The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Teriz]

It wouldn't exactly be out of character for this to be yet another expansion leak.

While true, I simply don't believe this is one of those times. I believe this is unfortunately another case of posters on this forum latching heavily onto an item with little evidence to support their assertions. Just like those void pictures a few weeks ago.

[Ersula]

Titanforged didn't just start getting pumped out as flesh beings. They turned into flesh over time. What I mean by "Manipulated spirit to create the curse of flesh" is Spirit is what he used to hack said Forge of Wills.

What is all this spirit talk? Spirit is the same thing that made the Elementals live in the first place so why would it exist as its own thing? Eonar could make animals so we know they can do these things on their own. It naturally would have taken a long time to grow lungs, a circulatory system, bones, etc.

[Ferlion]

"According to the Codex of Blood, Murmur was born long ago in a dimension of the cosmos unfathomable to mortal minds. It was so powerful that its entrance into existence shattered all reality around it. Mindless and existing only for chaos, its barest whisper was enough to destroy entire worlds"

Honestly, Murmur COULD be an element of Disorder that manifested into the Physical Universe. Sound is an aspect of disorder and confusion of course. But it is likely we could see a Cosmic Elemental domain, idk...

- - - Updated - - -



I mean, that's fair, but it is likely he used the Forge of Wills and utilized both Void and Spirit energies to create the curse of Flesh to begin with. I wouldn't be shocked. Galakrond's situation was the result of Void and Decay magics seemingly mixing, namely due to Yogg-Saron. So, him utilizing both Spirit and Void would make sense.

Right. See.

The Elemental Lords we see in Azeroth (And I think Draenor is the same base ones) are all things that exist, but aren't really seen as fundamental forces of creation. Fire, Water, Air, Earth.

Life/Spirit is seen as a fundamental force of creation, similar to Decay/Death, Light/Void.

Now, we've seen Light Elementals, which does indicate that these forces can manifest directly. Hell, Voidwalkers are just that.

I think Murmur is a great example, because he is flat out said to be a creature from outside of reality, from a different dimension. I think it's more than fair to say Murmur was likely a force from one of the other fundamental forces as represented by Blizzard.

- - - Updated - - -

What is all this spirit talk? Spirit is the same thing that made the Elementals live in the first place so why would it exist as its own thing? Eonar could make animals so we know they can do these things on their own. It naturally would have taken a long time to grow lungs, a circulatory system, bones, etc.

Because it IS it's own thing.

This is undisputable. It's directly stated in lore, several times. It's not only directly stated, it's actively represented as being a unique and primary elemental source that can be used by people.

Monks get their powers from tapping into the spirit element within their own bodies.

[Teriz]

Did you miss the "Storm Rider" cup Feat of Strength achievements? You're saying that you can't use the mount the dragonriding cup is named after, in that dragonriding cup?

I'm saying that if the heroic mount is a gryphon and its designed for "storm riding" in 11.0, then the full features associated with that mount won't be available until 11.0, because that's when the options for the gryphon come into play, because they're no doubt related to the thematic of 11.0, not 10.2.

For example, imagine if the Tangled Dreamweaver mount was a dragonriding mount. Pre-purchasers had access to that mount in 9.2, before dragonriding was even implemented and Dragonflight was released. So you would have had a mount with limited features until dragonriding opened up in 10.0.1. However, since the Dreamweaver was a standard mount, pre-purchasers got the full features of the mount regardless of level and regardless of patch.

That's the point; The heroic expansion mount is going to be available in 10.2, LONG before the next expansion releases, so the idea that it's going to be using dragonriding features from the next expansion is a bit far-fetched.

[Izalla]

Isn't the reason we don't see spirit manifestations because we have so little of it running amok because the world soul gobbled it up? No idea about decay. But I thought that was the difference between the elements on Draenor and Azeroth was that they had plenty of spirit on Draenor and Azeroth was lacking in spirit.

[KayRule]

Nothing says that the heroic mount for the expansion needs to be a dragonriding mount. I also seriously doubt that Blizzard would make the heroic mount a dragonriding mount since you wouldn't be able to fully utilize the mounts features until later levels, and you wouldn't be able to fully unlock any storm riding features until the next expansion. Meanwhile, heroic mounts that you get when you pre-order the next expansion are available as soon as you pre-order.

They're backporting it to the older zones and we already know Gryphons are getting the animation set, and we know from the texture of the gryphon that it has multiple beak textures for different customization options like a Dragon mount.

- - - Updated - - -

That's the point; The heroic expansion mount is going to be available in 10.2, LONG before the next expansion releases, so the idea that it's going to be using dragonriding features from the next expansion is a bit far-fetched.

