Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Xilurm]

I am sure danuser did some cool things, but I don't think many people liked the story of the jailer and how he waited millenia for his plot to succeed and this double agent idea of the dreadlords and those uber-titans and that elune might be a robot ("sister" of winterqueen)
You know.... I really dont think many people like this Really. Like.... 99% sure.
On the other hand the story since bfa was as detailed as it has never been. Even if sylvanas was mildly annoying, at least the story was not boring or uninteresting.
Let's see what blizzcon brings with Metzen, I think it will be awesome. Pretty thirsty for some "american" show. I really didnt like the last patch presentations with those devs on the couch.

Everything would've been pretty good if the Jailer wasn't retconned to be the catalyst to most things in the franchise. Or, if he was, he needed at least 3 expansions to himself. And only reveal the fact that he was responsible for so many things at the end.

The pacing was absolute ass.

BaumanKing here probably thinks that people not liking bad pacing and storytelling is people being afraid of change.

[Samin]

can you provide an example of what since his return metzen brought that you like?

I was hoping the second paragraph starting with "But seriously" would be enough to indicate the previous to not be taken seriously. It was supposed to poke fun at people crediting individuals with the state of the game one way or another.

[KurtMash]

On one hand, I understand why people are upset with the Pantheon of Death being basically robots... But one the other hand - isn't it basically the same thing the Titan Keepers (and all other Titanforged races) are? I don't ever see people complaining that Tyr or Odyn are "robots".

[Skildar]

Yeah, you keep telling yourself that.

Bringing the first ones and expanding the cosmology are right moves for the longevity of the game. They've gained back the mysticism that the titan lore lost for quite some time. And the recent lore addition around the shaping of Azeroth, Odyn and his views of the mortal races are all good benefits. The wow lore team has done a good job lately.

It's the narrative direction that is as crappy as ever. They've portrayed the incarnation correctly up to 10.1 then completely gave up. But every expansion story has been a rollercoaster of regret, this one is no exception.

[Kiivar86]

On one hand, I understand why people are upset with the Pantheon of Death being basically robots... But one the other hand - isn't it basically the same thing the Titan Keepers (and all other Titanforged races) are? I don't ever see people complaining that Tyr or Odyn are "robots".

Hell Mimiron is a robot.

[Aucald]

Also Aucald, does Classic discussion have any place here?

Not really, no - the subject of this thread concerns future content for 10.x and 11.x specifically, which isn't really relevant for the Classic servers and services. No issue with mentioning them obliquely or in passing, of course, but this isn't the thread for a protracted discussion of any flavor of Classic.

[Xilurm]

Bringing the first ones and expanding the cosmology are right moves for the longevity of the game. They've gained back the mysticism that the titan lore lost for quite some time. And the recent lore addition around the shaping of Azeroth, Odyn and his views of the mortal races are all good benefits. The wow lore team has done a good job lately.

Well, yes. That's good. I care more about the First Ones than I ever did about the Jailer or the Eternal Ones. I still care about the Titans even though revealing them and having them literally in our face took a lot of the mysticism away.

However, how long do you think that's going to last? Soon they will reveal Elune to us, and I don't doubt the First Ones will be next.

[Shadowferal]

Bringing the first ones and expanding the cosmology are right moves for the longevity of the game.

Hard disagree. We never should've come this close to such beings. It took away any mystique and worse, made them no better than mortal races...which didn't make sense to me.

[huth]

Game was solid without ongoing development after release.

The hell are you talking about? One of the complaints about WoD was that it basically didn't have that and got shit like Twitter integration.

WoW has been in constant ongoing development since 1.0. Specs have changed every patch since then, too.

What game have you been playing? Some old MMO that died before WoW even released?

