The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Ferlion]

So who's willing to bet that the Earth Mother is somehow involved with everything we're seeing right now?

I'm sure the Tauren's version of the tale is part myth and allegory. But if you look at the story of the Earth Mother, it does look a bit suspicious.

- Roamed Azeroth at the time the Old Gods were free below the earth.

- Had control (somewhat) over Life, Death, and the Elements.

- Created Azeroth's two moons and the Sun (these were her children, made from her eyes and tears). The bigger moon, the White Lady, is Elune

- Created the seasons by sleeping, as well as the Tauren and a bunch of other plants and animals.

- Eventually "rooted" herself in the earth and became one with the land, as the Sun and the Moon(s) took over her duty to watch over Azeroth from above.

---

I wonder if it'll end up something like this: Eonar fell in love with our world, and shaped much of its wildlife. Maybe causing or strengthening the link between the Emerald Dream and the Shadowlands. Maybe, allowed Elune and the Winter Queen to keep watch over Azeroth (symbolised with the moons) alongside their brother (the Sun).

Directing of influencing Azeroth's life-force to create life.

The part about rooting herself to the world could perhaps be that tree which got snatched away from her. Maybe she poured all of her love into it or something.

Another option could perhaps be that it represents the world-soul itself, which perhaps roamed the planet through an avatar in the old days, seeding life etc., before getting confined to the world's core for some reason. Perhaps the Titans locked her in there and put her to sleep for "her own good".

So..

And this is just me, and I know this is something that is kind of up for interpretation...

But I've never really viewed the Earthmother as a standalone being. Not exactly. Lot of it is some of the older lore from RPGs, which were non-canon, but it lined up with other stuff and kind of colored my view overall.

Earthmother is...or was...the spirit that connected all living things. She was primarily worshipped by Shamanistic races. She lives in every sea and rock and plant and lifeform on Azeroth. She is the embodiment of nature in a way that lined up very specifically with the Element of Spirit as it was introduced. That's kind of what I always assumed the Earthmother was.

Not so much a singular being as much as a universal consciousness that those with the proper training can communicate with to some degree.

So like, everything is Earthmother, and that same universal consciousness can move and shake when it needs to make things happen, but insofar as being a singular entity it's not quite an accurate assessment? If that makes sense?

[Nibelheimy]

100% convinced that Wall I posted is gonna get like 1 person looking at it, but one thing in there. What it the Gryphon was.. an elemental Gryphon? As in literally carved from stone and infused with Air (and well, in my speculation, also Spirit, to get that effect color).

I can see it being possible. We have a Dwarves so far relating to every element other than Spirit and Decay. The colours on the datamined textures could very well be as you describe, Stone mixed with Chi/Spirit. We know Iridikron has succ'd up Galakronds Decay energy. From the earlier datamined books mentioning the ripping up of the branch, it seems that the residents of Khaz'Algar could be life influenced, living inside the fissure amongst the roots being changed/influenced/fed by the destroyed branch/Elune powers/life magic.

Why however, we need to go there is the missing link. If the roots of that destroyed tree beneath the fissure to stretch towards the world soul. Iridikron and co could go down in order to infuse the world soul with decay, attempting to effectively kill the planet/world soul to force the titans to intervene. It is possible he infuses Xal'Atath with the voidsoul whilst at the heart of the roots, remaking her into her suspected old old god form from the chronicles border so she can sit amongst the roots slowly strangling it and corrupting the roots reaching the world soul or the deepest places of the planet. How on earth would we hear about it? If Khaz'Algar and Avaloren are to be in the same area. Its going to have to be Nightsquall.

I do feel the pieces slowly coming together with all of the speculation.

[Ferlion]

Question
In addition to the traditional elements of Fire, Water, Earth, and Air, what are the other elements officially recognized in Azeroth?
Do we know if every element "must have" an elemental Lord?
Do we know all the elemental Lords?

As far as we know there are 6 official elements on Azeroth.

Earth.
Wind.
Water.
Fire.
Spirit.
Decay.

There could be others, but those are the ones that are named and recognized by the Titans in Chronicle and other sources.

[Chickat]

Woah 25 pages in 1 day? Something juicy must have happened?

[ImTheMizAwesome]

Woah 25 pages in 1 day? Something juicy must have happened?

I just skim through some of it, doesn't seem so, just heavy lore discussions mostly.


hoping for some more believable fake leaks or real ones to unleash the chaos of speculation.

