The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Dracullus]

Well, my theory is that they've been slowly re-building EK and KA over the past 3-4 years, gradually adding more remade assets. So that they can release a revamp in time for the 20th anniversary next year.

But we'll see what turns out.

I was hoping that it was Tom Chilton secret project after he was replaced by Ion. Turned out he worked on mobile game xD.

I mean eventually we are going to run out of places to go so revamping old world may be necessary. I am not certain how the playerbase/fanbase will react to that though.

It's impossible too since Azeroth isn't, you know, real place. Reason to do revamp would be rather HUGE nostalgia boost.

Question is how to deal with it. Before 10.0 I thought they need 4 expacs to do it properly which would make next predictions rather boring, but after Dragon Isles I think they are experienced enough to do detailed Kalimdor or EK in single expac (especially if 3 zones would be left for patches).

[micwini]

Well, my theory is that they've been slowly re-building EK and KA over the past 3-4 years, gradually adding more remade assets. So that they can release a revamp in time for the 20th anniversary next year.

But we'll see what turns out.

Yep. In BFA Darkshore, Auberdine is rebuild in full HD, yet there was not ever a reason to go there. Not even when it was current.

[Worldshaper]

I'm always dubious about looking at any updated model and going "world revamp!" based on it.

Remember the updates to the mammoth animations? People were so certain a return to Northrend based on that. And...nope.

That said, broken clock and all that jazz so who knows.

Sure, the animations might be used for the Dragonflight lava elephants and stuff.

But a model is something different, imo. It's not as likely that, for example, a typical Stormwind building would appear on a new continent, as it is that an animation is re-used for a new creature.

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Yep. In BFA Darkshore, Auberdine is rebuild in full HD, yet there was not ever a reason to go there. Not even when it was current.

Yeah, that's one of my arguments for a world revamp. Although we should be cautious about leaning too much on it.

There was a Warfront in Darkshore, and we're still not sure if a Barrens Warfront got scrapped IIRC. So those assets might have been re-used for WSG and Darkshore.

But it is suspicious, still. And exciting to think about.

I'm pretty much of the belief that recent expansions (aside from maybe Shadowlands) have largely been built with the revamp in mind. Especially BfA and DF. There are just so many natural biomes that you find on EK and KA. For example, the jungles of Zandalar can be re-used for Stranglethorn Vale.

[Grimbold21]

Yep. In BFA Darkshore, Auberdine is rebuild in full HD, yet there was not ever a reason to go there. Not even when it was current.

But is that what a revamp is? Or should I say: is that what people expect from a revamp? To replace 2004 looking assets with modernized ones? If we're going with Cata standards, one would guess that a revamp entails zone and quest redesign, no?

[micwini]

Sure, the animations might be used for the Dragonflight lava elephants and stuff.

But a model is something different, imo. It's not as likely that, for example, a typical Stormwind building would appear on a new continent, as it is that an animation is re-used for a new creature.

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Yeah, that's one of my arguments for a world revamp. Although we should be cautious about leaning too much on it.

There was a Warfront in Darkshore, and we're still not sure if a Barrens Warfront got scrapped IIRC. So those assets might have been re-used for WSG and Darkshore.

But it is suspicious, still. And exciting to think about.

I'm pretty much of the belief that recent expansions (aside from maybe Shadowlands) have largely been built with the revamp in mind. Especially BfA and DF. There are just so many natural biomes that you find on EK and KA. For example, the jungles of Zandalar can be re-used for Stranglethorn Vale.

Shadowlands too. Lots of stuff could be used for plaguelands

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But is that what a revamp is? Or should I say: is that what people expect from a revamp? To replace 2004 looking assets with modernized ones? If we're going with Cata standards, one would guess that a revamp entails zone and quest redesign, no?

This as well, but I would guess redoing all the assets is by far the most work. Remember that they have a whole team dedicated to outdoor content now. And seeing how the Dragon Isles are so large, yet still pumped full with stuff, I don't think redoing the quests is that much work compared to redoing all the art.

[Cheezits]

I'd like people to note that in the files there is currently a suite of items labeled "frontier" that are generic alliance and horde walls and outposts, such as the HD inn, towers, etc. It could be for a new continent or a base building mode (housing?) but I think it also could be props for creating new towns in a revamp.

