Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Samin]

I think we are 1 week away from blizzcon virtual ticket rewards reveal, which lore character do you think will be the murlock pet this time?

My bet is on one of the incarnates, probably not Raz but the other three seem all kind of equally likely.

[Jaggler]

Wait. For the BlizzConline one in 2021, they did a Blizzard polar bear as well as a "moon-touched" Netherwhelp. This was the year they announced the 9.1 patch, so it was generally pretty awful for WoW players.

The event in 2022 was cancelled, which is probably why they held the Dragonflight reveal as a separate event in April that year, a couple of months later.

I know the 2021 items were probably more of a "Blizzard turns 30" kinda thing, but it's still interesting. The bear mount is straight out of the Azure Span, thematically (I know, I know, Blizzard, snow, ice, etc.), but the pet? We're bringing Nether Dragons to the Emerald Dream in 10.2, aren't we? Will they be "moon-touched" by Elune?

It was a Netherdrake because of TBC classic that launched in 2021

[Daniri]

so basicaly from another dimension?
yeah that is soo unusual in sci-fi settings... /s

If something being from another plane of existence makes it intrinsically sci-fi was their point, then it was even dumber than I thought. Go ahead and call descriptions of the underworld and the lower planes sci-fi if you want, it won't change the way anyone feels about the difference in tone between Warcraft 2 and Star Trek.

[Lady Atia]

I think we are 1 week away from blizzcon virtual ticket rewards reveal, which lore character do you think will be the murlock pet this time?

I have the gut feeling that it will be a Thralluc. Also hoping for either a transmog and/or a mount, simply because this is the first Blizzcon since Corona and we also did get pet+mount with blizzconline if I remember it right.

[Ersula]

I think we are 1 week away from blizzcon virtual ticket rewards reveal, which lore character do you think will be the murlock pet this time?

I thought to myself "Well, they didn't do virtual ticket because it was free last year" and I checked: It's 100% free again this year. But you can still "Buy the Virtual ticket for special in-game goodies." Why on earth are they still calling it a virtual ticket. That's just a cosmetic bundle at this point.

[Makorus]

I'm still puzzled by how many people seem to assume there was ever going to be anything in the first place. Vakthros is pretty much just some broken towers on a mountain with no indication that it'd still be usable after 10,000 years of neglect.

It has that "special big map icon" thing that dungeons/raids have, plus it was important enough that Raszageth wanted to destroy it, and potentially claim a prize from within it. We never really find out why it is so important.

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I think we are 1 week away from blizzcon virtual ticket rewards reveal, which lore character do you think will be the murlock pet this time?

I think it's gonna be a Fyrakk murloc.

I am more excited for the mount anyway, the Blizzcon mounts are usually quite cool.

[huth]

If something being from another plane of existence makes it intrinsically sci-fi was their point, then it was even dumber than I thought. Go ahead and call descriptions of the underworld and the lower planes sci-fi if you want, it won't change the way anyone feels about the difference in tone between Warcraft 2 and Star Trek.

The difference between SciFi and Fantasy is almost entirely arbitrary. And WarCraft 1 was originally intended as a Warhammer Fantasy game at a time when that was considered to be taking place in the Warhammer 40k universe.

The difference between WarCraft and Star Trek is far more down to the difference in subject matter, where Star Trek is far more concerned with sociopolitics than action, than it is to SciFi vs. Fantasy.

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It has that "special big map icon" thing that dungeons/raids have, plus it was important enough that Raszageth wanted to destroy it, and potentially claim a prize from within it. We never really find out why it is so important.

You mean the ones typically used for significant structures in the open world? They aren't for Dungeons. It's just that dungeons are typically placed near them. There's a lot of them that have no dungeons anywhere close, though.

[Ersula]

The difference between SciFi and Fantasy is almost entirely arbitrary. And WarCraft 1 was originally intended as a Warhammer Fantasy game at a time when that was considered to be taking place in the Warhammer 40k universe.

The difference between WarCraft and Star Trek is far more down to the difference in subject matter, where Star Trek is far more concerned with sociopolitics than action, than it is to SciFi vs. Fantasy.