[Chickat]

I just skim through some of it, doesn't seem so, just heavy lore discussions mostly.


hoping for some more believable fake leaks or real ones to unleash the chaos of speculation.

Ah ok. Ill skim what I can tonight as I game and try to catch up. Im not able to play games and keep up with this thread at this point.

[Woggmer]

Doing the EK cup has made me realize how tiny all the vanilla zones are. Are there going to be more cups? I seem to remember there was a Northrend one that was datamined? Would be cool as hell if there was an Outland one though.

Also, why exactly aren't they allowing people to just use dragonriding in the old zones? It seems to be perfectly possible considering a lot of zones have these races now.

The Vanilla zones being tiny compared to newer zones is something that people seem to overlook or don't see a a big deal. But I have pointed this out in another thread.. basically DF's zones usually have up to 6 races (aside from the Waking Shore having 8 races and Ohn'ahran Plains having 5 races) including in the Forbidden Reach and Zaralek Caverns.

The zones in EK and Kalimdor are much smaller by comparison aside from a few outliers like Hyjal, Uldum, and Twilight Highlands which were added in for Cata. So, it makes me wonder if they might one day merge some of the old zones into larger zones in order for a revamp to be possible or have them built in mind for Dragonriding. (Who can say really?)

As for why not allowing people to use Dragonriding.. I'd imagine that they want the option to use Dragonriding to be baseline to ALL flying mounts and not have people limited to the dragon mounts we got in DF.. which would mean changing the flying animation for a lot of mounts.

[Ferlion]

The Vanilla zones being tiny compared to newer zones is something that people seem to overlook or don't see a a big deal. But I have pointed this out in another thread.. basically DF's zones usually have up to 6 races (aside from the Waking Shore having 8 races and Ohn'ahran Plains having 5 races) including in the Forbidden Reach and Zaralek Caverns.

The zones in EK and Kalimdor are much smaller by comparison aside from a few outliers like Hyjal, Uldum, and Twilight Highlands which were added in for Cata. So, it makes me wonder if they might one day merge some of the old zones into larger zones in order for a revamp to be possible or have them built in mind for Dragonriding. (Who can say really?)

As for why not allowing people to use Dragonriding.. I'd imagine that they want the option to use Dragonriding to be baseline to ALL flying mounts and not have people limited to the dragon mounts we got in DF.. which would mean changing the flying animation for a lot of mounts.

It's funny.

Because while I agree each individual zone in the old world is smaller, I was just talking to my SO about how I really missed the scale of the old world. I was using ZG as an example. with it's big towering walls, and the inside of the dungeon.

We don't really see that scale of buildings and civilizations anymore. Even Tyrhold and Valdrakken in Dragonflight are localized, not spread out. Even the towers and villages we see kind of just seem to lack the same sense of scale.

[Dismayxz]

I can see it being possible. We have a Dwarves so far relating to every element other than Spirit and Decay. The colours on the datamined textures could very well be as you describe, Stone mixed with Chi/Spirit. We know Iridikron has succ'd up Galakronds Decay energy. From the earlier datamined books mentioning the ripping up of the branch, it seems that the residents of Khaz'Algar could be life influenced, living inside the fissure amongst the roots being changed/influenced/fed by the destroyed branch/Elune powers/life magic.

Why however, we need to go there is the missing link. If the roots of that destroyed tree beneath the fissure to stretch towards the world soul. Iridikron and co could go down in order to infuse the world soul with decay, attempting to effectively kill the planet/world soul to force the titans to intervene. It is possible he infuses Xal'Atath with the voidsoul whilst at the heart of the roots, remaking her into her suspected old old god form from the chronicles border so she can sit amongst the roots slowly strangling it and corrupting the roots reaching the world soul or the deepest places of the planet. How on earth would we hear about it? If Khaz'Algar and Avaloren are to be in the same area. Its going to have to be Nightsquall.

I do feel the pieces slowly coming together with all of the speculation.