But there are a ridiculous amount of HD things introduced in the Dragonflight files that are NOT used in Dragonflight at all.

https://twitter.com/keyboardturn/sta...00462882697217

Also a new Windrider flying station.

[Zulggun]

As a Shaman, it's the opposite.
the 10.1 set looks both over-detailed and boring at the same time.

You really think it's worse than 10.0 set? That was just a bunch of rocks glued together.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I'd like people to note that in the files there is currently a suite of items labeled "frontier" that are generic alliance and horde walls and outposts, such as the HD inn, towers, etc. It could be for a new continent or a base building mode (housing?) but I think it also could be props for creating new towns in a revamp.

But there are a ridiculous amount of HD things introduced in the Dragonflight files that are NOT used in Dragonflight at all.

https://twitter.com/keyboardturn/sta...00462882697217

Also a new Windrider flying station.

I have serious doubts that if there is a Revamp it would be a serious one. Just too many elements going atm that just leads me to believe that people are overhyping it.

I'm just saying that people will most likely find themselves in a lite-Revamp expansion with lots of stupid massive other narrative stuff going on and not an actual Revamp expansion like people want.

[Cheezits]

I have serious doubts that if there is a Revamp it would be a serious one. Just too many elements going atm that just leads me to believe that people are overhyping it.

I'm just saying that people will most likely find themselves in a lite-Revamp expansion with lots of stupid massive other narrative stuff going on and not an actual Revamp expansion like people want.

I'm not expecting a full Cata 2 but a graphical revamp with new quests in old zones sounds likely. I can't see all these redone assets being used solely for Avaloren or something.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I'm pretty much of the belief that recent expansions (aside from maybe Shadowlands) have largely been built with the revamp in mind. Especially BfA and DF. There are just so many natural biomes that you find on EK and KA. For example, the jungles of Zandalar can be re-used for Stranglethorn Vale.

As much as I honestly want a world revamp, I have some trouble believing it. Perhaps I'm simply cynical about the amount of effort Blizzard is willing to put in for minimal payout, but it does feel like this long-promised development on the world revamp expansion is a tad optimistic, and that the likelihood of Blizzard pursuing a project like that is somewhat mild. If it does come to be revealed that Blizzard really has been preparing for a massive 20th anniversary world revamp all along, mind you, I would be quite happy, but I feel like you're putting a tad too much stock into fairly circumstantial evidence that can be explained away in other ways.

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They can revamp any part of old world into 70-80 continent, would cost exactly same resources as regular expac.

If it were specifically a single region, I'd hope for Lordaeron for two reasons—firstly, because it's a good setting for a variety of hanging plotlines that were abandoned after BfA, and secondly, because it is probably the last opportunity Blizzard will ever have to introduce a Necromancer class to the game. Although I am cynical about its prospects due to the few niches left that it could occupy and the thematic uncertainty of it, justification for a Necromancer class would be enough for me.

I will say that a single region revamp also does feel far more likely than a global revamp—it would make sense to return to Lordaeron now that we're running out of landmasses.

[Cheezits]

Just based on the assets being redone, everything is pointing towards a redone EK before Kalimdor. However there are a good amount of updated Nelf assets that would pad out many territories on Kalimdor.

But there aren't a lot of Orc, Tauren, Goblin, Draenei and Darkspear assets being retooled at the moment. Meanwhile we just got a Dwarf tank following most Human assets being redone, an updated Tirisfal and Forsaken government (Gnomes too), multiple updates to Blood Elf assets (even in this expansion: see the Reliquary items) and more.

[Alanar]

Just based on the assets being redone, everything is pointing towards a redone EK before Kalimdor. However there are a good amount of updated Nelf assets that would pad out many territories on Kalimdor.

But there aren't a lot of Orc, Tauren, Goblin, Draenei and Darkspear assets being retooled at the moment. Meanwhile we just got a Dwarf tank following most Human assets being redone, an updated Tirisfal and Forsaken government, multiple updates to Blood Elf assets (even in this expansion: see the Reliquary items) and more.

To me it just seems like stuff that needed to be updated anyway. Remember when we got a few new hd human buildings, how everyone freaked out.

