Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Lady Atia]

Next expansion will get revealed and Metzen will try to sell us leper gnomes and giblins as new playable races.

Nothing wrong with Giblins as an allied race to go with Ankoan, and Leper Gnomes can (and should) be a customization option for the revamp - just add a questline were we (this time for real) conquer Gnomeregan and heal the Lepers, but their skin would stay the same.

[Izalla]

I've always felt this way, as well. It feels less like an afterlife and more like a gilded soul-grinder; certainly more grimdark in implication than is congruent with the previously established cosmology. There is no way, in fact, to reasonably reconcile its implications with any of the portrayal of the cosmology up until Shadowlands, and it irrevocably reframes WoW's cosmology as something very futile in nature. The ultimate objective of the existence of mortal life is invariably reduced to being fuel for the Shadowlands if the implications are followed to their logical conclusion, and the only way I could see it being taken forward in any constructive way is if the existence of the Shadowlands serves to scatter people into the hands of any given cosmic force to escape their fate there.

I'm hoping one day they recontexualize it where the manufactured Shadowlands exist to utilize souls that would otherwise pass to true death, like how souls were being funneled into the Maw instead of going where they were meant to go. Like the afterlife in His Dark Materials where souls were trapped in a state they weren't naturally meant to be in, in a place they should never have ended up, for selfish purposes. Kind of like purgatory in that it is between life and actual death, and is not a natural progression. Why else make the concept of the afterlife factory and death basically just being a second life that can end all over again?

[Nymrohd]

I never got to do ZA at all before it was removed and only saw inside ZG once or twice so those dungeons never felt cheap or reused to me. I loved them! And they were at least added.

ZG was also an amazing dungeon by encounter design. Full of mini bosses and unique encounters. It's probably too big and non-linear for it but I'd love to see a M+ version of it.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

Nothing wrong with Giblins as an allied race to go with Ankoan, and Leper Gnomes can (and should) be a customization option for the revamp - just add a questline were we (this time for real) conquer Gnomeregan and heal the Lepers, but their skin would stay the same.

I dunno why, but the thought of these 3 races as featured new allied races makes me go kinda "puke" mode.

But maybe because i just don't like fish irl.

[micwini]

Still loling @ anyone who said that’s an orc

More like lolling at people who thought it was real in any way.

[Shadowferal]

I dunno why, but the thought of these 3 races as featured new allied races makes me go kinda "puke" mode. But maybe because i just don't like fish irl.

I thought this was an intriguing idea:

I want to see 'mini-races' who are their own faction. They'll be attacked (and killed) on sight by any Horde and Alliance guards, they have their own system where they carry out objectives and gather resources throughout the world which they can then trade with through neutral factions.

Just a way to populate the world again with players who have to survive in this highly hostile place and obtain highly exclusive achievement and items for their mains that way.

Murlocs, Virmen, Kobolds and Quilboars would be a perfect first batch.

[Plehnard]

The four zones of the Dragon Isles kind of represent the elements, at least subtly.

• The Waking Shores represents fire.
• The Ohn'ahran Plains represents wind.
• The Azure Span represents water.
• Thaldraszus represents earth.

So do the Primal Incarnates.

• Fyrakk represents fire.
• Razegeth represents wind.
• Vyranoth represents water.
• Iridikron represents earth.

Anyway...

What are the things that are missing from Dragonflight, that were in Cataclysm?

> World revamp

> Thrall

> Queen Azshara

> Twilight dragons

> More direct encounters with the Void and/or the Old Gods' minions

Weren't twilight Dragons in the bronze Dragon quest lines/dungeon?

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I'm hoping one day they recontexualize it where the manufactured Shadowlands exist to utilize souls that would otherwise pass to true death

I've always been partial to using this as an out; I've liked to toss around the idea that the First Ones are malevolent Demiurge archetypes: it would make sense that the actual afterlife is a more desirable place, whereas the Shadowlands are a spirit-prison made by malefactors who worked tirelessly to distort the natural order. It would also contextualize the egregious extent of their fallibility and the futility of their order as it was portrayed in SL. Of course, this is not the approach I expect CDev to take. I think it's unlikely they'll acknowledge the futility in the cosmology established in SL, much less attempt to rectify its implications, though they have at least indicated they plan to continue acknowledging SL itself.

