The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I really hope the vintage leather, cloths and plate sets get the same treatment... and that they don't stop there! Giving HD visuals to the old sets has so much potential.

I'm unsure by this point of the justification for these updates, but they're certainly welcome in any case. Whether it be to prepare us for a world revamp or just as part of a general undertaking to update older sets, this is welcome. Hopefully these updates continue.

On that note, one thing I find amusing and nostalgic in simultaneity is the retention of the objectionable color palettes that defined older sets. I suppose they're really trying to stick to the spirit of the original, for better or worse.



Also, there's been another new datamined model—a scythe themed after Nozdormu. It may just be a reward for something, be it a trading post item or something for an upcoming Bronze Dragonflight reputation faction, or it may be something he actually uses at some point. It's a fitting thing to give him a scythe, on account of that particular tool's association with inevitability and time vis-à-vis the Grim Reaper. More pertinently, it would also look exceptionally villainous in a certain other color scheme—such as, say, black, white, and blue.

[Fahrad Wagner]

I'm unsure by this point of the justification for these updates, but they're certainly welcome in any case. Whether it be to prepare us for a world revamp or just as part of a general undertaking to update older sets, this is welcome. Hopefully these updates continue.

So far I'm leaning for the latter rather than a full world revamp: proofs are accumulating between the sets and the unused buildings and assets, but for all we know these could very well be integrated into a future patch content (that has us time-travelling for example). Fingers crossed for world revamp and/or more old set updates in any case!

[Grimbold21]

They better continue update those old sets.

I used to have a bunch of them back in WoD as transmog sets.

[Nightshade711]

I'm unsure by this point of the justification for these updates, but they're certainly welcome in any case. Whether it be to prepare us for a world revamp or just as part of a general undertaking to update older sets, this is welcome. Hopefully these updates continue.

On that note, one thing I find amusing and nostalgic in simultaneity is the retention of the objectionable color palettes that defined older sets. I suppose they're really trying to stick to the spirit of the original, for better or worse.



Also, there's been another new datamined model—a scythe themed after Nozdormu. It may just be a reward for something, be it a trading post item or something for an upcoming Bronze Dragonflight reputation faction, or it may be something he actually uses at some point. It's a fitting thing to give him a scythe, on account of that particular tool's association with inevitability and time vis-à-vis the Grim Reaper. More pertinently, it would also look exceptionally villainous in a certain other color scheme—such as, say, black, white, and blue.

This would be cool to get as a “hidden transmog reward” from killing a Murozond boss.
This color for LFR-Heroic, and an infinite color for Mythic.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

This would be cool to get as a “hidden transmog reward” from killing a Murozond boss.
This color for LFR-Heroic, and an infinite color for Mythic.

I'd figure it'd be something of that nature—I'm definitely expecting Murozond to pop up, either in this expansion or in the next. I'm thinking it's possible he'll pop up as part of the end of Dragonflight, then lead us into another go at a time travel expansion alongside Azshara—then, that's only if Blizzard is audacious enough to attempt such a thing after WoD.

I'm also expecting him to probably nab that gauntlet Neltharion was using to control the Dracthyr and turn a number of them against us. That seems like a fair possibility at this point.

[Nathanyel]

Glad to see Fyrakk isn't on there, he may get killed in the campaign though. It would be nice if he and Vyranoth were a dual boss fight

Vyranoth being the one to realize how they went down a dark path and taking Fyrakk down (figuratively or literally) would make for a nice Song of Ice and Fire.

I could see some type of plot where Nozdormu brings back Neltharion pre-corruption because he's necessary to defeat whatever villain. But in doing so, he creates the catalyst event for creating Murozond. Just sounds like a very Blizzard story to me.

"For this, we don't need just the Dragon Soul... we need the creator of the Dragon Soul!"

Hrm, that's fair enough if we take it to be true. The veracity of those claims I feel is dubious, given the awful convenience of it, but on the off-chance that it's true I may have judged too hastily.

The same patch that replaced some old painting barely anyone knew about with a fruit bowl also added the Incubus model, a half-naked demon twink.

[Lady Atia]

Vyranoth being the one to realize how they went down a dark path and taking Fyrakk down (figuratively or literally) would make for a nice Song of Ice and Fire.



"For this, we don't need just the Dragon Soul... we need the creator of the Dragon Soul!"



The same patch that replaced some old painting barely anyone knew about with a fruit bowl also added the Incubus model, a half-naked demon twink.

But but something about the "woke" Incubus!

[AOL Instant Messenger]

But but something about the "woke" Incubus!

I'm really not sure as to why my negative response to a habit of half-measures by a company defined by (still-ongoing) rampant employee abuse constitutes frustration with some breed of "wokeness". As I said, my statement is in response to them addressing the problem in the worst possible way and that the way they're addressing it did little to counteract the culture of exploitation which is still in place.