For what reason? World revamp hasnt happen for 2 expansions in a row. Oke well maybe next one then lol.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I really recommend people to keep their expectation in check. This next expansion with everything going on so far looks to be a chaotic one rather than anything simple like just a Revamp expansion. There are so many plot elements and 10.1 just took a nosedive in narrative progression.

I'd advice strongly to recognize that this next expansion may either be a follow-up, have several themes involved while revamp may be a part of it its just a minor thing and or something completely different altogether.

Based on the comments of the devs about Green and Bronze and we're already a emeralddreamoutdoor. It just feels like Iridikron and the gang may be moved into the next expansion. But yeah, I have a hard time believing in a full blown out Revamp with EK and Kalimdor storylines and content. It just does seem hyper unlikely at the current.

[Alanar]

I have serious doubts that if there is a Revamp it would be a serious one. Just too many elements going atm that just leads me to believe that people are overhyping it.

I'm just saying that people will most likely find themselves in a lite-Revamp expansion with lots of stupid massive other narrative stuff going on and not an actual Revamp expansion like people want.

Pretty much exactly what I though. We got to a point that every bush or hd tree update had people come in and shouting world revamp.

[Cheezits]

To me it just seems like stuff that needed to be updated anyway. Remember when we got a few new hd human buildings, how everyone freaked out.

For what reason? World revamp hasnt happen for 2 expansions in a row. Oke well maybe next one then lol.

But it's not being put into live. Why update it if you won't use it?

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I really recommend people to keep their expectation in check. This next expansion with everything going on so far looks to be a chaotic one rather than anything simple like just a Revamp expansion. There are so many plot elements and 10.1 just took a nosedive in narrative progression.

I'd advice strongly to recognize that this next expansion may either be a follow-up, have several themes involved while revamp may be a part of it its just a minor thing and or something completely different altogether.

Based on the comments of the devs about Green and Bronze and we're already a emeralddreamoutdoor. It just feels like Iridikron and the gang may be moved into the next expansion. But yeah, I have a hard time believing in a full blown out Revamp with EK and Kalimdor storylines and content. It just does seem hyper unlikely at the current.

ED is very likely this expansion as a patch, after SL they aren't going to do a full expansion of it and the Dragons have heavy connections to life/spirit (and Ysera questline/empty space next to Oharan means it will have something to do with this expansion). Iridikron may live but I think the villain that gets away will be Nozdormu, who can be involved with anything on Azeroth.

[Holdodlig]

Just based on the assets being redone, everything is pointing towards a redone EK before Kalimdor. However there are a good amount of updated Nelf assets that would pad out many territories on Kalimdor.

But there aren't a lot of Orc, Tauren, Goblin, Draenei and Darkspear assets being retooled at the moment. Meanwhile we just got a Dwarf tank following most Human assets being redone, an updated Tirisfal and Forsaken government, multiple updates to Blood Elf assets (even in this expansion: see the Reliquary items) and more.

Don't forget that most NE assets were redone with Legion and are still of good quality to get used in a potential revamp. With all the assets of the revamped Warsong BG from BFA you can also remake half of Kalimdor. You just need to change the color of the leafs and that's it.

A big indicator for a confirmed revamp would be an AV revamp tho.

The only thing that makes me reconsider a revamp right now is trading post. So many possible rewards that are being thrown into that features makes me wonder if they'll actually revamp or if they've decided to move on something else.

[Alanar]

But it's not being put into live. Why update it if you won't use it?

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ED is very likely this expansion as a patch, after SL they aren't going to do a full expansion of it and the Dragons have heavy connections to life/spirit (and Ysera questline/empty space next to Oharan means it will have something to do with this expansion). Iridikron may live but I think the villain that gets away will be Nozdormu, who can be involved with anything on Azeroth.

What exactly is not being put in?

[Cheezits]

What exactly is not being put in?

The HD human houses that have been in the files for two(?) expansions now have not been put on live, anywhere. So if it's just "updating things to update them" then why haven't they been put into the game for multiple years?

The most likely answer is that they will all be deployed together in an upcoming patch or expansion.

