The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[AOL Instant Messenger]

But but something about the "woke" Incubus!

I'm really not sure as to why my negative response to a habit of half-measures by a company defined by (still-ongoing) rampant employee abuse constitutes frustration with some breed of "wokeness". As I said, my statement is in response to them addressing the problem in the worst possible way and that the way they're addressing it did little to counteract the culture of exploitation which is still in place.

[Lady Atia]

I'm really not sure as to why my negative response to a habit of half-measures by a company defined by (still-ongoing) rampant employee abuse constitutes frustration with some breed of "wokeness". As I said, my statement is in response to them addressing the problem in the worst possible way and that the way they're addressing it did little to counteract the culture of exploitation which is still in place.

Yeah sure, because the people who model stuff are the same people responsible for changing their company culture. Bet you are also one of these people who think Blizzard should stop design new mounts and instead design new systems, right?

[AOL Instant Messenger]

The same patch that replaced some old painting barely anyone knew about with a fruit bowl also added the Incubus model, a half-naked demon twink.

And that was frankly a fair way of approaching the problem that should've set the general standard. The changes were split roughly half-and-half between fairly effective ways of counteracting the culture there (approaching it from evening out the sexual content) and ineffective methods (i.e. removing such egregious displays as the "Big Love Rocket"). And, again, the frustration I was expressing was less with the changes in themselves and more with the fact that they existed alongside Blizzard's continuous rampant abuse of their employees and anti-union measures. These are fairly sensible frustrations to have, I think—I dislike the surface-level changes they made to appeal to the short-sighted, and I would prefer if Blizzard demonstrated more friendliness to unionization, or at least chose to more fairly compensate the people whose abuse they facilitated.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah sure, because the people who model stuff are the same people responsible for changing their company culture. Bet you are also one of these people who think Blizzard should stop design new mounts and instead design new systems, right?

Again, you're reaching pretty far with that statement and assuming I have opinions I don't. I don't even see why you take offense to this statement, because the only thing I'm saying is that I think they ought to do more to compensate for what they did rather than stoop to baser forms of pandering. You are right that content designers are distinct from those who oversee Blizzard's image, but I highly doubt that these changes were made because of legitimate gripes on the part of the developers—I would be highly inclined to assume that these changes were the result of a mandate sent from those higher echelons. Just because the people actually updating the textures, content, and names are not the people who set the company's overall agenda doesn't mean they weren't acting according to a mandate from the executives.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

but I highly doubt that these changes were made because of legitimate gripes on the part of the developers—I would be highly inclined to assume that these changes were the result of a mandate sent from those higher echelons.

Can’t substantiate this as I have no idea how you’d search for old tweets, but at the time of the changes many very vocal devs said that this is stuff was all from them and that the only part higher ups had was actually letting them do it which they have been asking to do for years which even Ex devs backed up.

They also said at the time that while they can’t effect large scale reform outside of the walk outs they did this was something they could effect now that the higher ups weren’t blocking them.

Edit, actually I was able to find a Reddit post with abunch of the tweets. https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...on_twitter_to/

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Can’t substantiate this as I have no idea how you’d search for old tweets, but at the time of the changes many very vocal devs said that this is stuff was all from them and that the only part higher ups had was actually letting them do it which they have been asking to do for years which even Ex devs backed up.

They also said at the time that while they can’t effect large scale reform outside of the walk outs they did this was something they could effect now that the higher ups weren’t blocking them.

Edit, actually I was able to find a Reddit post with abunch of the tweets. https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...on_twitter_to/

With this being verified now, I retract my prior statements. I'd sincerely figured it was a half-hearted effort at a corporate apology from a demand issued by the higher-ups. Frankly, I still believe the changes are fairly moronic and do absolutely nothing to resolve or even treat the problem, but at least it's more palatable this way given that there's not much else these people could realistically affect.

[Nymrohd]

Can’t substantiate this as I have no idea how you’d search for old tweets, but at the time of the changes many very vocal devs said that this is stuff was all from them and that the only part higher ups had was actually letting them do it which they have been asking to do for years which even Ex devs backed up.

They also said at the time that while they can’t effect large scale reform outside of the walk outs they did this was something they could effect now that the higher ups weren’t blocking them.

Edit, actually I was able to find a Reddit post with abunch of the tweets. https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...on_twitter_to/

Yeah for about a while all we had were rumors circulated by T&E so a lot of people were a bit on the fence because of the source but after a bit we did get several devs speaking up on the issue.
A very minor win compared to actual protections that could keep this from happening again like proper unionization but it seems they never had the votes. And I'll be frank, I'd have changed innuendos and anything sexual made by creeps with other innuendos made by people who are not creeps. But yeah, they did have to go unfortunately.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

And I'll be frank, I'd have changed innuendos and anything sexual made by creeps with other innuendos made by people who are not creeps. But yeah, they did have to go unfortunately.

