The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Dismayxz]

Spirit is not Life. Spirit is an element. Fire, Water, Wind, Earth, Spirit and Decay. Azeroth is noted for having below average levels of Spirit.

DF is the first expansion that actually showed Decay, while Spirit has been in use since MoP.

It isn't Life, that is true. It is an element, that is true. But the Titans also specifically seem to align it towards Life and Light on their biased chart.

[PotHockets]

Well Blizzard already announced that standard flying for the dragon isles will be available by 10.2, which is when the heroic mount will be available, so they will be able to use the heroic mount during current expansion content.

There are players who don't like dragon riding, whereas standard flying is pretty much enjoyed by all players. There are also players who may want the mount but haven't gotten all the talents for dragonriding (players who may have skipped DF but the new expansion interests them enough to pre-order). They would be rather screwed if the mount was a DR mount.

Obviously if your goal is to use the heroic mount to appeal to as many potential players as possible, you're going to go with a standard mount over a dragonriding one.

You exist in such a weird alternate reality from the rest of us.

[Teriz]

Based on the (actual) evidence, I still wouldn't go all-in on either theory, there's still too much unknown about the pre-order mount (and the other mounts for that matter). Don't go making silly bets, it'll only lead to more drama and "i told you so!!!!!" later.

Yeah, definitely not taking any bets on this. I just really believe we're getting an elemental mount over a gryphon.

[Ferlion]

Should be noted though that it doesn't work the other way around. Decay does not automatically mean Death, and Spirit does not automatically mean Life.

If that hypothesis is true, this would just be reinforced, as that would not only mean Spirit isn't absent from Death, but that it is in fact required.

Yes. It's a one way street insofar as, like you say, Death may mean there is decay, but Decay doesn't mean there is death.

[Dismayxz]

Alright, long one and long shot, but Ferlion has inspired me a bit, at this point several pages ago, so I'ma snip the Quote for .. sizing down the post.. just a tad. I might as well actually start taking part in the speculation rather than getting into arguments or just commenting on random things. I am also bringing in other speculation people have had.

So, first.
The Avaloren bit would treck with the Winter Queen/Elune connection as "Sisters" in a sense. If we're thinking of Avaloren = Avalon = Realm of the Fey-ish.

So assuming that the Books that were found are purely meant to build things up through more PoV writing and actually technically connected to eachother in a way and not neglecting that the green dragons technically also align with life in a sense:
We have reason to believe, from that one dragon's/dreamers accounts, there is more to the Dream than one would think.
It goes on to insinuate that the Emerald Dream as we know it is just a prelude to something reachable further beyond, as the Writer clearly mentions that going beyond certain boundaries of the dream (why are there boundaries? We came up with the Ordering of the Titans) makes them feel like there's more, something out of reach.

So going back to the Chart (Titan PoV), the Emerald Dream is opposite the Shadowlands. We know the Shadowlands are what they say they are, at least for the purposes of the Chart. But the Emerald Dream having something possibly beyond and having been Ordered or fiddled with by the Titans to some degree, would (as others have speculated) lead one to assume that the Emerald Dream isn't per se the "Lifelands" but rather a tampered-with portion of them or a titan-ordered piece of the Veil separating the Shadowland's counterpart from Reality, that has become this sort of In-between tied to Reality.

If it is structured similarly to the Shadowlands, with the Winter Queen referring to Elune as "Sister" you could expect that Elune similarly to the Winter Queen has her own Fae Creatures. Which then could possibly also be what's referred to when the surviving Roots of Elun'ahir, or what grew from them had attracted strange Guardians later down the line. Why couldn't they possibly leave their "plane of existence", when the Maldraxxi in Draka's case, have clearly made moves in Reality against at the very least the Legion.

It would also make sense if the Dream is tied to the World in that Inbetween sense and reflects it (or vice versa), meaning that there is a likelihood that some way to Avaloren (which I am going to also refer to as "the West" here, since it's speculation) has to exist within the Dream or what lies beyond. A connection COULD exist. It is hammered home in all we know of the "West" that the Storming Sea is filled with so much danger, it'd be suicide to try and make it past. Yet a rando green dragon is insinuated to have made the journey, as other green dragons (but not all) swear they've felt her presence in the Dream and seen her having her own clutch. So what if she actually made her way to Avaloren, "West", but not through the Storms and Monsters directly, via the Storming Sea, but via traversing the Dream there instead, breaking the boundaries of the Dream. That would have also meant that she would probably get a deeper glimpse. Building a clutch, to my knowledge requires a Mate. What if there are green dragons that have broken the boundaries. What if the Dreamer that has written that book (the story to my knowledge doesn't exactly rule this out?) has actually left the Book there, unfinished but made a breakthrough? What if the Dreamer from one Book and the Dragon from the other have both made it to Avaloren through a connection with the depths of the Dream beyond the titan-ordered boundaries and started a clutch there?


