The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Reive]

Yeah sure, because Blizzard would admit that they have made "mistakes that they can't take back" just to please some classic andys. Metzen is supervising retail, you know the real game that is supposed to get new lore/patches/expansions, not the museum piece that classic is.

metzen is supervising warcraft. wow is only part of it. also, "mistakes that they can't take back" equals mostly to murdering the lore

[Polybius]

Gosh it's hideous. What's wrong with the beak and the eyes of that poor gryphon xD?

That face is terrifying, looks like a long tail on the gryphon too which is odd. The 'W' is mutated. AI is scary, fitting for October.

[Sondrelk]

metzen is supervising warcraft. wow is only part of it. also, "mistakes that they can't take back" equals mostly to murdering the lore

But what part of the lore is so horrendous that you can't ignore or fix it?
Sylvanas will always have been horribly written, but that doesn't prevent Blizzard from having Jameson the freshly risen Forsaken create a cult of personality and making the Forsaken edgy again.

The only difference between that and a complete retcon is whether the lore is literally part of the game or not. BfA would still be horribly written, even if you make Classic+: South Seas, where you do everything correct.

[Reive]

And lets be honest here. Time travel is an established thing in WoW. You could easily just have an expansion go back in time and replay the expansion, just better.

shadowlands changed the cosmology of wow at its core and that goes beyond the level of time travelling we have in wow. the first ones would be still a thing and the shadowlands would still work the way they do now.

[Sondrelk]

shadowlands changed the cosmology of wow at its core and that goes beyond the level of time travelling we have in wow. the first ones would be still a think and the shadowlands would still work the way they do now.

Then you just retcon it.
The Titans are actually the First Ones, and they twisted the Shadowlands into the abomination we saw.
That is basically the lore we could have gotten. The only difference is that we spent an expansion in a shitty expansion rather than a good one. But that is irrelevant to potential future lore.

[Reive]

Then you just retcon it.
The Titans are actually the First Ones, and they twisted the Shadowlands into the abomination we saw.
That is basically the lore we could have gotten. The only difference is that we spent an expansion in a shitty expansion rather than a good one. But that is irrelevant to potential future lore.

blizzard will never retcon it. they will never come out and say "hey, shadowlands is not canon anymore". the best they can do (and they're doing it) is to mitigate the damage and for many it's not enough. Also, shadowlands "ruined" many iconic characters like arthas, sargeras and, worst of all, sylvanas. It also ruined the concept of afterlife and its culture for most races. they also failed to create new interesting long lasting character. denathrius and iridikron are exceptions but they're villains. we have no varian or old syvlanas anymore.

p.s dragonflight made the aspects whiny bitches and robbed us of murozond. this is also bad

[Sondrelk]

blizzard will never retcon it. they will never come out and say "hey, shadowlands is not canon anymore". the best they can do (and they're doing it) is to mitigate the damage and for many it's not enough. Also, shadowlands "ruined" many iconic characters like arthas, sargeras and, worst of all, sylvanas. It also ruined the concept of afterlife and its culture for most races. they also failed to create new interesting long lasting character. denathrius and iridikron are exceptions but they're villains. we have no varian or old syvlanas anymore.

So they cannot retcon stuff in Retail, but they would be happy to retcon stuff in Classic+?

[Nymrohd]

Sylvanas will always have been horribly written, but that doesn't prevent Blizzard from having Jameson the freshly risen Forsaken create a cult of personality and making the Forsaken edgy again.

The Forsaken can only be edgy if they are desperate zombies worshiping someone else who gives them a sense of belonging through abuse?

[Reive]

So they cannot retcon stuff in Retail, but they would be happy to retcon stuff in Classic+?

retail= the events to retcon already happened. retconning them would be admitting failure and blizzard doesn't do that
classic+= the events to "retcon" never happened in the first place so there is no need to retcon anything

kinda different, no?

[ImTheMizAwesome]

I know someone already mentioned it, but since they announced lilith skin for OW from D4, i guess it will have something to do with the blizzcon goodies pack or whatever it is called now.

Maybe i was wrong about this manequin toy being todays new promotion and they will actually reveal blizzcon cosmetics today.

