The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Hitei]

THe real question is, where is their freedom taken away? Dragons seem perfectly capable of disorderly conduct. Half the flights got corrupted by the Void. Malygos was bleeding the planet dry. Heck the Infinites did not get corrupted by anyone, they CHOSE to be infinite and pretty much oppose one of the main concerns of Order. So whatever he infused them with, it sure as hell did not strip them of their free will.

Not sure "but the ones who got corrupted afterwards were able to pursue their own goals" is the best argument for them being free under Order infusion.

We saw with the Dracthyr that Order magic can be used as essentially magical brainwashing. The argument could be made that their entire default outlook is compromised and not indicative of what the Dragons would actually want if they hadn't been ordered.

Not being mindless slaves lacking any free will doesn't mean they're completely free.

[Nymrohd]

Not sure "but the ones who got corrupted afterwards were able to pursue their own goals" is the best argument for them being free under Order infusion.

OK then what about the examples I gave of dragons who were NOT corrupted? Being an infinite is not a corruption, it is a choice.

[Hitei]

OK then what about all the examples I gave of people who were NOT corrupted?

I mean... read the entire post instead of just the first line?

"Not being mindless slaves lacking any free will doesn't mean they're completely free."

[Woggmer]

Tbf, they have the "titans are evil" expansion already set up quite well. Eonar and prolly Amitus will be on our side though, to give us "shades of grey" instead of all-out evil titans.

True, but the real challenge does come down to the Keepers.

What I suspect is that we are gonna end up going to war with the Titan Keepers in some fashion and eventually kill them all (unlike the Titans who can see reason in some way, the Keepers were designed to manage Azeroth autonomously, they are more machine than understanding.)

My guess is that because of what happens to the Thorignir, Odyn will turn the other Keepers hostile towards us and start some "purge" and as a result we go to war against the Titans to prevent this.. So we enlist the aid of the Elemental Lords along with the Incarnate Dragons to fight back against the Keepers. Which all of them get killed resulting in one of them sending a distress beacon to the Titans.
Titans show up to see what happened to the Keepers.. then Iridikron shows himself along with his void allies to attack the Titans when they arrive.

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They can always pull the "secret Dreadlord" card. But yes we will probably cheated out of it. Same way Ny'alotha became a patch and Dark Rangers became an unlockable customization option.

*sigh*

The only possible bet is if the Scarlet Crusade expanded further and got other members aside from humans in their ranks. Which they did have in the past like having a High Elf ranger and a Dwarf member based on the statues that we found in the room we fight Herod in.

And the only other possibility is maybe if Turalyon or some of the members of the Alliance are secretly involved with the Scarlet Crusade.

[Nymrohd]

I mean... read the entire post instead of just the first line?

"Not being mindless slaves lacking any free will doesn't mean they're completely free."

WHere do we have any indication that they are not completely free though? What act have you seen from dragons to suggest anything that comes from forced nature instead of nurture?

[Lady Atia]

True, but the real challenge does come down to the Keepers.

What I suspect is that we are gonna end up going to war with the Titan Keepers in some fashion and eventually kill them all (unlike the Titans who can see reason in some way, the Keepers were designed to manage Azeroth autonomously, they are more machine than understanding.)

My guess is that because of what happens to the Thorignir, Odyn will turn the other Keepers hostile towards us and start some "purge" and as a result we go to war against the Titans to prevent this.. So we enlist the aid of the Elemental Lords along with the Incarnate Dragons to fight back against the Keepers. Which all of them get killed resulting in one of them sending a distress beacon to the Titans.
Titans show up to see what happened to the Keepers.. then Iridikron shows himself along with his void allies to attack the Titans when they arrive.

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The only possible bet is if the Scarlet Crusade expanded further and got other members aside from humans in their ranks. Which they did have in the past like having a High Elf ranger and a Dwarf member based on the statues that we found in the room we fight Herod in.