(The actual speculation I have so far, a little bit more self-contained)/TL;DR?
So my speculative line up for what we're looking at, at this current Stage (not gonna die on this hill though) is:

-> A cosmically mixed Expansion on Avaloren, a Continent/Larger Island in the "West", past the Storming Sea. Directly picking up from Dragonflight and entirely seeded via Dragonflight. The Time Gap between SL and DF signifies a break to me and DF is the Prologue + Chapter 1 of a new general, overarching Storyline. We're taking forward: The Elements of Earth, Air, Water and Spirit, the Cosmic Forces of Life and Void and Order in a more contained fashion of involvement and seeing more of our three newest Additions to the Aspects, but not focusing solely on them in Main-Story.

-> With varied themes:

Some ongoing Dragonflight Storylines: Iridikron/Elven Figure, Earthen Element + Void, Ebyssian is going to play a general role here, as the new Black Aspect, since both themes very much fit the history of that flight. Elun'ahir, being a goal for Iridikron and the Harbringer/Elven Figure, as bringing it's continued existence into frame, once he knows more about the tree, will make this a good thing to further incite Aman'thul and the Pantheon, provoke Order. Maybe even put a new divide between Aman'thul and Eonar, given the formers reaction to first seeing Elun'ahir. This is Iridikron's Hook. Underground World Tree planted by Eonar, ripped out by Aman'thul, regrown by Eonar's Tears, with Elune's involvement making it possible to begin with. Life, Order, Void the Element of Earth in one very promising Zone Concept from a visual perspective, too. I don't think Iridikron will ever 'kill the Titans' or directly fight the Titans. He wants to draw their Attention with something big, somewhere where he's got them at a disadvantage. And if Sargeras is any indication, the best Weapon against the Titans is breaking their flimsy Unity. There's multiple hints/events in history with the Pantheon of Order, where their Members have clearly acted against what the Highfather deems "Order". I think we'll see all the Titans eventually go off on their own Paths because of Iridikrons plot and going into the other Cosmic Spheres, like Sargeras eventually fell to Disorder and how Eonar is getting swayed by Life. I think they are routing towards a Story where they can have the Titans as a big WoW Plot goal re-introduced as a possible enemy, after seeing them and helping them in Legion, to being entities we can look forward to facing again. Iridikron's Goal isn't a fight, it's doing to the Pantheon what Order did to Dragonkind: Separation.


Green Dragons/Merithra as a new Aspect, tying into the Clutch there, from the Book. Learning some lessons, perhaps some mild conflict. Lots more Dream Stuff, Lore, the outer edges, mastering the Dream and its boundaries. A less centric, tempered "Lifelands" hook in a very outer-edges-of-the-dream type Zone. Emerald Dream influenced, but going crazy wild with it, so it doesn't feel too similar to Amirdrassil's Dream Zone. Just very Nature-y, Life/Elune/Dream centered.

Then the Earthen/Dwarf Khaz Algar hook. I am going a bit wild here, with the speculation. I think the Gryphon Mount IS tied to this. I believe going off the Texture, that we are in fact looking at Rebel Earthen, that have taken on Mainland Dwarf mannerisms and as such have their own Stormriders. But their Gryphons are made of/chiseled from Stone, hence why the Gryphon is a plain grey-ish color and infused with the Element of Air and notably, the cosmologically very Life-adjacent Element of Spirit (Chi!) (Earthen, Storm-Based Shaman-Monks?) - which is why the texture has that very Maldraxxian look. It's the plain grey of Wind/Air, mixed with the brighter green-ish tones of Spirit/Chi. And then the matter of the Fissure mentioned, which I do not want to nail down as either Old God related, nor want to speculate on in the direction of Spirit. Who knows. But something like that. Open ceiling Cavern-ish Area, Fissure in the Ground, Dwarven settlements dotted throughout and on the walls, very much a mix of Earthen Dwarves, with elemental Monks that Craft their own mounts from the surrounding stone and elementally infuse them. Wind/Air being important here ties together the insinuations of "Where does the Wind/Breeze/Gale come from", from the 10.2 Book. I think that ties some of those hooks together quite well with existing speculation. Maybe it's an elemental fissure of Spirit or Air.