Aside from the prior suggestion that they could use the implications of SL to drive people to affiliate with a given cosmic force to get everyone on a certain side before the inevitable cosmic war expansion, another thing I think could be milked for future stories is to have the Forsaken go back on the warpath or have the emergence of new cults designed precisely for the purpose of escaping the Shadowlands: undeath definitely looks less like a curse when you consider the alternative SL has established for us.

[Lady Atia]

I dunno why, but the thought of these 3 races as featured new allied races makes me go kinda "puke" mode.

But maybe because i just don't like fish irl.

I give you: Ankoan, Gilgoblins, Broken and Tuskarr.

Sadly I doubt they would do a wave of allied races were all are super ugly haha. Ankoans prolly have no female model, Gilgoblins could be cute but are still Gilgoblins, female Broken shouldn't have pretty faces and Tuskarr are .... well ... chonky.

[Jaggler]

Weren't twilight Dragons in the bronze Dragon quest lines/dungeon?

Those are infinites, not twilights.

[Santandame]

I’m not late to anything. I posted a tweet of a “better quality image” of the “supposed leak” from a week or two ago. Then, I said “if only”. As in, I wish it were real. When it comes to WoW, I am very alert and up to date.

Well of course you are, you work for Blizzard.

[Foolicious]

Given all the things that have been happening in Zaralek, with Shadowflame, Dracthyr and more, I think the Twilight flight fits pretty well into the story. For example, they could be seeking to corrupt all the eggs gathered around the Ruby Lifepools, turning them into a flight that will herald the Void. The ultimate way to snatch the Titans' prize from their grasp.

I feel like thats why we won't see them. They would fit into the story, but the Dracthyr took that storyline of the perfect crafted race of deathwing. The twilight drakes are basically another experiment of the deathwing family, later perfected by him. Just the same as we saw happened to the dracthyr. And with Sarkareth falling for the void and opening a giant portal in aberrus i think there isn't much left for the twilight drakes to do.

[Teriz]

If toweliee is correct then Blizz should prepare to lose a hell of alot of subscribers as from what I've seen/heard most people hate the idea of Underground even the Hearthstone expansion featuring that subject did not do too well, I know I certainly won't play it and my Guild would probably take a break that expansion.
'''

Kobolds and Catacombs was actually a very successful expansion;



Also both trailers for it from Blizzard was pretty great;




While some may not like the idea of it, such an expansion is pretty classic fare for the fantasy genre, and Blizzard has touched on such concepts before. I've never heard anyone say that they outright despise places like Blackrock mountain, Grim Batol, Gnomeregan, Deepholm, Blackrock Spire or Stonecore despite them being underground. I could see Blizzard doing it just to try something different expansion wise.

[TeamWorldRevamp]

World revamp
Slow down the pace of combat.
Make enemy abilities clearer so that you don't have to spend so much time on youtube to learn them.
Make the whole leveling process an adventure-like experience again, instead of a tedious process to experience the "real game" at max level.

All that or bust, thank you.

[Kiria]

While some may not like the idea of it, such an expansion is pretty classic fare for the fantasy genre, and Blizzard has touched on such concepts before. I've never heard anyone say that they outright despise places like Blackrock mountain, Grim Batol, Gnomeregan, Deepholm, Blackrock Spire or Stonecore despite them being underground. I could see Blizzard doing it just to try something different expansion wise.

Blizz cant afford a catastrophe of trying something new unless they want to lose what little good faith most players have left, an underground expansion is not the way to bring people back or retain them sadly, A Revamp or a Decent story is needed.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

The Gamespot interview continues to be so anamalous and bizarre in context of Towelliees screeching.

Did Ion really talk about Revamp stuff but in reality he's referring to Classic+? Its just baffling if that really is the case.

