The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Magistrate]

I don't believe any of the actual titans use the Light, but many of the keepers do. We know that the keepers are fully individualised, so I wonder if it isn't something that they just decided to do on their own. The Prime Designate himself heavily utilises the Light and I believe is even referred to as a follower of the Light in a fairly recent lore book.

Also important to note that Chronicle was apparently a biased telling of creation by the titans' followers, not the titans themselves (I think). Chronicle places Light and Void as the most fundamental forces in the universe from which everything else comes, which is really confusing if it's meant to be titan propaganda. I wouldn't be surprised if the Light has infiltrated the keepers, especially considering it's otherwise apparently just left the world to be infested with Old Gods without a single care.

I think we'll find out with Tyr considering he's probably the heaviest actual user of the Light among the keepers.

The first chronicle was written before they decided to say it was all POV. The later ones feel like it from the way they're written. But the first one at least was a delivery on a promise I'm vaguely remembering from the time that it was an objective, reliable source of lore. That was the reason the series was so exciting at first, and then when it suited them they went the Titan POV route.

I maintain at least the first book can to some extent be taken more literally and you'll more than likely be right vs what followed. The second one didn't have that feeling either to me.

Remember they started coming out long before the cosmology changes that hit in Shadowlands. There were maybe some references that became more pronounced but it was really before the cosmology retcon/revamp.

Because of that, I believe we can trust in the cosmology aspects which were mostly laid down in the first one.

[Worldshaper]

Argument from incredulity. And while your supposed counterargument isn't likely, i wouldn't exactly call it impossible. It also isn't remotely the same situation, as a setting is more than simply precedent. Having an expansion set in the Koprulu sector would bring far more issues with it that need to be explained somehow, like how our abilities still work in a setting that is far more grounded in real world physics.

Precedent is not a good argument for why something will happen in the first place. There's nothing forcing Blizzard to act the same way again, so you can't simply assume they will just because they did the last time. There's also the problem that Thrall could be slotted into nearly any story they want so he wouldn't be useful for a prediction anyway. Given everything going on, he's likely simply representing WarCraft as a whole.
Dismissing precedent in this situation does not require much effort. It's a very weak support to begin with. Precedent is a good explanation for why something happened or why a scenario is plausible. Not for why it will happen again.

Hold on, so I'm not allowed to use a decade-long precedent set by Blizzard themselves, and which we have no indication of having changed as of this moment... but you're allowed to just assume that he's only on there as a figurehead for the franchise?

[huth]

Hold on, so I'm not allowed to use a decade-long precedent set by Blizzard themselves, and which we have no indication of having changed as of this moment... but you're allowed to just assume that he's on there as a figurehead for the franchise?

No. Which is why i don't.

[Worldshaper]

No. Which is why i don't.

You just did...

[Raetary]

Has anyone else noticed that the Titans and their underlings always seem to use holy magic? They are supposed to be beings of order, but you never see them using arcane magic for anything.

It's not light, it's just Order.
Blizz just decided to make it yellow.

And they did, their machinery was explicitly powered ny arcane power since the chronicles revealed what the arcane was.

But that connection was more or less retconned.

[Palapop]

Part from new books added in 10.2 PTR:


Erinethria had flown to the far corners of Kalimdor and back. She had witnessed wondrous sights, and loved to share stories of them with her kin.
Yet there came a day when Erinethria felt she had seen all there was to see of the world. She grew bored. Restless.

Erinethria sought the wisdom of Keeper Tyr.
"Great keeper, is there any mystery left for me to discover? Any riddle yet to be solved?"
"Everything you need is here, child. What more could you want to see? What else could you seek to know?"

As the dragon's brow furrowed, a cool wind blew in from the west.
"The breeze, great keeper. I wish to see the place from whence the winds are born."
Tyr grew solemn. "Beyond the Storming Sea lies only ruin. Stay close to home. Stay close to kin." (so that land to the west of Kalimdor is no home for dragons)

Tyr's warning hung like a shadow over Erinethria's heart. It clashed again and again with her deep yearning for answers.
One bright morning, the green dragon bid farewell to her clutchmates.
"Fear not," she told them, "for I can fly higher than any storm. Faster than any thunder. And when I know from whence the west winds come. I shall return home and tell you all!"

