The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[AngerFork]

You do understand that if that’s the heroic mount for 11.0 that would be one of the biggest encryption screw ups Blizzard has ever done right?

Which is why it isn’t.

Not to say it wouldn't be a big one, but the history of WoW is filled with expansion hints & the like getting leaked early in part due to data being pushed too early to the client as well as dev leaks. A few examples:

- Halloween masks with Worgen & Goblin faces in Wrath
- The MoP client had an Iron Horde texture with ironhorde in the name.
- The char2.db list that gave away the Allied Races and that they were coming in 7.3.5.
- The Kul Tiran armor set that was leaked before BfA was announced
- Dragonflight being leaked via website source code

It wouldn't exactly be out of character for this to be yet another expansion leak.

[Bwgmon]

Not to say it wouldn't be a big one, but the history of WoW is filled with expansion hints & the like getting leaked early in part due to data being pushed too early to the client as well as dev leaks. A few examples:

- Halloween masks with Worgen & Goblin faces in Wrath
- The MoP client had an Iron Horde texture with ironhorde in the name.
- The char2.db list that gave away the Allied Races and that they were coming in 7.3.5.
- The Kul Tiran armor set that was leaked before BfA was announced
- Dragonflight being leaked via website source code

It wouldn't exactly be out of character for this to be yet another expansion leak.

IIRC, there was also a patch in TBC that accidentally included, like, a tree model with the filename "northrend/howlingfjord" or something along those lines.

[KayRule]

Teriz never ceases to outdo himself by making the most absolute insane and easily refutable claims out there.

The DF and BfA mounts were also partially unencrypted as well, the summon FX for the Tangled Dreamwaver super fucking early, and the sounds and names of Gilded Ravasaur and Seabraid Stallion early as well.

A part of the CE mount being accidentally made available early has happened more times than any of the other one off leaks.

[Ferlion]

Their realms exist outside of the physical universe, and only the Chronicle chart showcased the 2 spheres around Azeroth as "The Shadowlands" and "The Emerald Dream". The Grimoire chart doesn't name either of those, yet the spheres still exist, so I imagine the spheres represent the veils more than anything. Hell, the Dream itself is likely just Life's version of the Veil. Would make sense, considering the Green Dragon went so far into the Dream, she seemingly started to bleed into the Realms of Life. Hell, she felt the presence of Titan level beings there (Likely the Pantheon of Life).

- - - Updated - - -



I imagine Avaloren will be more primal in terms of Element stuff and whatnot. Hell, I imagine we'll see a BUNCH of Spirit elementals or so there.

So I actually have a reason I don't think that's the case.

As far as being more primal, I can see it insofar as the Elementals there are wild and untamed, but not exactly an issue. The Elemental Planes and existence of Firelords and the like would discount that, as those Elemental Lords predate the Titans. So when the Titans/Keepers locked them up, they were likely locked up across the planet.

I don't think "Don't go to the other continent" is something that was always true. I think it didn't become that until whatever "rebellion" happened. I'd speculate that maybe the heretics were Titan constructs that were built and operating over there, but the initial introduction text of Avaloren says they are "pursuing" heretics. Which indicates that they were from Kalimdor.

[Marlamin]

Not to say it wouldn't be a big one, but the history of WoW is filled with expansion hints & the like getting leaked early in part due to data being pushed too early to the client as well as dev leaks.

Even if we limit it only to "encryption fuckups" (which we dont even know if the gryphon texture falls under), 10.2 alone has at least 4 things I would classify as larger fuckups than a skin for an unknown creature that has nothing tied to it other than the focus of this thread.

It doesn't even make the damn list. If it ends up being a skin for an encrypted mount that they simply forgot, then it could be considered a fuckup in retrospect, but still not as bad as most of the encryption mishaps they had this expansion.

[Nightshade711]

Teriz never ceases to outdo himself by making the most absolute insane and easily refutable claims out there.

Tbh he just has to be trolling at this point. No way he can actually believe some of this stuff.

[Ersula]

You do understand that if that’s the heroic mount for 11.0 that would be one of the biggest encryption screw ups Blizzard has ever done right?