I always liked that Warcraft included Science fiction motifs. It's a setting that consists of a long string of aliens invading new planets. And its not purely arbitrary; a lot of people have pointed out Star Wars is Fantasy but Star Trek is science fiction: Fantasy is concerned with telling psudohistorical stories that focus on lineage, while Science Fiction focuses on speculative technology. A transporter is based on speculative scientific principals. A laser sword isn't. A laser beam cannot cause a planet to explode. But instead Star Wars is about cultures, families & warfare, which places it firmly among the fantasy genre. Where Tolkien Fantasy based itself on medieval europe, star wars based itself on the aesthetics of the late 1970s.

I just think Warcraft shouldn't be afraid of spaceships or laser swords. It'll always be fantasy.

[Grazrug]

What the hell are you talking about? It starts out as an enchanted forest and at some point you get to the edges and see the height and branches and think to yourself wow... even that portal to the dock emphasized it, or the hippogryph to Darkshore.



And the music.
What do you consider a good zone?

Tiragade Sound.

[pacotaco]

It was a Netherdrake because of TBC classic that launched in 2021

But why "moon-touched"? It would make more sense a fel-corrupted, no?

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I wouldnt be surprised if it's just a map from the new raid that is mislabelled.

The 2nd "room" looks like the Nymue fight zone.

[Auxis]

But why "moon-touched"? It would make more sense a fel-corrupted, no?

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The 2nd "room" looks like the Nymue fight zone.

That room also has a giant flower/clover motif on the ground based on the line work. So I'm also putting my vote in for Amirdrassil wing.

[Makorus]

What the hell are you talking about? It starts out as an enchanted forest and at some point you get to the edges and see the height and branches and think to yourself wow... even that portal to the dock emphasized it, or the hippogryph to Darkshore.



And the music.
What do you consider a good zone?

It doesn't feel like a tree.

A tree zone needs verticality, and Teldrassil is one of the flattest zones.

When you get to the branches, and you look up and see nothing when you are supposed to see more of the tree kills the illusion. You are in a destroyed tree trunk rather than a tree. It might as well be a crater.

[Foolicious]

What the hell are you talking about? It starts out as an enchanted forest and at some point you get to the edges and see the height and branches and think to yourself wow... even that portal to the dock emphasized it, or the hippogryph to Darkshore.

I still think teldrassil is a complete miss for a starting zone. Is it beautiful even for classic standard? Absolutely. But i know players that didn't know that it was a tree until bfa. Or many that thought it was cut down because the intro suggests it together with ingame visuals. Or how this ancient feeling area is actually only 20 years old.
What it is(was) and what its supposed to be are not even close.

[jeezusisacasual]

It doesn't feel like a tree.

A tree zone needs verticality, and Teldrassil is one of the flattest zones.

When you get to the branches, and you look up and see nothing when you are supposed to see more of the tree kills the illusion. You are in a destroyed tree trunk rather than a tree. It might as well be a crater.

Could you imagine the starting experience for the Night Elves being about clearing the various limbs and trunk of threats? Creating a narrative experience about growth and longevity and what it means to be a night elf. Each major branch being a sub story god the possibilities could be so damn good.

[Daniri]

The difference between SciFi and Fantasy is almost entirely arbitrary. And WarCraft 1 was originally intended as a Warhammer Fantasy game at a time when that was considered to be taking place in the Warhammer 40k universe.

The difference between WarCraft and Star Trek is far more down to the difference in subject matter, where Star Trek is far more concerned with sociopolitics than action, than it is to SciFi vs. Fantasy.

There are subject matters that certain genres, and sub-genres, traditionally deal with that others don't, so I would still think it perfectly acceptable to use them as proxy for that in normal conversation. There's value to be had in realizing the arbitrary nature of any lines we draw, but there's also value in just working with what people really mean/desire, even if they're wrong in how they're expressing it. Certainly it would lead to far more productive conversations than someone trying to argue, "Actually, the Valar came from space, so you're wrong to say you don't like sci-fi elements in fantasy if you like LOTR". That's not being high-minded about genre, it's just trying to shut down someone's perspective with pettiness.

