The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Sondrelk]

Don't be such a sourdough. We may never know when an unexpected data mine or a fake-looking expansion concept hits us.

We shall see. Though I will refrain from getting too excited until Blizzcon proper.

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Eh, should only be two or so weeks in drought. Surely the Blizzcon rewards either this week or next. Then, unless they've actually managed to sort their shit out for the first time ever (lol - no) we're bound to get a real leak of some sort mixed in amongst the torrent of fakes.

All we can hope for in the middle is more PTR additions; either intentional like the recent lore books or we get real lucky and something shows up accidentally in the style of the iron horde banner. But chances are we should all go do something productive for that period, discussions are bound to get really cyclical...

The real leaks should begin once Blizzcon proper starts being organized at the convention center and non-Blizzcon staff has a chance to get their hands on press kits, or listen to the rehearsals.

Hopefully we get some good leaks. The Shadowlands one with Bolvar is probably my favorite so far, because it told us so much, and yet so little we didnt already know.

[Dracullus]

This week we are gonna get:

Blizzcon Rewards and 10.2 release date.

And that's gonna be it until Blizzcon. It's going to be a boring month.

We truly live in tik-tok times. Most exciting month outside expac launch and people call it boring cause there won't be official news for 2 weeks xD.

Reminds me of people panicking last year that expac is coming mid-2023 cause there wasn't pre-order or Alpha right after DF reveal.

[Nymrohd]

We shall see. Though I will refrain from getting too excited until Blizzcon proper.

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The real leaks should begin once Blizzcon proper starts being organized at the convention center and non-Blizzcon staff has a chance to get their hands on press kits, or listen to the rehearsals.

Hopefully we get some good leaks. The Shadowlands one with Bolvar is probably my favorite so far, because it told us so much, and yet so little we didnt already know.

I don't even know if that is a good call anymore. I got so excited for WoD (and then cancelled my preorder when they cancelled Karabor as a capital and pretended they never said it would happen). I got so excited for BfA. I even was somewhat excited for Torghast as a potential solo advancement path then seeing how happy testers were about it for Alpha only for both the reward system and the content to change completely by launch. It's just hard to trust them anymore.

[Myrrh]

Oh for sure. Can somebody who is not stuck in an office look up when the legit leaks hit the speculation threads for each expansion compared to BlizzCon? That could give us a pretty good guestimate.

Super quick dump of recent ones that come to mind and I could find proof for dates:

Shadowlands unveiled at Blizzcon 2019, starting 1 Nov: Truely cracked URL wizardry revealed Bolvar on the merch store about 28 Oct. Bastion image was being spread around various discord servers (and here) a few days prior.
Dragonflight unveiled on stream 19 April: Pre-purchases in source code noticed around 2 April, certificates registered 29 March. Can't be bothered trawling further for the photo of the promo material or the Scaleface posts, but I vaguely remember it being effectively week of.

The DF crt.sh find was actually a lot earlier than I thought.

[Wangming]

Hopefully we get some good leaks. The Shadowlands one with Bolvar is probably my favorite so far, because it told us so much, and yet so little we didnt already know.

I remember so many were convinced it is not real. because the color is wrong or some shit...I loved that.

[Lady Atia]

I don't even know if that is a good call anymore. I got so excited for WoD (and then cancelled my preorder when they cancelled Karabor as a capital and pretended they never said it would happen). I got so excited for BfA. I even was somewhat excited for Torghast as a potential solo advancement path then seeing how happy testers were about it for Alpha only for both the reward system and the content to change completely by launch. It's just hard to trust them anymore.

It's still baffling how much they messed up Torghast lol. It's like someone saw that it had the potential to be a real pillar of the game and they were fearing people wouldn't want to play m+/raids anymore so they completely wracked it but also made it mandatory at the same time.

[Wangming]

Super quick dump of recent ones that come to mind and I could find proof for dates:

Shadowlands unveiled at Blizzcon 2019, starting 1 Nov: Truely cracked URL wizardry revealed Bolvar on the merch store about 28 Oct. Bastion image was being spread around various discord servers (and here) a few days prior.
Dragonflight unveiled on stream 19 April: Pre-purchases in source code noticed around 2 April, certificates registered 29 March. Can't be bothered trawling further for the photo of the promo material or the Scaleface posts, but I vaguely remember it being effectively week of.