And the only other possibility is maybe if Turalyon or some of the members of the Alliance are secretly involved with the Scarlet Crusade.

They could also use light elementals, and maybe an enslaved dragon.

[Wangming]

We saw with the Dracthyr that Order magic can be used as essentially magical brainwashing. The argument could be made that their entire default outlook is compromised and not indicative of what the Dragons would actually want if they hadn't been ordered.

The entire dracthyr origin and starting area is a whole plot hole riddled mess. It smells like they knew what point A B and C they wanted, but had no idea how to get there. The devs I mean.

[Hitei]

WHere do we have any indication that they are not completely free though? What act have you seen from dragons to suggest anything that comes from forced nature instead of nurture?

I mean, spending like fifteen to twenty thousand years doing a job (or attempting to) simply because someone asked, while insisting that it's your bound duty, and that they are the rightful power in the world isn't exactly a great case for freedom.

An entire sentient species following a specific set of instructions isn't exactly a great case for everything being on the up and up.

A groomed child or someone indoctrinated into a cult still has free will. That doesn't make it not indoctrination or grooming. This just happens to be a case of magical AND traditional indoctrination. Again, we have the Dracthyr as a direct parallel, the Dracthyr who, exactly like the Dragons are super good soldiers seemingly proud to serve Neltharion... because they've had Order magic pouring into their heads.

Chromie attemps to save Nozdormu from the inevitable downfall and death that Aman'thul made for him, all while insisting that the Titans have everyone's best interests at heart. Does that not sound like actions of someone who might have been indoctrinated? Is it not even a little suspicious that Ysera just nodded and went along with being (at the time) permanently put to sleep, locked in another plane away from her friends and family so that she could guard a different realm? The dragons were successfully convinced to draw lines and then ultimately fight against their own kind in the name of the titans and the Titan's specific vision for the planet. Is that itself not suspicious?

Again, their entire outlook is compromised. We don't know what is natural state or not because all ordered dragons have had their brains fucked around with to such a degree that it's impossible to tell what pro-Titan beliefs are magically induced and what are culturally derived from their collective beliefs, but given that their entire species has been ordered, the fact that they have a species-wide inclination to be pro-Titan is itself suspect.

[Skildar]

I've yet to see any implication that infinite dragonflight is bound by anything other their own desire to be part of tmsuch flight.

To me dragons, whatever flight they are part of, are as free as they choose to be and just feel a sense of duty to act as gardians. The blue dragonflight might be an excellent example of this as most of the flight does not follow the call to the dragon isles because they juste do not feel like this is their duty anymore.

[KurtMash]

So, assuming that the main theme of the next expac is anti-titan / storm / Elun'ahir related, what could be its title?

World of Warcraft: Reordering
World of Warcraft: Titanfall
World of Warcraft: New Order
World of Warcraft: The Root of All Evil
World of Warcraft: Riders on the Storm
World of Warcraft: Winds of Change
World of Warcraft: Thunderstruck

For some reason most of the names that come to my mind are music related... Bard confirmed? (:

[Enrif]

i have seen one of the fake leaks, and it mentioned something that was datamined quite some time ago, which i totally forgot about.

- The Azure Worldchiller (Mount for the Anniversary event shortly after blizzcon)

and this got me thinking about a few things.

Why is the Primalist Future a snowy area? With Vyranoth supposedly joining us and getting empowered by the world tree, nothing bad can happen from that right?
Besides Razageth's clear storm theme, Vyranoth's ice theme is the closest that could work for a storm. I mean a blizzard (hmm) is nothing but a very cold storm. So a Stormrider Mount for a snow storm?
From the 10.2 ptr quests, Vyranaoth seems to get other dragons into the fold, notably the stormdrakes of the broken isles, which a part of them where the Squallhunters, fitting for a Squally pet? Even if not that, most Squall named elementals in the game are ice or water elementals.

Basically, i think we are in a rude awakening post 10.2, with Vyranoth turning on Alextrazsa, getting her new world tree empowered skills into motion.