2 Things, 1 I included in the post, the other I didn't include. Nightsquall is iffy on us, because the guy who wrote it got fired and we have "No pirates". My mind says, the firing has nothing to do with it and the "no pirates" only relates to on going speculation at the time. The Expansion Theme isn't pirates. Pirates aren't going to be heavily featured or even necessarily there at the start. Tracks for me, but what doesn't is, even if I go with my own speculation: How'd Nightsquall get there? He's a nightelf that supposedly left nightelven culture at a young age. What is a young age to a race that has people in the 10.000's? Could he have been a druidic apprentice before he left and became an outlaw? Is he a sort of druidic dream pirate or did he genuinely make it past the Storming Sea with just a ship and a crew? Then second is, that he not only made it there, but apparently came back. And with a hull full of treasure, meaning he has lead successful raids on whoever lives West or raided old temples there which still held plenty of treasure. Now he's building a Fleet, the "greatest" Fleet ever seen among Pirates. That's gonna take time and some organization. I think the Nightsquall isn't how we go there, he's a minor 'threat' or neutral entity that is going to join us West later down the line, not immediately.

Iridikron. Like I wrote, I still fail to see what he wants to do when does have the attention of the Titans. That's what really irks me. He's a fly compared to an Old God. A molecule to the guy that ripped one out of the planet. Galakronds Essence can only be used as bait or a direct tool to get said attention. But I just don't see him ending up dying. Even if the reformed Titans don't end up powerful, I still just don't see him as a credible threat, when only the Aspects and Tyr took Galakrond down. What's his essence gonna do? I am more and more sold on the idea (not my idea of separating the Titans from eachother) that whatever he has in mind as revenge isn't a direct fight or direct revenge. It is deeper.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

Ah ok. Ill skim what I can tonight as I game and try to catch up. Im not able to play games and keep up with this thread at this point.

I think it will be mostly heavy lore discussions about new book for some time now, i don't personally care about it when it comes to next expansion announcement and leaks but it's the latest thing.


When i read some leaks mentioning player housing - i wonder how they would do it - through a TP to some land, going to instanced area ala garrisons or dungeon like area when you enter your new house, that you can buy in new city..

[Worldshaper]

So..

And this is just me, and I know this is something that is kind of up for interpretation...

But I've never really viewed the Earthmother as a standalone being. Not exactly. Lot of it is some of the older lore from RPGs, which were non-canon, but it lined up with other stuff and kind of colored my view overall.

Earthmother is...or was...the spirit that connected all living things. She was primarily worshipped by Shamanistic races. She lives in every sea and rock and plant and lifeform on Azeroth. She is the embodiment of nature in a way that lined up very specifically with the Element of Spirit as it was introduced. That's kind of what I always assumed the Earthmother was.

Not so much a singular being as much as a universal consciousness that those with the proper training can communicate with to some degree.

So like, everything is Earthmother, and that same universal consciousness can move and shake when it needs to make things happen, but insofar as being a singular entity it's not quite an accurate assessment? If that makes sense?

It probably started out this way, back in Warcraft 3 and Vanilla. A homage to native Americans, and their ancient beliefs in spirits, the earth, etc. Animism and stuff.

But we've seen Blizzard on a rampage lately, attempting to turn everything from myth and allegory into something real and mechanical. They like retrofitting stuff on old lore, whose original purpose was different.

Right now we're witnessing them do this with the Titans, the Emerald Dream, probably Elune, etc.

So it wouldn't surprise me if one of the oldest races on Azeroth actually knew what's up.

- - - Updated - - -

The Earthmother is just what the Tauren call Azeroth, or at least aspects of her.

It's no different to how we view the Earth as "Mother Earth" or how some people view her as the primordial named Gaia (Or at least, that's how she's viewed in Greek Mythology).

Was, at least. What about in this day and age, when Blizzard demystifies everything?

[matijwow]

EK and Kalimdor were designed for most players to walk around everywhere. That's probably why that Alterac expansion guy at least had the good sense to say the size of the zones were upscaled to be way larger.

[Dancaris]

The Vanilla zones being tiny compared to newer zones is something that people seem to overlook or don't see a a big deal. But I have pointed this out in another thread.. basically DF's zones usually have up to 6 races (aside from the Waking Shore having 8 races and Ohn'ahran Plains having 5 races) including in the Forbidden Reach and Zaralek Caverns.

The zones in EK and Kalimdor are much smaller by comparison aside from a few outliers like Hyjal, Uldum, and Twilight Highlands which were added in for Cata. So, it makes me wonder if they might one day merge some of the old zones into larger zones in order for a revamp to be possible or have them built in mind for Dragonriding. (Who can say really?)

That idea flows around speculation for at least 2-3expansions, when voices of world revamp team grow louder.

All 3 BE zones megred to Quel'Thalas zone
All dwarven zone to Khaz Modan.
Ne ones to 2 zones of Ashenvale and Hijal
(That would be sick, if you ask me)

and so on.