I'm not quite sure how to feel on that front, but I suppose I can see the justification there. I definitely agree with the idea that supplantation is better than total erasure. As I said, I think there were a few points where the methodology that was employed did work out, but most of it came off in practice as a preachy effort to pander to certain online circles.

like proper unionization

Unfortunately, that's clearly never going to be on Blizzard's agenda. Even if Microsoft eases things up, I'm sure the residue of the old management will still be there to prevent anyone from implementing any profit-cutting unionization measures, even if it buys them far more in long-term goodwill so their company can breathe through the growing pile of scandals and public outrage. After all, we're talking about one of the industry's very models of unsustainable short-term profit maximization.

[Nymrohd]

I'm not quite sure how to feel on that front, but I suppose I can see the justification there. I definitely agree with the idea that supplantation is better than total erasure. As I said, I think there were a few points where the methodology that was employed did work out, but most of it came off in practice as a preachy effort to pander to certain online circles.

The big issue is with the flirts. They could NOT replace the flirts fast even if they wanted to because flirts require voice acting and from what I understand, voice acting is probably among the most expensive parts of making a game; it's just not something you can whip out fast. A few races lost like half their flirts.

Also, censoring a May West line is never OK.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

The big issue is with the flirts. They could NOT replace the flirts fast even if they wanted to because flirts require voice acting and from what I understand, voice acting is probably among the most expensive parts of making a game; it's just not something you can whip out fast. A few races lost like half their flirts.

Honestly, people use those kinds of voiced emotes so little that's one of the things I could live with, and I do figure that my feelings on the general trajectory of the changes would remain fairly similar to how they are now even if they weren't removed. I do wonder, however, about whether or not some of those were really connected to the relevant malefactors. I could imagine the usual culprits writing voiced emotes up through WotLK, but some of the Allied Races had voiced emotes removed, and I have trouble imagining those coming from the nexus of cubicle-crawling funni that we've become so accustomed to. I suppose a good few of them do leave a bad taste (a gag re: stalking in a sexual context in the Demon Hunter voiceset), however.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The big issue is with the flirts. They could NOT replace the flirts fast even if they wanted to because flirts require voice acting and from what I understand, voice acting is probably among the most expensive parts of making a game; it's just not something you can whip out fast. A few races lost like half their flirts.

Also, censoring a May West line is never OK.

I think the lack of flirt replacement is likely more due to Covid making it really hard to get proper voice actor recording done with work places closed.

It’s likely on the list of things to do but not a priority.

[Nymrohd]

Honestly, people use those kinds of voiced emotes so little that's one of the things I could live with, and I do figure that my feelings on the general trajectory of the changes would remain fairly similar to how they are now even if they weren't removed. I do wonder, however, about whether or not some of those were really connected to the relevant malefactors. I could imagine the usual culprits writing voiced emotes up through WotLK, but some of the Allied Races had voiced emotes removed, and I have trouble imagining those coming from the nexus of cubicle-crawling funni that we've become so accustomed to. I suppose a good few of them do leave a bad taste (a gag re: stalking in a sexual context in the Demon Hunter voiceset), however.

Afrasiabi was still there for these. And a few of them were just sexist/racist so it didn't have to be about them being written by the creeps.

[GabrielKnight]

* All the old Aspects are ultimately gone for good, making way for the new generation: Merithra, Wrathion, Kalegcos, Chromie, and some red guy.

Oh God no. I liked Chromie when she was like a secret agent of the Bronze, always in strange places and with his aura of mystery around her. I remember encountering her in the Plaguelands and it felt important, I wanted to know more about her and her mission.

Nowadays, with that silly voice and constant presence everywhere, she became rather annoying. The cutscene between her and Nozdormu felt so Disney-ish that almost made me vomit rainbows.

In fact, all the characters you mentioned feel like they're the cast from Captain Planet. They all suck major balls. Sabellian can easily mop the floor with Wrathion's head, I don't even know why there's a dispute there. A true Black should've destroyed that insolent whelp almost immediately.

[Polybius]

Oh God no. I liked Chromie when she was like a secret agent of the Bronze, always in strange places and with his aura of mystery around her. I remember encountering her in the Plaguelands and it felt important, I wanted to know more about her and her mission.

Nowadays, with that silly voice and constant presence everywhere, she became rather annoying. The cutscene between her and Nozdormu felt so Disney-ish that almost made me vomit rainbows.

In fact, all the characters you mentioned feel like they're the cast from Captain Planet. They all suck major balls. Sabellian can easily mop the floor with Wrathion's head, I don't even know why there's a dispute there. A true Black should've destroyed that insolent whelp almost immediately.