[Dracullus]

This towly's tweets are starting to piss me off

what pisses me off even more is that Blizzard turned WOW into Transmog game with pseudo-elite raids for 5 days of progression, which are constantly changed, tuned, nerfed, the same goes for classes - adding specs, reworking them during the expansion (WTF), just to nerefing them to the ground only to make them S-Tier super meta a week later. This game is a entire circus right now, not to mention the ilvl range between patches and squishing everything every damn expansion...

people complain eg about Drenor and maybe there were no mythic plus or other crap there. But the game was as it was released.
Game was solid without ongoing development after release.

So new wave of bitching is that Blizzard doesn't leave their expacs to rot after release. xD

[Nymrohd]

This x 1000.

The Titans, Elune, and all of those beings should've been kept in the background. It was perfect back in the day, when we'd unearth an ancient Titan artifact with the Explorer's League, or at most encountered their Keepers.

Really the entire mistake was the end of Legion. The scale of that ending was fit for ending the game, or doing so in 1-2 expacs at most. I love going epic but they went too far.

[Sondrelk]

On one hand, I understand why people are upset with the Pantheon of Death being basically robots... But one the other hand - isn't it basically the same thing the Titan Keepers (and all other Titanforged races) are? I don't ever see people complaining that Tyr or Odyn are "robots".

The Pantheon of Death was supposed to be on the same level as the Titans though. So it's not really the same thing.

It very much downplays all cosmology that came before by making the First Ones effectively the new Titans. They ordered everything, and have robotic servants to carry out their will.

Honestly I would have just gone for the reveal that the Titans created the Shadowlands. Would have made for a much better twist while achieving basically the same thing. Not to mention that it would furhter put emphasis on the Titans putting so much effort into Azeroth.

[Cheezits]

I can't tell if Towellie is trolling or if he really thinks Classic + is happening.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I can't tell if Towellie is trolling or if he really thinks Classic + is happening.

Could be a psyop honestly. The Gamespot interview basically has to be read in a very weird particular way for it to make sense that Ion is talking about Classic+ rather than Retail having Revamps.

Towelliee seems adamant that Retail Team has never and will never do revamp and has been pointing towards underground.

[Sondrelk]

Could be a psyop honestly. The Gamespot interview basically has to be read in a very weird particular way for it to make sense that Ion is talking about Classic+ rather than Retail having Revamps.

Towelliee seems adamant that Retail Team has never and will never do revamp and has been pointing towards underground.

The fact that Toweliee is adamant that there won't be a revamp, even as Ion had that interview where he talked about a revamp being a definite at some point is definitely interesting.
One of them has to be lying, and I would bet on the liar being the one whose career is predicated on being relevant, rather than the one whose career is predicated on player goodwill.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Eh, Ion decided to spit on the audience again with his comments on Old Gods and Emerald Dream. So again, I don't trust Ion for a second anymore. He's still upset about Ny'alotha and how the audience reacted to the whole BFA Narrative eating several expansion concepts.

I'm just happy that Holly said that we will be able to buy our Tenders soon through the shop!

Holly's 8 week cadence comment remains to be seen. The Game Files state otherwise and indicate we are cutting this expansion off and moving into the next one without the Game Director outlining what our expansions consist of.

[Samin]

That's pretty accurate. I guess Metzen saw Sargeras as the big bad of the WoW universe he created, and it felt like an appropriate thing at the time. Problem is, since then they've just kept up with that pacing, introducing gods in every expansion. We need a hard reset in 11.0, which is why I think the Void should just smack us in the face and force us to restart somewhat.

World of Warcraft: Eclipse/Umbra/Nightfall/Twilight/Whatever

The Harbinger successfully covers Azeroth in a perpetual darkness, centred on the Maelstrom. The entire side of the planet that we know is suffering, as the foul beasts of the Void make their move on its cities.

We travel to the light, to Avaloren. A place of hope. On the complete opposite side from the Maelstrom. We build a resistance. We recruit allies. We save a lot of our people, letting them resettle in this new land.

Then we strike against Queen Azshara, ultimately ending their plans and restoring Azeroth. Come 12.0, and the Old World is revamped.