That's what I have so far.

[Marlamin]

Yeah, definitely not taking any bets on this. I just really believe we're getting an elemental mount over a gryphon.

I think getting an elemental-themed mount is a given at this point (e.g. the files around Unknown Mount A), whether or not it is the Algarian Stormrider pre-order mount or if it is also a gryphon or not is the thing that remains to be seen. Hell, both could end up being correct.

[Hitei]

Based on the (actual) evidence, I still wouldn't go all-in on either theory, there's still too much unknown about the pre-order mount (and the other mounts for that matter). Don't go making silly bets, it'll only lead to more drama and "i told you so!!!!!" later.

I bet you that the first raid of the next expansion contains one spider boss and if I'm right you have to resume updating .tools.

[Teriz]

You exist in such a weird alternate reality from the rest of us.

So a player who is level 60 and skipped Dragonflight pre-orders the heroic edition of the 11.0 expansion, and gets a dragonriding-enabled gryphon mount as a reward. Please explain how this player wouldn't be screwed vs that same player getting a standard mount as a reward instead.

[Myrrh]

Well Blizzard already announced that standard flying for the dragon isles will be available by 10.2, which is when the heroic mount will be available, so they will be able to use the heroic mount during current expansion content.

There are players who don't like dragon riding, whereas standard flying is pretty much enjoyed by all players. There are also players who may want the mount but haven't gotten all the talents for dragonriding (players who may have skipped DF but the new expansion interests them enough to pre-order). So obviously if your goal is to use the heroic mount to appeal to as many potential players as possible, you're going to go with a standard mount over a dragonriding one.

That distinction is only likely to last for the duration of Dragonflight though... and most players aren't going to find a purely 'old' flight mount (at least until broader 11.0 access to dynamic flight kicks in) worth spending money on when they're mainly jetting around in the dragon isles for many months to come.

Marlamin mentioned they've already been working on a toggle function for some time; they could do something janky like enable it for the collector's mount only until 11.0 as an incentive.

[Marlamin]

I bet you that the first raid of the next expansion contains one spider boss and if I'm right you have to resume updating .tools.

The website isn't coming back regardless of what bet I take unless I find a cache of money and time to continue maintaining a service like that. But hey, you can basically run your own now!

So a player who is level 60 and skipped Dragonflight pre-orders the heroic edition of the 11.0 expansion, and gets a dragonriding-enabled gryphon mount as a reward. Please explain how this player wouldn't be screwed vs that same player getting a standard mount as a reward instead.

I don't think static/dynamic flight are mutually exclusive. It might work that way right now, but they've definitely been working on getting rid of that. Whether or not it works/lands in 10.2 remains to be seen.

[AngerFork]

Who wants to bet Dragonriding in the Old World is the Pre-order Bonus, plus the expanded selection of Dragonriding mounts.

This would surprise me, honestly. While it could be fun in some respects, it would be weird from a coding standpoint to allow for the usage of those specific spells to be locked behind a purchase temporarily. Plus there's not a lot of stuff to bring people into the Old World at this point to incentivize the Old World Dragonriding.

I'm guessing it'll be a similar assortment to what we've seen in recent years. If there's a new class, I'd guess it'll be available around the time of the pre-patch. If there's a new race, I'd guess it'll be available in the last patch of Dragonflight. Maybe some sort of new race/class combo, though the pre-order Allied Race DKs didn't seem to generate a ton of excitement as I recall. Beyond that, I'm thinking they'll rely on things like Trader's Tender and the Heroic/Epic Edition goodies to move pre-orders.

[Teriz]

That distinction is only likely to last for the duration of Dragonflight though... and most players aren't going to find a purely 'old' flight mount (at least until broader 11.0 access to dynamic flight kicks in) worth spending money on when they're mainly jetting around in the dragon isles for many months to come.

Marlamin mentioned they've already been working on a toggle function for some time; they could do something janky like enable it for the collector's mount only until 11.0 as an incentive.

