who have not touched retail in a long time are no lifing hardcore. there must be something that makes retail unappealing to them

Its really not that crazy. i can honestly say more then half of my friends list that were playing Hardcore classic the first 2 weeks have all but stopped playing it an are back on retail. obviously it depends on your friend group an thats how its always going to be. im not going to really be talking to people that arnt doing the same things as me unless they are RL friends. So i think your view may be somewhat skewed as its very obvious you do not like retail which is fine! honestly Dragonflight has been super great for me because i recently started a new job after dragonflight was launched an ive been able to keep up with my guild an still enjoy the content. now this may not be the same for everyone but i dont think Retail is really doing AS bad as you think it is.

Also, if you want to see what player base is more populated. Squish Every wow realm into two realms an i promise you there will be a much higher player counter on retail then Hardcore

[Ebonn]

https://www.twitch.tv/directory/cate...ld-of-warcraft
everyone is streaming classic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc-3...b_channel=IZEN
m+ and raid numbers are way down
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH_U...hannel=Venruki
pvp is dead
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...discussion/171
the forums are a whinefest
10.2 is just another lazy patch

Saying retail is doing great is being disingenuous

Neither of those quotes say that retail is doing great, only that your assertions are opinions, not facts. Those links you provided are also too narrow in scope to count as statistics lol. I’m not arguing that retail is doing worse or better at all - I’m just saying you should not present your personal opinion as fact and then make further assumptions off your initial assumption. If I had presented my personal experience of very lively, active servers, that also would be inaccurate.

I’m a few pages late, but all those void thumbnails - they don’t look real to me, but they look very Warcrafty and I would definitely play a void expansion lol.

[Woggmer]

I think the most off-putting aspect of Goblins and Gnomes, at least to me, is the available classes for them. It's very weird to be a goblin on Kezan with robots, laser guns, and cars everywhere, and you're stuck playing as a warrior with a sword or a mage with a staff. It just really puts you out of the entire experience because you should have a class option that reflects the technology around you. Being a Hunter with a musket and a crab just doesn't cut it when Gallywix is rolling in a spider mech.

That said, yeah I agree; The bad part of the Goblin zone wasn't Kezan. Kezan was actually a blast (no pun intended). It's the Lost Isles that is an utter slog.

That seems more like a gameplay technical issue than a lore one. Like it would take a lot of effort just to create a Goblin/Gnome "Priest" who doesn't use the Light but instead uses a robot that heals nearby players... or using other alternative methods rather than just "Why not have them use the Light" then it'll lead to the same discussion as "Why can't Green Orcs use the Light? Why did it take them this long to learn the ways of the Light?" And the answer will always be because of technical reasons.
(This is also coming from a time when they're trying to move away from Race-Based spells priests had like how Dwarves having Fear Ward making them the best option to roll a priest for that reason alone.)

[Reive]

Edited my post because i don't want to derail the thread anymore.

Anyway, i don't really care what's going to be the theme of the next expansion. what i want tho is:

1) more features and lasting content. dragonflight was too light on side content for my taste
2) i want the game to get some of its old "vibe" back. dragonflight has been extremely boring story wise and the reason is that there haven't been many (if any) cool moments. most cutscenes were npcs moping around and complaining about their feelings
3) always story wise, would be nice for characters to complete their "arcs". what happened to murozond's plotline this expansion was on the same level of using n'zoth and azshara as patch villains.

[huth]

That would make sense... See, there are the four elemental planes like Fire, Wind, Water, and Earth.. but there's two other elements that have been neglected for a while which is Spirit.. and the other being Decay (which we saw plenty of from the Gnolls.. and considering the leader gnoll ran away.. we'll likely see more about the decay element in a later date)

...But one thing that is interesting is that, we also have the elemental materials we get from gathering and looting. They have Fire, Earth, Water(or Frost), Air, Decay and Order. .....One of these things is not like the other.

Actually, there's only one elemental plane. Each element has it's own distinct area in it, but there's only one plane. You could dig down from Therazane's realm and drop into the Firelands. You'd probably die, both because Therazane wouldn't like that and because it's a rather long drop, but you could.

[Woggmer]

Towelliee we'll get something involving a revamp, but it's not retail.

Cata gave us our first World Revamp, and that I'd next on the Classic list.

The dots are connected already. You need only figure out the picture.

...That's going to be a massive disappointment if it ends up being Cata Classic if not an actual revamp for retail. And probably upset both Retail and Classic players (specifically those that don't want Cata and just only want TBC and Wrath instead).

[Dismayxz]

one of the pictures, this seems AI generated

https://x.com/wowexdev/status/1704396587613442160?s=20

???

Honestly, looking at these (granted they are really kinda small, it does sort of give proper Ingame Screenshot vibes. You know, in the sense that it looks better than it would ultimately look on live, because the footage was processed and captured on showcase rigs for the purpose of being trailer shots etc.). Straight Artwork would be different and it doesn't give me high quality AI Art vibes at all, just because the art style that you CAN make out on some of these, if you scoot in real close is very distinct, compared to what I've seen of AI Art trying to replicate the WoW Style.

[lostsoup]

Yeah, some of them look way too WoW like to be AI generated... for example, the grass on the one in the bottom right looks exactly like WoW.

[Santandame]

Towelliee we'll get something involving a revamp, but it's not retail.

Cata gave us our first World Revamp, and that I'd next on the Classic list.

The dots are connected already. You need only figure out the picture.

But read my post… why would that be compensation? The Cata zones are literally already in retail. The fans of the revamp concept want a revamp to move us away from and to update the Cata-era zones currently in retail. Getting Cata classic isn’t going to be a consolation or compensation for not getting a World Revamp in retail when literally the reason why we want a revamp is to move away from the Cata zones.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, some of them look way too WoW like to be AI generated... for example, the grass on the one in the bottom right looks exactly like WoW.

They look pretty cool if I’m honest. I’d be excited for an expansion that features that aesthetic.