And with that, Erinethria soared into the sky.
Moons passed. And still more. Yet brave Erinethria did not return.
Even Ysera woke from her dreaming to aid in the search. But there was no sign to be found.

Most believed that Erinethria was lost to the Storming Sea. That her mighty wings grew tired and torn by the harsh winds, and that she tumbled into the roiling waters.
But some greens claimed that they saw her in their dreams. That she reached a land beyond, where she raised a brood of her own. (Green dragons are present in that "Beyond the storming sea" zone, west from Kalimdor)










there are also many implications about Emerald Dream being something Titans don't adore that much. And that it might be connected to "other realms of life" at "far reaches of the Emerald Dream".

Interesting stuff tbh.

[flan1337]

ngl i miss the stormbreak leak - it was fun hopefully we get another one of those

[Palapop]

It's 99% something about storm/ing sea, new land (west from Kalimdor)... etc, etc, etc....

So far every bunch of "speculations/leaks" about upcoming expansions were at least right about THEME of next expansion.

- - - Updated - - -

Add: I can also see that "land beyond the storming sea" which is "unfriendly to dragon kin" could be heavily old God/void influenced.
And I could see Azshara going there for the "true source of power" once we freed her from Ny'Alotha.

Maybe she knew N'zoth would run away and won't allow us to kill him?

Who can know lands better beyond the storming sea than nagas who can travel all across the globe freely?

[FossilFree]

It's not light, it's just Order.
Blizz just decided to make it yellow.

And they did, their machinery was explicitly powered ny arcane power since the chronicles revealed what the arcane was.

But that connection was more or less retconned.

Nah, it's definitely holy magic.

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=387708/tyrs-wrath
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=387740/bulwark-of-order

Keep in mind, these were made in Dragonflight, not years ago. So this is certainly intentional.

[seainma]

Part from new books added in 10.2 PTR:


Erinethria had flown to the far corners of Kalimdor and back. She had witnessed wondrous sights, and loved to share stories of them with her kin.
Yet there came a day when Erinethria felt she had seen all there was to see of the world. She grew bored. Restless.

Erinethria sought the wisdom of Keeper Tyr.
"Great keeper, is there any mystery left for me to discover? Any riddle yet to be solved?"
"Everything you need is here, child. What more could you want to see? What else could you seek to know?"

As the dragon's brow furrowed, a cool wind blew in from the west.
"The breeze, great keeper. I wish to see the place from whence the winds are born."
Tyr grew solemn. "Beyond the Storming Sea lies only ruin. Stay close to home. Stay close to kin." (so that land to the west of Kalimdor is no home for dragons)

Tyr's warning hung like a shadow over Erinethria's heart. It clashed again and again with her deep yearning for answers.
One bright morning, the green dragon bid farewell to her clutchmates.
"Fear not," she told them, "for I can fly higher than any storm. Faster than any thunder. And when I know from whence the west winds come. I shall return home and tell you all!"

And with that, Erinethria soared into the sky.
Moons passed. And still more. Yet brave Erinethria did not return.
Even Ysera woke from her dreaming to aid in the search. But there was no sign to be found.

Most believed that Erinethria was lost to the Storming Sea. That her mighty wings grew tired and torn by the harsh winds, and that she tumbled into the roiling waters.
But some greens claimed that they saw her in their dreams. That she reached a land beyond, where she raised a brood of her own. (Green dragons are present in that "Beyond the storming sea" zone, west from Kalimdor)










there are also many implications about Emerald Dream being something Titans don't adore that much. And that it might be connected to "other realms of life" at "far reaches of the Emerald Dream".

Interesting stuff tbh.

Absolutely. These lore books have been great throughout the expansion. With Ysera getting a Murlock pet. I wonder if she will be important when we go beyond the storming sea. I've been thinking why the writers would choose the green dragonflight to fly over to the other continent

And what does Tyr mean by the land is in ruin? Could it be the Black Empire, the Fifth Old God? Or maybe even the Elemental Lord of Decay?

[KayRule]

I have a feeling the descriptions of the land being in ruin and the people being heretics is Titan propaganda. It's a land not of their influence/design, I don't think it necessarily has to be fucked up and corrupted and voided out, I think it's just the Titans being sour.