There is also something small, but it fits in the theme. There is an NPC in WoW that is called Algar the Chosen. Probably a coincidence, but he was a Ymiryar (basically undead frost Vrykul) in a Wrath quest, riding an frostwyrm. Part of the Quest "The Storm King's Vengeance", given by Gymer, King of the Storm Giants. Lot of conections of frost and storm. Btw, Wrath had also a big scuffle between Varian and Sylvanas, and we got Transmog sets related to them datamined too.

might be grasping at straws, but this got me really thinking.

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So, assuming that the main theme of the next expac is anti-titan / storm / Elun'ahir related, what could be its title?

World of Warcraft: Reordering
World of Warcraft: Titanfall
World of Warcraft: New Order
World of Warcraft: The Root of All Evil
World of Warcraft: Riders on the Storm
World of Warcraft: Winds of Change
World of Warcraft: Thunderstruck

For some reason most of the names that come to my mind are music related... Bard confirmed? (:

World of Warcraft: Blizzard

[Wangming]

So, assuming that the main theme of the next expac is anti-titan / storm / Elun'ahir related, what could be its title?

World of Warcraft: Reordering
World of Warcraft: Titanfall
World of Warcraft: New Order
World of Warcraft: The Root of All Evil
World of Warcraft: Riders on the Storm
World of Warcraft: Winds of Change
World of Warcraft: Thunderstruck

For some reason most of the names that come to my mind are music related... Bard confirmed? (:

World of Warcraft: Alestorm
Dwarf and Storm related. And pirates related of course.
Followed by the reclamation of Gilneas in the worgen expansion:
World of WarCraft: Powerwolf

[Pheraz]

World of Warcraft: Blizzard

I loled so hard at this xD

Ok I'm trying too:

World of Warcraft: Avaloren
World of Warcraft: Reign of the Heretics
World of Warcraft: The Forgotten Empires
World of Warcraft: Terizs and the Elements
World of Warcraft: Battle Of Storms
World of Warcraft: Westcoast

[Fahrad Wagner]

I loled so hard at this xD

Ok I'm trying too:

World of Warcraft: Avaloren
World of Warcraft: Reign of the Heretics
World of Warcraft: The Forgotten Empires
World of Warcraft: Terizs and the Elements
World of Warcraft: Battle Of Storms
World of Warcraft: Westcoast

This one is the real one for sure

[ImTheMizAwesome]

I wonder if blizzard has some crazy trading post lineup for november, it's a big month.

[Sondrelk]

The entire dracthyr origin and starting area is a whole plot hole riddled mess. It smells like they knew what point A B and C they wanted, but had no idea how to get there. The devs I mean.

It's not all that bad I think. The actual origins in how exactly he made them is s bit fuzzy, but I don't think it's that out there that there was a magical Titan macguffin that let Neltharion dominate minds.

[PaladinBash]

I wonder if blizzard has some crazy trading post lineup for november, it's a big month.

My money's on the Scarlet Zealot set and possibly the Dwarf hammers that got datamined recently. Hallow's End has a bunch of Scarlet Crusade questlines this year so it will be fresh in people's minds and the Dwarf stuff is tied, presumably, to Blizzcon, which releases that month.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

My money's on the Scarlet Zealot set and possibly the Dwarf hammers that got datamined recently. Hallow's End has a bunch of Scarlet Crusade questlines this year so it will be fresh in people's minds and the Dwarf stuff is tied, presumably, to Blizzcon, which releases that month.

Could be the hammers although i think they were added to the files in 10.2, right?

Scarlet stuff i can see, because i think they were added before and current speculation is that 10.2 releases after blizzcon, but who knows.

[Raetary]

I wonder if blizzard has some crazy trading post lineup for november, it's a big month.

Perhaps.

I'm really just expecting to get extra tender for the anniverssary

[Joszef Kiprich]

This one is the real one for sure

Yep with Bard as new class and only Tinker NPC's.