[Alanar]

The HD human houses that have been in the files for two(?) expansions now have not been put on live, anywhere. So if it's just "updating things to update them" then why haven't they been put into the game for multiple years?

The most likely answer is that they will all be deployed together in an upcoming patch or expansion.

Ye, I think so to. It's very likely they will be using that in future patches for sure. I mean don't get me wrong I would love a revamp of EK/kalimdor with updated lore and everything, but nothing really jumps out for me then just updates because the some of the models were from 2004.

the HD uther tomb was odd tho.. I though SL had something to do with it.. or I simply missed the quest associated with it?

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I mean eventually we are going to run out of places to go so revamping old world may be necessary. I am not certain how the playerbase/fanbase will react to that though.

It would defo be some kind of cata 2.0, but honestly the world map bugs me alot.. some places are still not flyable and we are still missing some island that could be cool to add along the updated continent.

Especially the location of the Maelstrom and Nazjatar.

[guro-tchai]

Given the several natures we've seen ascribed to the Void, I think his interpretation that the Void is more a cosmic representation of potential than nothingness is sensible—the Curse of Flesh imparted free will on the Titans' creations, a quality which inherently exponentially increases the number of possibilities per instance of itself, and we've all had the "LE ENDLESS POSUHBILITIES!!!!!one!!1" shoved down our throats so much we want to vomit purple, star-specked ichor into the faces of the writers. I think this might actually tie into other elements of the Void, however—namely, their desire to supplant the Titans. I've considered that the Void Lords may actually be almost cosmic embodiments of opportunity costs, a metaphysical "shadow" of everything that exists representing everything that could exist in its place.

agreed on that interpretation, and that's one way of reinventing the Black Empire - it's literal, absolute freedom.

it could simply be the un-logic of the Void supplanting the solid "is" and "isn't" logic

it's imagination, given form. on a meta level, it's speculation, crushed by the imposition of canon of those who shaped this world.

This sort of reconstructs the role of the Light, too—instead of just representing some other kind of small-o order than the Titans do, which is what has generally been taken from their limiting of possibilities and their theme of stagnancy in excess, perhaps the Light represents the world of the verifiable "Is" and "Isn't"?

maybe i just don't get your point, but still - dissent.
consider the Chronicles cosmic map and compare it to the reframed Grimoire cosmic map. not the details, just the position and shades. while in the former it could be divided in two by a sw-ne diagonal line, showing the good-evil divide, in the latter it's a bit different. the good-evil divide is represented in shading, but the top/bottom parts can also be divided in two camps: Law and Chaos.
for the Order, it's laws of physics, established norms of functioning of the universe; for the Death it's the law of end itself - nothing is eternal; Light is the moral law, imo. "is, was and ought".
for the Void, it's the potential for anything to be true, including something immoral, harmful, not sane in a literal way. the Order can't understand it - and the Light hates it. for the Life, it's the potential of everything to be born and spread. for the Fel, it's the potential to be free and sovereign, which is why they couldn't do anything before a depressed being of Order organized this every-man-a-king army. "could exist, could grow, could do"
if always seemed strange for me why a Void Curse of Flesh turned an Order being into a Life one, but it makes sense if the Curse was a shift toward Chaos lato sensu, weakening the Law side.

That manifesting in the Light exerting dogma by strictly defining everything that is and isn't, and making efforts to spread itself by further setting such boundaries. The conflict between the Light and Void, then, is the conflict between the strictly-defined and the undefined and things which could have been that never came to be due to their potential existence being supplanted by the thing that came to exist instead of them when what is and isn't became defined. The closest comparison, I suppose, is that the Void is like quantum uncertainty and the Light is wave function collapse or measurement.

i will need another coffee, some nicotine candy and a couple more IQ SDs to understand that.

The Void is specifically targeting Azeroth because I think she, as a Titan and being of Order, represents Order in the capacity of conquest—not just the conquest of Order, but rather Order as conquest.

cf. d3, evil can't win disjointed. an Order being, a Law being, fills the role a Chaotic force can't play - organizing to fuel the spread.

but that's one interpretation. i think she's a 7th force, a stem cell, and titans consider her to be one of them because they don't find markers of other forces in her yet. she's sought by all because she's a literal god, which will win against all others.