[Merryck]

It's insane how the Sun / An'she has had almost no lore development whatsoever.

[matijwow]

It isn't Life, that is true. It is an element, that is true. But the Titans also specifically seem to align it towards Life and Light on their biased chart.

At the end of Shadowlands, they set it up that Titans are aligned with Light and Death. The NPC Saezurah in Zereth Mortis says "Mortis. Lumen. Ordus. Rhythm and structure...Vitae. Umbra. Tumult. Improvisation and possibility." Mortis, Lumen, Ordus is Death, Light, Order.

Edit: Just realized I misread the post. Ignore this.

[Nibelheimy]

Ok I'm yet to sleep but I have some Ideas and have to wonder if peoples speculations on Avaloren to be an Arthurian inspired Fae paradise to be correct. If Avaloren and Khaz Algar are to be in the same area/same continent. It could be a plausible expansion setting to have. Could it be a possibility that instead of the world soul eating all of the Elemental Spirit, its instead the broken world tree Elun'ahir.

Avaloren could be a continent with a massive fissure through the centre. Inside the fissure is the roots of the world tree Elun'ahir, the roots of the world tree reach deep into the planet and have been absorbing the elemental force of spirit from the rest of the planet in an attempt to heal and regrow. At a point in time, a group of Earthern emerged to protect the roots. These have been influenced by the spirit elements from inside of the fissure and built Khaz'Algar into the sides of the fissure reaching deep down following the roots. The spirit energy and lack of any decay from old god influence has made them partly immune the curse of the flesh, allowing them to retain their earthen bodies. But glow green with the spirit element. Surrounding Avaloren are intense storms. The Khaz'Algarians have tamed/built earthen styled Gryphons that are also infused with the Spirit element. Dubbed stormriders, the spirit element they are being empowered by helps calm the storms around them as they fly through essentially protecting them. ( based on how our own elements are more chaotic without the spirit element).

Iridikon and Xal'Atath have arrived in Avaloren. Their destination is the base of the roots of the fissure. Iridikron uses the void soul to empower Xal'atath into her original old god form. (As shown in the chronicle old god border thingy) She expands and begins to wrap her way amongst the roots with her tentacles, instead of absorbing spirit energies the roots are now absorbing Galakrond decay energy. Or possibly even Old God void energies. Xal'Atath plans to absorb the spirit energy herself. Growing at an exelarated rate in order to burrow deep into the world soul and realise the old gods original wishes.

Although the continent of Avaloren is vast, the fissure of Khaz'Algar runs deep. The lack of Spirit energies could by causing any biomes surrounding the fissure problems, and at the tallest point of Khaz'Algar (Our new capital) There are reports from the deep places of the fissure that things have changed. The spirit is fading. Madness is falling the deeper you go down. The Algarians either send stormriders for help to the lands beyond the storms for the east, or I see Nightsquall taking us there. Thrall goes because as a shaman, he has some knowledge on the element of spirit.

I have written this off the top of my head at 6 am, so there may be some obvious lore inconsistencies with what we have recently learnt as I am half awake. Go easy on me. But I see this as a feasible expansion zone. There can be beautiful lands around the city and fissure, and terrifying dark zones the deeper we go. We can get beautiful Arthurian Forests, Moon mountains, Celtic styled highlands with windy cliffs and stormy seas. We also get a Dwarven city built into the sides of the fissure. That get deeper and deeper until it starts resembling an old god infused Mines of Moria. 11.0 may yet be an elemental expansion, just not the element anybody expected. Props to Dismayxz for getting my imagination ticking with the Gryphon texture Chi connection.

I imagine Uldaz could be a 10.2.5 /10.3 zone. A facility Iridkond and Xal'Atath use to locate the deepest part of the planet they can access. Leading us to this new expansion.

[Makorus]

Imagine making the Dragonflight pre-order mount a dragon you can't even dragon ride on. Could of easily been added as a Highland drake full transformation.

Still baffled the Preorder mount and the WotLK promo mount were not full transformations.

[Merryck]

The Dwarves delved too greedily and too deep. You know what they awoke in the darkness of Khaz'Algar ...

[Santandame]

In regards to Avaloren - isn't the book regarding the green dragon flying there to never return pointing towards it being based on Avalon/Camelot even moreso? I presume there's a new sect of dragons there.

I really do get the vibe that its going to be your typical classic western fantasy with knights, dragons, witches etc.

I also feel like the Amirdrassil boss, Nymue, is also a massive hint towards this because of the Nimue, the lady of the lake. I agree completely with @Ferlion that the ''heretics'' will be life based, all things considered.