[Scaleface]

Your Children hunger! @Scaleface

I read every page of speculation passionately

[flan1337]

I read every page of speculation passionately

nice profile pic... and location...

AI generated but maybe you seen something that couldnt be shared...?

Edit: read your previous post - makes sense!

[KayRule]

It'd be cool if it was underground, and the world soul of Azeroth appeared as sort of a "moon" in the sky.

[Santandame]

It's 99% something about storm/ing sea, new land (west from Kalimdor)... etc, etc, etc....

So far every bunch of "speculations/leaks" about upcoming expansions were at least right about THEME of next expansion.

- - - Updated - - -

Add: I can also see that "land beyond the storming sea" which is "unfriendly to dragon kin" could be heavily old God/void influenced.
And I could see Azshara going there for the "true source of power" once we freed her from Ny'Alotha.

Maybe she knew N'zoth would run away and won't allow us to kill him?

Who can know lands better beyond the storming sea than nagas who can travel all across the globe freely?

It doesn't say that it is unfriendly to dragon kin. Just that Tyr tells her not to go there, which could be for several reasons. It's more than likely the Titans/Keepers are being untruthful and have their own reasons for their subjects to not want to go there.

Based off all the hints we have currently it seems as if the main cosmic force of that land, likely Avaloren, will be Life based. Though its more than likely going to have a Void theme as well.

[Ferlion]

It doesn't say that it is unfriendly to dragon kin. Just that Tyr tells her not to go there, which could be for several reasons. It's more than likely the Titans/Keepers are being untruthful and have their own reasons for their subjects to not want to go there.

Based off all the hints we have currently it seems as if the main cosmic force of that land, likely Avaloren, will be Life based. Though its more than likely going to have a Void theme as well.

It has to also be said that, ultimately, the Titans aren't "wrong".

Looking at the timeframes involved, the creatures that would have been alive and running around at the time are powerful. Like, fundamentally powerful enough to destabilize the Titans work if they were to be swayed by other Elemental Powers.

Look at the Bronze Dragons, who can rewrite history. Or the Dragons of Nightmare, which were using their powers to subjugate and change the mortal realm and the Emerald Dream.

The Titans created creatures that can interact with the other forces and order creations in a way that they see fit, but those same creatures then also become a security risk when they are removed from the clean room environment that the Titans set up.

A Green Dragon off to the other side of the world, unmonitored, could prove to be a massive problem that could completely undue the Titans work.

Like, we tend to look at Dragons as barely a problem at this point, so it's easy to forget that fully grown Dragons top level threats.

[Worldshaper]

As one storm recedes, another rises.

I like this bit from A Song of the Depths. This is figurative and literal.

Deathwing was the Harbinger of the Hour of Twilight in Cataclysm. His flight across Azeroth was a storm of sorts, causing upheaval and disturbing the elements.

Xal'atath is the Harbinger of the Hour of Twilight in Dragonflight, and she's about to bring the storm to Azeroth.

But we've also just seen Razegeth's storm fade over the Forbidden Reach at the point this book was found, and there's a new storm coming in 11.0, (as suggested by datamining and in-game books).

[huth]

Nah, it's definitely holy magic.

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=387708/tyrs-wrath
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=387740/bulwark-of-order

Keep in mind, these were made in Dragonflight, not years ago. So this is certainly intentional.

Spell Schools are not the same as cosmic forces. Holy is not The Light, Shadow is not Void. For that matter, Maldraxxus and Revendreth Covenant abilities were all Shadow school, while Ardenweald was Nature and Bastion was Arcane, despite all 4 being Death aligned.

This means absolutely nothing.

[Wangming]

Morning gentlemen, ladies and non binaries!
Did i miss anything good?

[FelPlague]

That wasn't my argument. My argument is that the BlizzCon elemental is hint of what the WoW expansion's theme is going to be. The Algarian Stormrider also likely being an elemental backs that up.

The algarian stormrider is likely the dragon riding storm gyprhon we datamined. It is a grpyhon model that is covered in a stormy aeshtetic and with lightning visuals attached, that was datamined alongside the ability for grpyhons to dragon ride.
pair that with multiple dwarf based "Storm rider" cosmetics datamined as well.
The algarian stormrider is NOT the elemental we see in the blizzcon promoitional material, that is a giant frost elemental, I highly doubt you would call a frost elemental a "storm rider".