You basically just argued for it here. If it's available in 10.2, where 90% of players are in zones that only use Dragonriding 99% of the time, why would they make it a non-Dragon Riding mount?

[KayRule]

While true, I simply don't believe this is one of those times. I believe this is unfortunately another case of posters on this forum latching heavily onto an item with little evidence to support their assertions. Just like those void pictures a few weeks ago.

This has literally happened consistently the most out of any other one of leak. This is live in-game assets, not blurry AI pictures posted to twitter.

[Myrrh]

I'm saying that if the heroic mount is a gryphon and its designed for "storm riding" in 11.0, then the full features associated with that mount won't be available until 11.0, because that's when the options for the gryphon come into play, because they're no doubt related to the thematic of 11.0, not 10.2.

For example, imagine if the Tangled Dreamweaver mount was a dragonriding mount. Pre-purchasers had access to that mount in 9.2, before dragonriding was even implemented and Dragonflight was released. So you would have had a mount with limited features until dragonriding opened up in 10.0.1. However, since the Dreamweaver was a standard mount, pre-purchasers got the full features of the mount regardless of level and regardless of patch.

That's the point; The heroic expansion mount is going to be available in 10.2, LONG before the next expansion releases, so the idea that it's going to be using dragonriding features from the next expansion is a bit far-fetched.

Not to wade into whether it is or is not a gryphon, but remember that they are already introducing a non-dragon dragonriding mount in 10.2 (the mythic burny owl). They can easily design a mount to have dynamic flight enabled and run off current day 'rules' for dragonriding, especially for commercial purpose such as a collector's edition.

Yes it would be wonky in the old world, but let's be frank - a lot of things are wonky in the old world and that hasn't slowed the devs down before.

That doesn't mean it is a gryphon, but that this factor is probably not a consideration either way.

[Ferlion]

Isn't the reason we don't see spirit manifestations because we have so little of it running amok because the world soul gobbled it up? No idea about decay. But I thought that was the difference between the elements on Draenor and Azeroth was that they had plenty of spirit on Draenor and Azeroth was lacking in spirit.

It's been a while since I've read Chronicles 1, but I believe it was said the Titans got that under control.

[Marlamin]

Nothing says that the heroic mount for the expansion needs to be a dragonriding mount.

We know for a fact that there's a customizable dragonriding-supported mount under the key for 11.0 and the same key also contains the Heroic Edition: Algarian Stormrider achievement (and 22 other achievements, which include the 3 Storm Rider achievements and the Squally one).

You're right in saying that there's currently no (easily accessible) data to verify that the Heroic Edition: Algarian Stormrider mount is the same mount encrypted by that key, but given there were no other encrypted mounts added in the same build (10.1.7.50442) as well as them historically encrypting these rewards together (even the level boost and armor set is in there), I'm inclined to believe that encrypted mount is indeed the Algarian Stormrider.

The only wildcards right now are the other mounts "Unknown mount A" (the non-customizable dragonriding-supported mount added in 10.1.5) and "Unknown mount B" (added in 10.1.7.51059, don't know much about this one).

[Ersula]

I'm saying that if the heroic mount is a gryphon and its designed for "storm riding" in 11.0, then the full features associated with that mount won't be available until 11.0, because that's when the options for the gryphon come into play, because they're no doubt related to the thematic of 11.0, not 10.2.

If the Storm Rider cup wasn't going to be added till 11.0 the achievement wouldn't be encrypted right now. What's more likely its like Allied races & part of the pre-order promotion. Dragonriding Gryphons aren't currently testable but they are ready to go in 10.2. Most of the expanded Dragonriding catalog was ready in 10.1.5

Though I would say "Expanded Dragonriding Catalog" would be a disappointing pre-order bonus but only compared to Allied Races.

This is undisputable. It's directly stated in lore, several times. It's not only directly stated, it's actively represented as being a unique and primary elemental source that can be used by people.

Spirit/Life is a cosmic force. Fire isn't a cosmic force. Water isn't a cosmic force. They aren't analogous. Cosmic Forces /= Elemental Lords

[Bwgmon]

That's the point; The heroic expansion mount is going to be available in 10.2, LONG before the next expansion releases, so the idea that it's going to be using dragonriding features from the next expansion is a bit far-fetched.

I mean, if they're adding a new system for some reason, they could probably let it do both, or temporarily hook it up to the Dragonriding tree until the expansion activates.

Or they could just screw it over like they did the Dreamweaver, and leave it out of either system altogether until they throw the switch.

[Teriz]

They're backporting it to the older zones and we already know Gryphons are getting the animation set, and we know from the texture of the gryphon that it has multiple beak textures for different customization options like a Dragon mount.