The void is not strong enough. I really really really hope Blizzard will dismantle the void's strong PR/propaganda just as they did with the Light and Order.

While Light and Order was more about their supposed unquestioned benevolence, for the void it is more about their unquestioned inevitability. That's not to say the void would just turn out to be "a dude behind a curtain", but that the news of their impending victory have been greatly exaggerated.

[Dracullus]

Eh, Ion decided to spit on the audience again with his comments on Old Gods and Emerald Dream. So again, I don't trust Ion for a second anymore. He's still upset about Ny'alotha and how the audience reacted to the whole BFA Narrative eating several expansion concepts.

I'm just happy that Holly said that we will be able to buy our Tenders soon through the shop!

Holly's 8 week cadence comment remains to be seen. The Game Files state otherwise and indicate we are cutting this expansion off and moving into the next one without the Game Director outlining what our expansions consist of.

Words of wisdom like this are clear sign leak season is in full force and this thread will soon become nothing more than shitpost board.

The fact that Toweliee is adamant that there won't be a revamp, even as Ion had that interview where he talked about a revamp being a definite at some point is definitely interesting.
One of them has to be lying, and I would bet on the liar being the one whose career is predicated on being relevant, rather than the one whose career is predicated on player goodwill.

No. If Morgan Day would say there won't be a revamp in future and Ion otherwise, that would be interesting. You compare interview of game director to streamer who can't know shit - because if he knows and spill anything, he would be done even without NDA signed.

[Revamp Man]

Sure it has problems, every expansion had them. It's the word "disaster" that just did not work for Cata. No expansion other than WoD and SL had disasters imo.

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BfA had the issue with the weekly cache at launch where a dev said "we changed it 2 weeks before the beta went down and there were no complaints" because they gimped azerite gear acquisition

While solved that was a huge issue

[Jastall]

That one hurts my brain. It doesn't even make sense.

How do you salvage a mobile game as an expansion for WoW? WoW obviously has its own specific engine made out of spaghetti code and unicorn blood. How do you just plaster an abandoned mobile game on top of that? I'm sure Marlamin can fill us in, but my gut says this isn't possible from a technical standpoint.

The other thing is, we know roughly how what the development cycle of WoW expansions looks like. They enter full production about the time the last one is done, so about 2 years per expansion. Is the leak suggesting they just sort of took the theme from the abandoned mobile game 2 years ago, and applied it to WoW? What would even be the benefit of that? Surely, they already had a story in mind for Dragonflight, and I doubt they'd hesitate to just scrap whatever story a simple mobile game had.

The third problem as I see it, is why they'd make a mobile game that looks even remotely similar to a WoW expansion in terms of story and gameplay. Surely, a mobile game would focus on something specific and find its own niche, like Hearthstone.

The sentence about a gap after 9.1 I won't even attempt to understand, it's just gibberish.

While I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of smaller, annual expansions, I doubt they'd go all in with a Battle Pass when they literally just launched the Trading Post system in Deagonflight. That is their version of a Battle Pass. Keep subscribing, get loot.

It doesn't have to make sense, it's 4chan. Everything posted there is either reactionary hyperbole or trollbaiting. Dragonflight has a generally less hardcore artstyle than most previous expansions, and we know cartoony artstyles are for mobile games, therefore Dragonflight was a mobile game and mobile games are bad therefore Dragonflight is bad. Of course the real world doesn't work that way at all and there's already a Warcraft mobile game actually out in beta, but facts must not get in the way of fiction.

It is literally the same brand of logic as "Socrates has teeth, a donkey has teeth, therefore Socrates is a donkey".



WoW isn't becoming free to play anytime soon, I'd wager. They're still selling a couple million expansions every 2 years, of which a large amount will sub for several months if not all its length. The game isn't Wrath level of a money printer, but combine that with the token and services/shop and it's likely still making money hand over fist. The game would need to lose a lot more players for a free to play move to make any sort of sense.