Sabellian, the guy that never changed where he set his hearthstone and was expansions behind. He couldn’t even clean up his father’s mess.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Oh God no. I liked Chromie when she was like a secret agent of the Bronze, always in strange places and with his aura of mystery around her. I remember encountering her in the Plaguelands and it felt important, I wanted to know more about her and her mission.

Nowadays, with that silly voice and constant presence everywhere, she became rather annoying. The cutscene between her and Nozdormu felt so Disney-ish that almost made me vomit rainbows.

I agree on that front. I think she's a fun side-character to adventure with, but compounding the terminal overload of saccharine hyperoptimism that is Dragonflight by putting her in the position of a demigod would make me want to slash open my own throat.

- - - Updated - - -

* All the old Aspects are ultimately gone for good, making way for the new generation: Merithra, Wrathion, Kalegcos, Chromie, and some red guy.

I'm sure looking forward to enjoying all those interesting character.

[Foolicious]

Oh God no. I liked Chromie when she was like a secret agent of the Bronze, always in strange places and with his aura of mystery around her. I remember encountering her in the Plaguelands and it felt important, I wanted to know more about her and her mission.

Nowadays, with that silly voice and constant presence everywhere, she became rather annoying. The cutscene between her and Nozdormu felt so Disney-ish that almost made me vomit rainbows.

In fact, all the characters you mentioned feel like they're the cast from Captain Planet. They all suck major balls. Sabellian can easily mop the floor with Wrathion's head, I don't even know why there's a dispute there. A true Black should've destroyed that insolent whelp almost immediately.

Its strange they never bothered to introduce another bronze dragon properly. Soridormi and Anachronos are just there since vanilla and kairozdormu was killed of after one patch. So now whenever something involves bronze dragons its always chromie which is exhausting. I like her as a character in small doses but i agree that she shouldn't be used for every occasion they need a bronze besides nozdormu.

[Nymrohd]

Its strange they never bothered to introduce another bronze dragon properly. Soridormi and Anachronos are just there since vanilla and kairozdormu was killed of after one patch. So now whenever something involves bronze dragons its always chromie which is exhausting. I like her as a character in small doses but i agree that she shouldn't be used for every occasion they need a bronze besides nozdormu.

*cries in red flight
Poor Calen.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Oh God no. I liked Chromie when she was like a secret agent of the Bronze, always in strange places and with his aura of mystery around her. I remember encountering her in the Plaguelands and it felt important, I wanted to know more about her and her mission.

Nowadays, with that silly voice and constant presence everywhere, she became rather annoying. The cutscene between her and Nozdormu felt so Disney-ish that almost made me vomit rainbows.

In fact, all the characters you mentioned feel like they're the cast from Captain Planet. They all suck major balls. Sabellian can easily mop the floor with Wrathion's head, I don't even know why there's a dispute there. A true Black should've destroyed that insolent whelp almost immediately.

You had me in the first half then moaned about a "True black dragon" Like how Neltharion tried to destroy the world? No, this dispute is good for the story. This "True Black" is nonsense. The Black Dragonflight has to find itself cause most of its history is just corrupted dragons.

Its strange they never bothered to introduce another bronze dragon properly. Soridormi and Anachronos are just there since vanilla and kairozdormu was killed of after one patch. So now whenever something involves bronze dragons its always chromie which is exhausting. I like her as a character in small doses but i agree that she shouldn't be used for every occasion they need a bronze besides nozdormu.

True, I don't particularly care for Chromie being the new Bronze Aspect. She's not THAT great of a character to me. Only one way I could tolerate Chromie and...more character development.


Chromie in hoping to prevent Nozdormu from turning into Murozond she sacrifices herself and becomes Murozond herself(All possibilities was mentioned so this is one of them). Yes this would kill the character but it would be a twist.

[Revamp Man]

so i have all of my alts gaining knowledge every week
10 per week
the main guess ive seen, which comes from the youtuber that bullied a guy off the internet then whined when he got backlash, is may 2nd
6 weeks
60 knowledge points

recrafting gear in 10.1 is gonna be very profitable

[Nymrohd]

so i have all of my alts gaining knowledge every week
10 per week
the main guess ive seen, which comes from the youtuber that bullied a guy off the internet then whined when he got backlash, is may 2nd
6 weeks
60 knowledge points

recrafting gear in 10.1 is gonna be very profitable

It actually varies by profession. Some have as much as 13 per week (3x3 from quests plus 4 from treasures). Plus 10.1 is a knowledge bump by itself (3 new one time treasures per profession for 3 points each).

[Fahrad Wagner]

It actually varies by profession. Some have as much as 13 per week (3x3 from quests plus 4 from treasures). Plus 10.1 is a knowledge bump by itself (3 new one time treasures per profession for 3 points each).

Do we have a view on 10.1 new recipes or professions updates so far? I missed the train with 10.0 and was a bit behind to make gold, I'd like to make it up for it in 10.1.