I'm not saying that that gryphon isn't going to be using dragonriding features, I'm talking about the heroic mount.

You basically just argued for it here. If it's available in 10.2, where 90% of players are in zones that only use Dragonriding 99% of the time, why would they make it a non-Dragon Riding mount?

Because players will want to show off their fancy new mount in all zones. Not just zones that allow dragonriding.

[Woggmer]

"I think Murmur is a great example, because he is flat out said to be a creature from outside of reality, from a different dimension. I think it's more than fair to say Murmur was likely a force from one of the other fundamental forces as represented by Blizzard."

That's actually why I brought up Disorder ngl. Could be a perfect unit of that. Would also make sense that Disorder has more than just Demons.

That would mean that the Cabal that summoned Murmur were hoping that it was the Burning Legion, but instead they pulled an entity of pure Disorder and chaos that was beyond their control or comprehension.

Either that or Murmur is meant to be the true form of Disorder and Chaos and the Fel took over that part of the Cosmos to make it their own.

But this is going into high-end theorycrafting that is way above someone's pay grade. So I'm just gonna dial it back to something relating to 11.0

"GEE. I wonder if there the reason the Centaur are on the Dragon Isles might have something to do whatever's West of Kalimdor."

[KayRule]

I'm not saying that that gryphon isn't going to be using dragonriding features, I'm talking about the heroic mount.



Because players will want to show off their fancy new mount in all zones. Not just zones that allow dragonriding.

The Heroic Mount is a Gryphon.

Delete your account is the Heroic Mount isn't a Gryphon with Dragonriding support.

[Teriz]

Not to wade into whether it is or is not a gryphon, but remember that they are already introducing a non-dragon dragonriding mount in 10.2 (the mythic burny owl). They can easily design a mount to have dynamic flight enabled and run off current day 'rules' for dragonriding, especially for commercial purpose such as a collector's edition.

Yes it would be wonky in the old world, but let's be frank - a lot of things are wonky in the old world and that hasn't slowed the devs down before.

That doesn't mean it is a gryphon, but that this factor is probably not a consideration either way.

Again, I fully acknowledge that dragonriding is getting expanded moving forward. However, I have serious doubts that Blizzard is going to make every special mount they release into a dragonriding mount. There are sill players out there who prefer standard mounts, and I believe that the heroic mount is such a mount, since those types of mounts are typically designed for more universal appeal and vanity purposes.

[Ersula]

Because players will want to show off their fancy new mount in all zones. Not just zones that allow dragonriding.

Newman: With the Kalimdor Cup, we saw dragonriding races coming to old-world zones. Any plans to include dragonriding as a permanent feature in 10.2?

Day: That's not something that is coming with the Guardians of the Dream update. That's not to say that there couldn't be additional cool Kalimdor Cup-esque things in the [near] future.

Who wants to bet Dragonriding in the Old World is the Pre-order Bonus, plus the expanded selection of Dragonriding mounts. It appeared to be ready to go in 10.1.5 they keep postponing it for seemingly no reason.

Again, I fully acknowledge that dragonriding is getting expanded moving forward. However, I have serious doubts that Blizzard is going to make every special mount they release into a dragonriding mount. There are sill players out there who prefer standard mounts, and I believe that the heroic mount is such a mount, since those types of mounts are typically designed for more universal appeal and vanity purposes.

Not every single one: Just this one. The one that has a dragonriding cup named after it.

[Marlamin]

Because players will want to show off their fancy new mount in all zones. Not just zones that allow dragonriding.

I don't know if there's actually still any technical limitations in letting dynamic flying mounts work as static flying mounts in older zones outside of Blizzard just not having flipped the switch for it yet.

It's more complex for zones that support both dynamic and static flying such as the Dragon Isles will in 10.2 at which point they'll start needing the stuff they made (and then quickly hid) in 10.1.5 to switch between flight styles on mounts that support both.

[KayRule]

Again, I fully acknowledge that dragonriding is getting expanded moving forward. However, I have serious doubts that Blizzard is going to make every special mount they release into a dragonriding mount. There are sill players out there who prefer standard mounts, and I believe that the heroic mount is such a mount, since those types of mounts are typically designed for more universal appeal and vanity purposes.

You were just told the only mount with the same encryption key as the achievement is a dragonriding mount.

[Teriz]

The Heroic Mount is a Gryphon.

Delete your account is the Heroic Mount isn't a Gryphon with Dragonriding support.

Yeah, it's not the serious. If it turns out to be a gryphon with DR support I'll just say I was wrong and move on. If it turns out that I'm right an its an air elemental, hopefully you (and others) will do the same.