Well keep in mind, the heroic mount for 11.0 is going to be available in 10.2 when the pre-orders for the next expansion begin. I seriously don't believe that Blizzard is going to have dragonriding or dynamic flying accessible in Outland, Northrend, Cataclym zones, Pandaria, Draenor, Broken Isles/Argus, Kul'tira/Zandalar, and the Shadowlands by 10.2.

Meanwhile, a standard mount will be able to fly in all those zones.

[Valkorion1337]

Benn a bit since i updated it.

Also here's the link to the gallery: https://imgur.com/a/LTF6Qug

lol keep this up making me cry with laughter

[Ersula]

So a player who is level 60 and skipped Dragonflight pre-orders the heroic edition of the 11.0 expansion, and gets a dragonriding-enabled gryphon mount as a reward. Please explain how this player wouldn't be screwed vs that same player getting a standard mount as a reward instead.

Because its safe to assume the heroic edition also comes with a character boost, which would allow dragonflying immediately.

[Dismayxz]

Well keep in mind, the heroic mount for 11.0 is going to be available in 10.2 when the pre-orders for the next expansion begin. I seriously don't believe that Blizzard is going to have dragonriding or dynamic flying accessible in Outland, Northrend, Cataclym zones, Pandaria, Draenor, Broken Isles/Argus, Kul'tira/Zandalar, and the Shadowlands by 10.2.

Meanwhile, a standard mount will be able to fly in all those zones.

100% convinced that Wall I posted is gonna get like 1 person looking at it, but one thing in there. What it the Gryphon was.. an elemental Gryphon? As in literally carved from stone and infused with Air (and well, in my speculation, also Spirit, to get that effect color).

[Teriz]

Because its safe to assume the heroic edition also comes with a character boost, which would allow dragonflying immediately.

Without the talents and the skills, which you have to unlock by actually questing in the dragon isles.

Also you'll only be able to fly in the dragon isles.

Compare that to them getting a standard mount that they can use anywhere instantly at the moment of purchase.

100% convinced that Wall I posted is gonna get like 1 person looking at it, but one thing in there. What it the Gryphon was.. an elemental Gryphon? As in literally carved from stone and infused with Air (and well, in my speculation, also Spirit, to get that effect color).

Definitely possible.

[Ferlion]

Because its safe to assume the heroic edition also comes with a character boost, which would allow dragonflying immediately.

I think there is actually a point to be had with a dragonriding enabled mount right off the bat.

Dragonriding does actually require content to advance in the form of Glyphs. And if Dragonriding is supposed to be evergreen content, I'm not exactly sure they will go the route of removing the glyphs.

[Hitei]

The website isn't coming back regardless of what bet I take unless I find a cache of money and time to continue maintaining a service like that. But hey, you can basically run your own now!

's a good compromise, but I'm still gonna say I told you so when there's a spider boss.

- - - Updated - - -

I think there is actually a point to be had with a dragonriding enabled mount right off the bat.

Dragonriding does actually require content to advance in the form of Glyphs. And if Dragonriding is supposed to be evergreen content, I'm not exactly sure they will go the route of removing the glyphs.

They've served their purpose, it's not like they haven't just 0'd progression trees in previous expansions, even ones that are much more time investment. If they move the gylph system forward in the future it will probably be altered to unlock certain mount customizations or something. Like they are converted to a currency and can be used at a vendor for various vanity things.

[flan1337]

Benn a bit since i updated it.

Also here's the link to the gallery: https://imgur.com/a/LTF6Qug

RIP Stormbreak

----

Also 10.2 and all this emerald dream talk has be thinking about this old song:


There use to be a wow Machinima fan made video of the emerald dream to this video - sucks they removed it ):

[Teriz]

I don't think static/dynamic flight are mutually exclusive. It might work that way right now, but they've definitely been working on getting rid of that. Whether or not it works/lands in 10.2 remains to be seen.

10.2 would have to remove a lot of dragon riding's current limitations in order for a dragonriding mount to match the comparative freedom of a standard mount.

I could see it happening in 11.0, but definitely not in 10.2. I also believe that Blizzard would want their heroic mount to be applicable to as wide an audience as possible, even to players who skipped DF entirely, or dropped it mid-expansion. You simply won't do that with a dragonriding mount relying on one of the core features of the current expansion.