[Sondrelk]

retail= the events to retcon already happened. retconning them would be admitting failure and blizzard doesn't do that
classic+= the events to "retcon" never happened in the first place so there is no need to retcon anything

kinda different, no?

You have a very weird definition of retcon if remaking the expansions doesn't count.

Shadowlands still happened. The lore is currently canon. A Classic+ expansion would still be WoW being retconned.

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The Forsaken can only be edgy if they are desperate zombies worshiping someone else who gives them a sense of belonging through abuse?

Just an example of how whatever flaws of previous expansions could be remedied if that is all a Classic+ expansion would be expected to do.

[Shadowferal]

classic+= the events to "retcon" never happened in the first place so there is no need to retcon anything kinda different, no?

Orcs drink the blood...and save the future by negating the current loads of crap that followed?

[Reive]

You have a very weird definition of retcon if remaking the expansions doesn't count.

Shadowlands still happened. The lore is currently canon. A Classic+ expansion would still be WoW being retconned.

Not the same thing. classic+ would be a reboot of the game done by demand of the community. it's not the same thing as saying shadowlands doesn't count while leaving it in the game. it's also a matter of coherence, which retail lacks

Just an example of how whatever flaws of previous expansions could be remedied if that is all a Classic+ expansion would be expected to do.

You can't replace iconic characters with new ones if you don't give them the proper build up. the jailer proved this. you can't replace sylvanas with jameson the freshly risen forsaken because no one gives a shit about him

[Shadowferal]

The Forsaken can only be edgy if they are desperate zombies worshiping someone else who gives them a sense of belonging through abuse?

Codependency is very much a thing.

[Woggmer]

I’m shocked to see Azsuna and Ardenweald. Ardenweald in my opinion is the best SL zone, by far. Azsuna I have a huge soft spot for. It really does the forgotten realm of an ancient elvish civilisation really well, and I love the Mediterranean aesthetic.

Everything else I agree with except for Nazjatar, which I have a soft spot for despite it not living up to its full potential.

Ardenweald looks beautiful, but they really put a huge emphasis into those weird grub things instead of other facets of the zone. Not to mention that out of all the zones in SL, it is one of the more under-utilized zone. The other half of the map is part of the dungeon and you don't even bother with the upper left area in the map.

Aszuna is... kinda plain looking in terms of design, and there's like four different plots going on that aren't connected to each other. Like you have the Legion attacking from the left along with a demon hunter turned traitor, then you have the Blue Dragonflight and Senegos trying to add more minutes of his life while a Nightborne wants to drain his magical essence... then you've got this weird subplot about the Sea Giants abducting people and keeping them for pets to which you have to go deal.. then there's another subplot involving a pirate cove... and then there's the main plot which is focused on Farondis and the Naga breaching into the zone trying to find the Tidestone... (Again, all this clutter is excessive)

Finally Nazjatar, I don't hate this zone... It just wasn't designed with actual walking in mind... It felt more like it was designed specifically for swimming but with the Tidestone taking away the water it just makes it a nightmare to traverse on ground. (It gets awful when you have to do stuff in that one area in the upper left with all those spider looking crabs lurking and those giant Elite worm monsters.)

[Shadowferal]

You can't replace iconic characters with new ones if you don't give them the proper build up. the jailer proved this. you can't replace sylvanas with jameson the freshly risen forsaken because no one gives a shit about him

A narrative element that should be embraced as law when it comes to writing well.

[towelliee]

Shut up and go fill your face on stream more lol. You don't know anything

Of course I don't

[Makorus]

A narrative element that should be embraced as law when it comes to writing well.

Yet every time Blizzard tries to create new long term characters, they get nuked by fans with "Oh, where's Jaina, where's Sylvanas, where's Thrall"

[Shadowferal]

Yet every time Blizzard tries to create new long term characters, they get nuked by fans with "Oh, where's Jaina, where's Sylvanas, where's Thrall"

An example of not writing well.

Established characters do the introductions, so to speak.

[username993720]

Mounted combat would never work, and I'm not sure why anyone would ever want it. But making ground mounts more dynamic could be exciting.

It does fulfill a certain fantasy. The question is if they can execute it well or not.