If that's not the case are they really going to go "By the way after 11.0 when you're stuck underground we're going to do Revamp" carrot on a stick at Blizzcon?

I don't know this whole thing is bizarre to me. They know they need to show some signs of life at Blizzcon and I don't really see any of the ideas outside of Revamp working anymore.


So again I don't know nothing trustworthy anywhere.

Official sources are lying and making no sense when compared to other people and yes maybe Towelliee is on a mission to red herring spam to scare and frighten people into thinking its just over and then its not because it was all part of a psyop to make people lose faith and then become overhyped after Opening Ceremony.


At least the CG thing is now out the window. I keep an eye out for Trademarks for the next weeks but I really doubt Blizzard would do anything in that vein considering how that would clearly tell us Blizzard want clarity in the space.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

Blizz cant afford a catastrophe of trying something new unless they want to lose what little good faith most players have left, an underground expansion is not the way to bring people back or retain them sadly, A Revamp or a Decent story is needed.

I think at most it could be 1 zone being underground but i already know after zaralek cavern that it would be still my least used zone because i just like to "breath" in games.
For me being in the zone that is out in the open and going from time to time to some mysterious cave for a quest is much better than whole undeground zone.

Edit: While BFA might not be one of my favorite expansions, the zones are 100% on my top list like stormsong valley and such.

[Teriz]

Blizz cant afford a catastrophe of trying something new unless they want to lose what little good faith most players have left, an underground expansion is not the way to bring people back or retain them sadly, A Revamp or a Decent story is needed.

Eh, I think Blizzard could pull it off. We can't say it would be a catastrophe until it is attempted. The reason I don't think a cosmic expansion could work is because of Shadowlands for example. Mists of Pandaria for example sounds terrible on paper; A parody of China where fat Panda people do their own form of Kung Fu against evil Mantis people that make buildings out of their spit. Yet in execution it's one of the best expansions ever made.

[Kiria]

I think at most it could be 1 zone being underground but i already know after zaralek cavern that it would be still my least used zone because i just like to "breath" in games.
For me being in the zone that is out in the open and going from time to time to some mysterious cave for a quest is much better than whole undeground zone.

Edit: While BFA might not be one of my favorite expansions, the zones are 100% on my top list like stormsong valley and such.

Pretty much how I feel, Zaralek was awful and I never want to go there again nor does any other player and it shows due to complaints in the EU forums the feeling is very mutual amongst players with very few actually enjoying it.

[Sondrelk]

Eh, I think Blizzard could pull it off. We can't say it would be a catastrophe until it is attempted. The reason I don't think a cosmic expansion could work is because of Shadowlands for example. Mists of Pandaria for example sounds terrible on paper; A parody of China where fat Panda people do their own form of Kung Fu against evil Mantis people that make buildings out of their spit. Yet in execution it's one of the best expansions ever made.

It would however start on the backfoot by having to prove it's a good idea, rather than stuff like the Dragon Isles which conversely has to prove it's not a bad one.
Underground is a very specific concept which the average player likely isnt immediately onboard with, similar to the Shadowlands. It could be good, but it has that extra hurdle to cross.

A world revamp has a whole bunch of fallbacks that it could go to if the actual world revamp isnt all that it's cracked up to be. Several well known locations that could be mined for interesting dungeons or quests. The all important nostalgia factor is very much in play in this case.

MoP is exactly what we are talking about with an underground expansion. Players were against it to start with, and had to prove it was good. Conversely expansions like BfA has more leeway because the concept is so appealing that it had to repeatedly prove it was bad for the mood to sour.


In short: An underground expansion will be a bad idea because Blizzard doesnt have enough goodwill, or enough support around the Underground concept to sell an expansion on that alone.
Maybe if Zaralek cavern was absolutely beloved by the community and everyone were clamoring for more content there. But they are not, most people seem quite happy to leave it behind, even if some people like it. I loved Vashj'ir, but that doesnt mean I think it would be a good idea for a full expansion, just that I would love it.