Considering we're supposedly getting a whole cup with it, it might be an npc that uses the texture. But the leak that we're getting a "Stormrider" dragonriding cup with the pre-order should tell you its definitely not an Elemental. Elemental mounts aren't even on the pipeline of getting dragonriding animations. I'm guessing the texture is actually the basis for one of the Algarian Stormriders multiple color customization options.

If phase 1 of dragonriding implementation was the original dragonriding mounts, and phase 2 is other dragon mounts. Phase 3 is Gryphons, Hippogryphs & Large birds. Phase 4 is likely other iconic warcraft flying units like Wyverns & Chimera. Phase 5 would probably be Bees & Bats. Its likely way down the pipeline in phase 8 or 9 would be the Elemental flying mounts.

Because Blizzard has never had encrypted things be seen early. It is super weird to try to put forward a fact based on some a factor that can prove unreliable. Zero logic.

That "Nightmarish Emerald Drake" on the wrath classic ptr, that appeared & disappeared from the mount journal. Do we know if that went from accidently unencrypted to encrypted? Or was it just removed entirely?

[Ferlion]

Well, the Heretics could definitely be there as well, but reminder that the Elemental Lords were likely not the only main Elemental guys, assuming Decay and Spirit also had/have an Elemental Lord on Azeroth. of course. So, who knows? Hoping it's a mixture of both ordeals.

Spirit would likely not have an Elemental Lord in the traditional sense. What it would be, to our current understanding, is the Spirit of Life or Spirit of Wilds.

Spirit of the Wilds: We are the Spirit of the Wilds, the essence and souls of all things living. We are the most powerful of all, surpassing the quakes of Earth, the winds of Air, the flames of Fire, and the floods of Water. Speak, Thrall, and tell us why you think you are worthy of our aid.
—Spirit of the Wilds to Thrall during his shaman test.

Thing is, these aren't singular entities. They actively speak in different voices all at once. Life/Spirit as an element is presented as slightly different than the others.

Not really the type of thing that could be locked away.

Funny enough, considering we have evidence in Draenor that Spirit changes stone to flesh, it is possible that it was Yogg Saron manipulated Spirit to create the Curse of Flesh.

[milkmustache]

Even if we limit it only to "encryption fuckups" (which we dont even know if the gryphon texture falls under), 10.2 alone has at least 4 things I would classify as larger fuckups than a skin for an unknown creature that has nothing tied to it other than the focus of this thread.

It doesn't even make the damn list. If it ends up being a skin for an encrypted mount that they simply forgot, then it could be considered a fuckup in retrospect, but still not as bad as most of the encryption mishaps they had this expansion.

What can you share with us, dear wise one?

[Myrrh]

So back to expansion things.

We have a bit of an interesting thing here. Traditionally, we think of the Old Gods as the primary antagonist to the Titans. The Void the one that causes issues. We've all assumed that Iridikron is going to do some void stuff. In addition, we assume that Avaloren heretics are void or Black Empire worshippers.

But, I mean... That doesn't really fit, right?

Avaloren is a clear reference to Avalon. Which is the realm of Fae and Fairies. In addition, most Old God forces we've seen so far don't really seem to be the type to fight each other until they turn on each other, which is their nature. Beyond that, the bit of the Green Dragon making a new home and a clutch of young ALSO tends to imply something other than the Void.

I think Avaloren is going to be adherents of life more than void, and we're going to see some really crazy stuff.

I'm definitely leaning towards this interpretation of the heretics following the new world tree roots lore. Funny, genuinely never occurred to me that the keepers would view adherants of other forces as heretics - but of course they would. Especially if they happened to be former titanforged - and there were teasers of 'guardians' arriving to guard the roots.

Celtic/gaelic themed fae would be ace, but the whole tree thing still has me wondering if we aren't going to get an Asgard vibe, with the various peoples separated by the world tree roots. Dwarves are considered a type of fey in the nordic myth too, so blizz could make that a bit more literal with the evolutionary direction of these particular earthen.