[Lady Atia]

I'm really not sure as to why my negative response to a habit of half-measures by a company defined by (still-ongoing) rampant employee abuse constitutes frustration with some breed of "wokeness". As I said, my statement is in response to them addressing the problem in the worst possible way and that the way they're addressing it did little to counteract the culture of exploitation which is still in place.

Yeah sure, because the people who model stuff are the same people responsible for changing their company culture. Bet you are also one of these people who think Blizzard should stop design new mounts and instead design new systems, right?

[AOL Instant Messenger]

The same patch that replaced some old painting barely anyone knew about with a fruit bowl also added the Incubus model, a half-naked demon twink.

And that was frankly a fair way of approaching the problem that should've set the general standard. The changes were split roughly half-and-half between fairly effective ways of counteracting the culture there (approaching it from evening out the sexual content) and ineffective methods (i.e. removing such egregious displays as the "Big Love Rocket"). And, again, the frustration I was expressing was less with the changes in themselves and more with the fact that they existed alongside Blizzard's continuous rampant abuse of their employees and anti-union measures. These are fairly sensible frustrations to have, I think—I dislike the surface-level changes they made to appeal to the short-sighted, and I would prefer if Blizzard demonstrated more friendliness to unionization, or at least chose to more fairly compensate the people whose abuse they facilitated.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah sure, because the people who model stuff are the same people responsible for changing their company culture. Bet you are also one of these people who think Blizzard should stop design new mounts and instead design new systems, right?

Again, you're reaching pretty far with that statement and assuming I have opinions I don't. I don't even see why you take offense to this statement, because the only thing I'm saying is that I think they ought to do more to compensate for what they did rather than stoop to baser forms of pandering. You are right that content designers are distinct from those who oversee Blizzard's image, but I highly doubt that these changes were made because of legitimate gripes on the part of the developers—I would be highly inclined to assume that these changes were the result of a mandate sent from those higher echelons. Just because the people actually updating the textures, content, and names are not the people who set the company's overall agenda doesn't mean they weren't acting according to a mandate from the executives.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

but I highly doubt that these changes were made because of legitimate gripes on the part of the developers—I would be highly inclined to assume that these changes were the result of a mandate sent from those higher echelons.

Can’t substantiate this as I have no idea how you’d search for old tweets, but at the time of the changes many very vocal devs said that this is stuff was all from them and that the only part higher ups had was actually letting them do it which they have been asking to do for years which even Ex devs backed up.

They also said at the time that while they can’t effect large scale reform outside of the walk outs they did this was something they could effect now that the higher ups weren’t blocking them.

Edit, actually I was able to find a Reddit post with abunch of the tweets. https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...on_twitter_to/

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Can’t substantiate this as I have no idea how you’d search for old tweets, but at the time of the changes many very vocal devs said that this is stuff was all from them and that the only part higher ups had was actually letting them do it which they have been asking to do for years which even Ex devs backed up.

They also said at the time that while they can’t effect large scale reform outside of the walk outs they did this was something they could effect now that the higher ups weren’t blocking them.

Edit, actually I was able to find a Reddit post with abunch of the tweets. https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...on_twitter_to/

With this being verified now, I retract my prior statements. I'd sincerely figured it was a half-hearted effort at a corporate apology from a demand issued by the higher-ups. Frankly, I still believe the changes are fairly moronic and do absolutely nothing to resolve or even treat the problem, but at least it's more palatable this way given that there's not much else these people could realistically affect.

[Nymrohd]

Can’t substantiate this as I have no idea how you’d search for old tweets, but at the time of the changes many very vocal devs said that this is stuff was all from them and that the only part higher ups had was actually letting them do it which they have been asking to do for years which even Ex devs backed up.

They also said at the time that while they can’t effect large scale reform outside of the walk outs they did this was something they could effect now that the higher ups weren’t blocking them.

Edit, actually I was able to find a Reddit post with abunch of the tweets. https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...on_twitter_to/

Yeah for about a while all we had were rumors circulated by T&E so a lot of people were a bit on the fence because of the source but after a bit we did get several devs speaking up on the issue.
A very minor win compared to actual protections that could keep this from happening again like proper unionization but it seems they never had the votes. And I'll be frank, I'd have changed innuendos and anything sexual made by creeps with other innuendos made by people who are not creeps. But yeah, they did have to go unfortunately.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

And I'll be frank, I'd have changed innuendos and anything sexual made by creeps with other innuendos made by people who are not creeps. But yeah, they did have to go unfortunately.