And I think what people mean when they bemoan the loss of Warcraft's fantasy identity isn't about strong feelings about genre boundaries, but rather the loss of atmosphere that's likely to come by introducing certain elements. However you define the genre of that atmosphere is irrelevant to the fact it's going to change. The conversation should be about how to introduce those elements without changing the atmosphere, or maybe about whether that atmosphere needs to change for the sake of a better setting.

[Izalla]

The biggest mystery to me surrounding a new night elf capital isn't location, but implementation. As early as vanilla, players would only congregate to one city per faction with the others being largely abandoned. After Silvermoon and the Exodar suffered the same fate, new races stopped getting their own capitals and the only new ones we got were to serve as primary hubs for a new expansion's content.

Completely isolated from the story's needs, a new racial capital city currently has no purpose. It'd be a decent amount of environmental work that'd be deserted a few days after the novelty wore off. Gilneas is in the same boat. I'm not sure they have an incentive to develop these cities without some means of making them actual content. The 'easy' way is effectively making them patch hubs, ideally there'd be some kind of evergreen reason to visit other cities again beyond that.

They should all have the Suramar treatment where they actually matter for the questing in the zone and have entire quest chains involving NPCs or areas in the cities. Instead of just being a hub. That way even if they don't have a population of non-questers/levelers, they aren't any more "useless" than any other part of the zone. Treat them like any other area of a zone when coming up with storylines and quest chains, instead of just a city with a handful of quests in it while 95% of the zone quests are outside the city. Hardly a waste of resources then.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

So 1 new promotion this week and it seems like they're starting announcing more blizzcon stuff, some guild clash that will be revealed in few days.

[huth]

There are subject matters that certain genres, and sub-genres, traditionally deal with that others don't, so I would still think it perfectly acceptable to use them as proxy for that in normal conversation. There's value to be had in realizing the arbitrary nature of any lines we draw, but there's also value in just working with what people really mean/desire, even if they're wrong in how they're expressing it. Certainly it would lead to far more productive conversations than someone trying to argue, "Actually, the Valar came from space, so you're wrong to say you don't like sci-fi elements in fantasy if you like LOTR". That's not being high-minded about genre, it's just trying to shut down someone's perspective with pettiness.

And I think what people mean when they bemoan the loss of Warcraft's fantasy identity isn't about strong feelings about genre boundaries, but rather the loss of atmosphere that's likely to come by introducing certain elements. However you define the genre of that atmosphere is irrelevant to the fact it's going to change. The conversation should be about how to introduce those elements without changing the atmosphere, or maybe about whether that atmosphere needs to change for the sake of a better setting.

The problem here is that the lines are so fuzzy and vague that "It's SciFi not Fantasy" is basically a meaningless statement. They aren't truly seperate genres, they're just labels for two areas of the same sliding scale that mostly overlap.

[Zers Editor]

Something I had realized about Tyr.

With the dragons he went on to create the machinery that makes their egg water flowing with Titan energy, to make sure they don't go astray from Order (and cause "another Galakrond" to come about, Danuser stated that the point of this device is to keep the unpredictability of the dragons' growth and their allegiance in check).

And yet, he took in the vrykul, DIRECTLY affected by the Old Gods (the curse of the flesh), which should make them by prone FAR more vulnerable to their influence than the dragons. He himself brings forward that them falling to corruption is a very likely end, that there is no guarantee against it, unlike with the dragons. And YET, he was completely fine with throwing his life away for them (there was no way of knowing back then if the gambit with the new body would've worked).

[Daniri]

The problem here is that the lines are so fuzzy and vague that "It's SciFi not Fantasy" is basically a meaningless statement. They aren't truly seperate genres, they're just labels for two areas of the same sliding scale that mostly overlap.

In that abstract it might be meaningless, but if you zoom in to someone talking about pulse rifles in WoW and calling it "sci fi" while saying they miss the "fantasy" feeling of WC2, are you really going to say you don't understand what they're talking about?