I'm so ready for Toussaint in WoW.

- - - Updated - - -

Ok I'm yet to sleep but I have some Ideas and have to wonder if peoples speculations on Avaloren to be an Arthurian inspired Fae paradise to be correct. If Avaloren and Khaz Algar are to be in the same area/same continent. It could be a plausible expansion setting to have. Could it be a possibility that instead of the world soul eating all of the Elemental Spirit, its instead the broken world tree Elun'ahir.

Avaloren could be a continent with a massive fissure through the centre. Inside the fissure is the roots of the world tree Elun'ahir, the roots of the world tree reach deep into the planet and have been absorbing the elemental force of spirit from the rest of the planet in an attempt to heal and regrow. At a point in time, a group of Earthern emerged to protect the roots. These have been influenced by the spirit elements from inside of the fissure and built Khaz'Algar into the sides of the fissure reaching deep down following the roots. The spirit energy and lack of any decay from old god influence has made them partly immune the curse of the flesh, allowing them to retain their earthen bodies. But glow green with the spirit element. Surrounding Avaloren are intense storms. The Khaz'Algarians have tamed/built earthen styled Gryphons that are also infused with the Spirit element. Dubbed stormriders, the spirit element they are being empowered by helps calm the storms around them as they fly through essentially protecting them. ( based on how our own elements are more chaotic without the spirit element).

Iridikon and Xal'Atath have arrived in Avaloren. Their destination is the base of the roots of the fissure. Iridikron uses the void soul to empower Xal'atath into her original old god form. (As shown in the chronicle old god border thingy) She expands and begins to wrap her way amongst the roots with her tentacles, instead of absorbing spirit energies the roots are now absorbing Galakrond decay energy. Or possibly even Old God void energies. Xal'Atath plans to absorb the spirit energy herself. Growing at an exelarated rate in order to burrow deep into the world soul and realise the old gods original wishes.

Although the continent of Avaloren is vast, the fissure of Khaz'Algar runs deep. The lack of Spirit energies could by causing any biomes surrounding the fissure problems, and at the tallest point of Khaz'Algar (Our new capital) There are reports from the deep places of the fissure that things have changed. The spirit is fading. Madness is falling the deeper you go down. The Algarians either send stormriders for help to the lands beyond the storms for the east, or I see Nightsquall taking us there. Thrall goes because as a shaman, he has some knowledge on the element of spirit.

I have written this off the top of my head at 6 am, so there may be some obvious lore inconsistencies with what we have recently learnt as I am half awake. Go easy on me. But I see this as a feasible expansion zone. There can be beautiful lands around the city and fissure, and terrifying dark zones the deeper we go. We can get beautiful Arthurian Forests, Moon mountains, Celtic styled highlands with windy cliffs and stormy seas. We also get a Dwarven city built into the sides of the fissure. That get deeper and deeper until it starts resembling an old god infused Mines of Moria. 11.0 may yet be an elemental expansion, just not the element anybody expected. Props to Dismayxz for getting my imagination ticking with the Gryphon texture Chi connection.

I imagine Uldaz could be a 10.2.5 /10.3 zone. A facility Iridkond and Xal'Atath use to locate the deepest part of the planet they can access. Leading us to this new expansion.

I love the sound of all of this except for Xal'atath taking on her Old God form so soon. I want to keep her in her humanoid form for a bit just to make the character seem more accessible and personable. Her transformation can come later in the expansion. Unless, she can project an avatar of herself to us whilst in her Old God form.

Great write up. I would be down for this.

[lostsoup]

Looking at the new N'zoth quotes from the Thaldrazsus questline again, since according to Danuser they were written to hint at very specific things and judging by the Khaz Algar book and the new Storming Sea/etc. books their foreshadowing is essentially all for next expansion.

You will follow him to the deep places. The dark waters will flow in his wake.

At first I think everyone believed this was referring to following Fyrakk down to Zaralek, but no "dark waters flowed in his wake" or anything remotely of the sort. Maybe it was really an Iridikron/underground expansion hint?

Deeper, deeper its roots will reach. Welcoming our embrace.

This N'Zoth quote from Thaldrazsus might be referring to the underground world tree that Eonar planted. It's the most fitting "deep roots" I can think of, at least.

Her dreams sing beneath the surface. Our dreams. Our song.

More underground hints? Actually, all three of these quotes refer to things below ground...