I'm not quite sure how to feel on that front, but I suppose I can see the justification there. I definitely agree with the idea that supplantation is better than total erasure. As I said, I think there were a few points where the methodology that was employed did work out, but most of it came off in practice as a preachy effort to pander to certain online circles.

like proper unionization

Unfortunately, that's clearly never going to be on Blizzard's agenda. Even if Microsoft eases things up, I'm sure the residue of the old management will still be there to prevent anyone from implementing any profit-cutting unionization measures, even if it buys them far more in long-term goodwill so their company can breathe through the growing pile of scandals and public outrage. After all, we're talking about one of the industry's very models of unsustainable short-term profit maximization.

[Nymrohd]

I'm not quite sure how to feel on that front, but I suppose I can see the justification there. I definitely agree with the idea that supplantation is better than total erasure. As I said, I think there were a few points where the methodology that was employed did work out, but most of it came off in practice as a preachy effort to pander to certain online circles.

The big issue is with the flirts. They could NOT replace the flirts fast even if they wanted to because flirts require voice acting and from what I understand, voice acting is probably among the most expensive parts of making a game; it's just not something you can whip out fast. A few races lost like half their flirts.

Also, censoring a May West line is never OK.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

The big issue is with the flirts. They could NOT replace the flirts fast even if they wanted to because flirts require voice acting and from what I understand, voice acting is probably among the most expensive parts of making a game; it's just not something you can whip out fast. A few races lost like half their flirts.

Honestly, people use those kinds of voiced emotes so little that's one of the things I could live with, and I do figure that my feelings on the general trajectory of the changes would remain fairly similar to how they are now even if they weren't removed. I do wonder, however, about whether or not some of those were really connected to the relevant malefactors. I could imagine the usual culprits writing voiced emotes up through WotLK, but some of the Allied Races had voiced emotes removed, and I have trouble imagining those coming from the nexus of cubicle-crawling funni that we've become so accustomed to. I suppose a good few of them do leave a bad taste (a gag re: stalking in a sexual context in the Demon Hunter voiceset), however.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The big issue is with the flirts. They could NOT replace the flirts fast even if they wanted to because flirts require voice acting and from what I understand, voice acting is probably among the most expensive parts of making a game; it's just not something you can whip out fast. A few races lost like half their flirts.

Also, censoring a May West line is never OK.

I think the lack of flirt replacement is likely more due to Covid making it really hard to get proper voice actor recording done with work places closed.

It’s likely on the list of things to do but not a priority.

[Nymrohd]

Honestly, people use those kinds of voiced emotes so little that's one of the things I could live with, and I do figure that my feelings on the general trajectory of the changes would remain fairly similar to how they are now even if they weren't removed. I do wonder, however, about whether or not some of those were really connected to the relevant malefactors. I could imagine the usual culprits writing voiced emotes up through WotLK, but some of the Allied Races had voiced emotes removed, and I have trouble imagining those coming from the nexus of cubicle-crawling funni that we've become so accustomed to. I suppose a good few of them do leave a bad taste (a gag re: stalking in a sexual context in the Demon Hunter voiceset), however.

Afrasiabi was still there for these. And a few of them were just sexist/racist so it didn't have to be about them being written by the creeps.

[GabrielKnight]

* All the old Aspects are ultimately gone for good, making way for the new generation: Merithra, Wrathion, Kalegcos, Chromie, and some red guy.

Oh God no. I liked Chromie when she was like a secret agent of the Bronze, always in strange places and with his aura of mystery around her. I remember encountering her in the Plaguelands and it felt important, I wanted to know more about her and her mission.

Nowadays, with that silly voice and constant presence everywhere, she became rather annoying. The cutscene between her and Nozdormu felt so Disney-ish that almost made me vomit rainbows.

In fact, all the characters you mentioned feel like they're the cast from Captain Planet. They all suck major balls. Sabellian can easily mop the floor with Wrathion's head, I don't even know why there's a dispute there. A true Black should've destroyed that insolent whelp almost immediately.

[Polybius]

Oh God no. I liked Chromie when she was like a secret agent of the Bronze, always in strange places and with his aura of mystery around her. I remember encountering her in the Plaguelands and it felt important, I wanted to know more about her and her mission.

Nowadays, with that silly voice and constant presence everywhere, she became rather annoying. The cutscene between her and Nozdormu felt so Disney-ish that almost made me vomit rainbows.

In fact, all the characters you mentioned feel like they're the cast from Captain Planet. They all suck major balls. Sabellian can easily mop the floor with Wrathion's head, I don't even know why there's a dispute there. A true Black should've destroyed that insolent whelp almost immediately.

Sabellian, the guy that never changed where he set his hearthstone and was expansions behind. He couldn’t even clean up his father’s mess.