To dig even deeper in this particular line of myth, I thought this prose was interesting considering the green dragon seeking the source of the wind. An eagle-giant-thing would back away from unnecessary elemental fatigue, too:

He is called Hræsvelg,
who sits at heaven’s end,
a giant, in the shape of an eagle;
from his wings
they say the wind comes over all people.

[Teriz]

You don’t know that, & you’ll definitely be disappointed when it is.

A shadowy gryphon mount that has nothing related to shadow or void in its name? I doubt I'll be disappointed at all.

Your logic astounds me. We’ve got:
1. Gryphons getting dragonriding animations despite no known new gryphon mounts that use them.
2. A new gryphon mount texture added in the patch with the anims.
3. New race called “storm rider”
4. A mount called “Algarian Stormrider” being discovered as the preorder bonus in the same patch.
5. Knowing that Khaz Algar is a dwarf place, AND knowing that dwarf culture links the name “stormrider” with gryphons and dwarves….

But none of that is relevant and it’s an elemental mount because of… thrall?
(Despite elementals not having dragonriding anims and the fact that we know dragonriding is going to be carried forward & brought to the rest of the game)

You do understand that none of that needs to apply to the heroic mount of the expansion right? Just because Gryphons are getting dragonriding animations doesn't mean that the heroic mount for the expansion requires dragonriding animations. You also do understand that there's a difference between dragonriding mounts and standard mounts correct?

Riiiight… because a mount that could be only he related to a zone (like the dread raven mount) is a bigger screw-up than:
The entire map to Kul Tiras being datamined on items named “Kul Tiras Outdoor” during Legion… or “Dragonflight” being datamined before the announcement… or the “Emerald Dream Zone” items datamined in 10.1… the list goes on for probably every single expansion.

Yeah, I'm not going to get into a debate about opinions in regards to what's a bigger screwup. I simply said it'd be one of the biggest screw ups they've done considering the history of how they've encrypted heroic mounts before, which is why I don't believe they did it. That shadowy gryphon is more likely an entirely different mount entirely, if its a mount at all. Also it should be noted that Blizzard does intentionally leak stuff from time to time.

[Marlamin]

What can you share with us, dear wise one?

I already mentioned the maps, but for example this comes to mind from yesterday's PTR build.

[Ersula]

Well, the Heretics could definitely be there as well, but reminder that the Elemental Lords were likely not the only main Elemental guys, assuming Decay and Spirit also had/have an Elemental Lord on Azeroth. of course. So, who knows? Hoping it's a mixture of both ordeals.

Ironically the existence of Elementals is tied to the Ordering of the universe. If they would have been allowed to mix freely life would have emerged in the form of even stranger creatures. Obviously the Titans wanted to control what kinds of creatures were allowed to live. This is a similar principal to Decay Elementals appearing in Maldraxxus, where Necrotic magic is concentrated.

[Izalla]

Even if we limit it only to "encryption fuckups" (which we dont even know if the gryphon texture falls under), 10.2 alone has at least 4 things I would classify as larger fuckups than a skin for an unknown creature that has nothing tied to it other than the focus of this thread.

It doesn't even make the damn list. If it ends up being a skin for an encrypted mount that they simply forgot, then it could be considered a fuckup in retrospect, but still not as bad as most of the encryption mishaps they had this expansion.

My favourite screw up (can't remember if actually encryption related or not) was them accidentally letting us find out about the underground zone way back before Dragonflight even launched and it having something like "RENAME THIS" attached to it. That was a silly yikes moment.

[Ferlion]

Btw...have we ever met these spirits?

Us the players, or us the characters?

What I mean is, we've seen these spirits in the lore. Nobundo and Thrall both encountered them.

In game, I don't think we've actually ever seen a traditional life elemental or spirit elemental. In fact, I think the only place we've ever seen something like that is Hearthstone.

The same is, I believe, true for Decay on Azeroth.

Which makes a certain amount of sense.

Both Spirit and Decay are presented less as traditional elementals and more as fundamental forces of reality. Even when Nobundo was first introduced to the Elements, his reaction was "Man, the Spirit of Life is huge.. I'm nowhere near ready for this".

And also, Spirit and Decay both control the other elementals/elements of Azeroth. Life/Spirit keeps the Elements in balance. Decay is used to force Elementals to do something.

[Explicit Teemo Nudes]

Even if we limit it only to "encryption fuckups" (which we dont even know if the gryphon texture falls under), 10.2 alone has at least 4 things I would classify as larger fuckups than a skin for an unknown creature that has nothing tied to it other than the focus of this thread.

It doesn't even make the damn list. If it ends up being a skin for an encrypted mount that they simply forgot, then it could be considered a fuckup in retrospect, but still not as bad as most of the encryption mishaps they had this expansion.

Are you sure all of these things are actually fuckups then, and not their way of building some "hype" because speculation and leak season builds hype?
You would think they would learn eventually after so many fuckups.

[Teriz]

Considering we're supposedly getting a whole cup with it, it might be an npc that uses the texture. But the leak that we're getting a "Stormrider" dragonriding cup with the pre-order should tell you it's definitely not an Elemental. Elemental mounts aren't even on the pipeline of getting dragonriding animations. I'm guessing the texture is actually the basis for one of the Algarian Stormriders multiple color customization options.

Nothing says that the heroic mount for the expansion needs to be a dragonriding mount. I also seriously doubt that Blizzard would make the heroic mount a dragonriding mount since you wouldn't be able to fully utilize the mounts features until later levels, and you wouldn't be able to fully unlock any storm riding features until the next expansion. Meanwhile, heroic mounts that you get when you pre-order the next expansion are available as soon as you pre-order.

[Ersula]

"Yogg Saron manipulated Spirit to create the Curse of Flesh."

I believe that!

But we know how he created the Curse of Flesh: He hacked the Forge of Wills. He basically (ironically) used a backdoor encryption on the Titan's wifi that tells their constructs what to do; which was "grow lungs"

Nothing says that the heroic mount for the expansion needs to be a dragonriding mount. I also seriously doubt that Blizzard would make the heroic mount a dragonriding mount since you wouldn't be able to fully utilize the mounts features until later levels, and you wouldn't be able to fully unlock any storm riding features until the next expansion. Meanwhile, heroic mounts that you get when you pre-order the next expansion are available as soon as you pre-order.

Did you miss the "Storm Rider" cup Feat of Strength achievements? You're saying that you can't use the mount the dragonriding cup is named after, in that dragonriding cup?

[Ferlion]

But we know how he created the Curse of Flesh: He hacked the Forge of Wills. He basically (ironically) used a backdoor encryption on the Titan's wifi that tells their constructs what to do; which was "grow lungs"

But that isn't exactly how the Forge of Wills worked, right?

Titanforged didn't just start getting pumped out as flesh beings. They turned into flesh over time. What I mean by "Manipulated spirit to create the curse of flesh" is Spirit is what he used to hack said Forge of Wills.

[Marlamin]

My favourite screw up (can't remember if actually encryption related or not) was them accidentally letting us find out about the underground zone way back before Dragonflight even launched and it having something like "RENAME THIS" attached to it. That was a silly yikes moment.

Not an encryption screw up but still a pretty good one, yeah. Another good one is the map literally named "10.0 Emerald Dream - zone2 Scenario" zone 2 being the zone for the second patch being in the first ever Dragonflight build, but nobody picked up on it until way later when the builds surfacted to the public (it was the same build that had the giant tree in the empty bit in Ohn'aran Plains where the zone now is). Wasn't discussed publicly until 10.2 was announced.

Are you sure all of these things are actually fuckups then, and not their way of building some "hype" because speculation and leak season builds hype?
You would think they would learn eventually after so many fuckups.

I don't subscribe to the "Blizzard intentionally leaks stuff" theory, at least not for 90% of the stuff that leaks out. The work they've done to improve the encryption systems has helped a lot, but it is still extremely finicky and things slip through the cracks all the time.

Actively trying to partially encrypt stuff so parts leak out is something I'm not sure they'd go through the effort of doing. Same goes for the web API stuff or other avenues of things leaking out, they're all far too obscure for someone to put time into making systems work that way. In most cases I can even speculate on how something could have slipped through the cracks of the (largely automated) encryption system as there's usually some obscure edge case or missing link between files that would have caused it, at least for DB2 files.