The DF crt.sh find was actually a lot earlier than I thought.

That is very interesting, thank you. I seem to recall that the legit BfA leak was very early but it was just a few lines of stuff inide a longer thread and we only knew it was legit in hindsight.
Remember the good old days when a trademark kickstarted the discussions?
And how both the expansion name and the eventual true leak was so goddamn out of your mind stupid that nobody believed WoD until Blizzard showed a promo vid were some guy accidentally stood in front of a flag during an interview and the WoD title card was on it?

[Myrrh]

I remember so many were convinced it is not real. because the color is wrong or some shit...I loved that.

Samesies, similar vibes to WoD. I was so convinced that SoL leak was utter BS, because of course timetravelling orc shananigans couldn't be real. Healthy dose of humble pie there.

[Wangming]

It's still baffling how much they messed up Torghast lol. It's like someone saw that it had the potential to be a real pillar of the game and they were feared people wouldn't want to play m+/raids anymore so they completely wracked it but also made it mandatory at the same time.

I don't want to bring up Deep Dungeons, but....yeah. Deep Dungeons.

[Worldshaper]

Time for a tinfoil theory (mostly just spitballing).

This old concept art of the Tempest Keep was made by one of the guys who was in Sons of the Storm, along with Metzen and Didier, Peter Lee.



(If the image doesn't load, you can just see it on the Tempest Keep Wowpedia page near the bottom.)

It is the Naaru dimensional ship that the Naaru used to aid Outland in TBC. One of its satellites was the Exodar.

Colour scheme is pretty similar to the unused gryphon textures. It has tempest in the name. It was made by the Naaru. It even has what looks like dwarven runes on it, in the image, lol.

Avaloren is a Naaru stronghold, inhabited by those serving the Light instead of Order.

Naaru lore will be expanded in 11.0, so they're not just yellow wind chimes, but diverse creatures of Light and Shadow, and their pure form (both combined) is sort of ghostly green and surrounded by chaotic energies.

Naaru are long lost brethren according to Xal'atath. So maybe she represents pure Void while they're more dynamic, seeking to bring balance. Maybe Naaru are the remnants left behind when creatures such as Old God, Void Lords, and some Light-aligned counterpart dies.

Could have something to do with Elune as well. Maybe the White Lady and Blue Child symbolise this balance on Azeroth. Harmony. Similar to the Great Cycle with Elune and the Winter Queen that we learned about in Shadowlands. Plays into that whole theme with the Embrace of the two moons, as well.

So there could be a clash of Light and Shadow after all, but not just stereotypical "Naaru and Draenei vs. Old Gods" or whatever, but more nuanced. And the Elements might be involved, too, if there's some type of Balanced Naaru on Azeroth (or its moons).

Explains those ecco domes as well.

Okay tinfoil over.

[Dracullus]

I don't even know if that is a good call anymore. I got so excited for WoD (and then cancelled my preorder when they cancelled Karabor as a capital and pretended they never said it would happen). I got so excited for BfA. I even was somewhat excited for Torghast as a potential solo advancement path then seeing how happy testers were about it for Alpha only for both the reward system and the content to change completely by launch. It's just hard to trust them anymore.

For me every expansion was worth box price, cause it gives solid 2 weeks of intense gameplay. My favourite launch was BfA even it's far from my favourite expansion, it was perfect balance between down-to-earth but still interesting story and on top of that I had something like 2nd launch when I started Alliance character week later.

Key is what happens after launch, notice that all modern expansion with 'good' reputation (MoP, Legion, DF) had their first patch released very fast. It's not only about content, but also fixing launch problems faster. Without that, small issues become big months later, and serious ones - unbearable.

[Wangming]

Samesies, similar vibes to WoD. I was so convinced that SoL leak was utter BS, because of course timetravelling orc shananigans couldn't be real. Healthy dose of humble pie there.

My gripe was World of WarCraft: Warlords of Draenor is such a cheesy ass title. Like I get it, there is War in it. Chill out edgy boy.
And I still think the title is retarded.
My big humble pie was MoP. With the bitter taste of Uldum in my mouth I was convinced an expansion based on Chinese culture would be a disaster because it would be dumb racist memes. And we ended up with the best continent in game. Boy was I glad to be wrong.

[Nymrohd]

For me every expansion was worth box price, cause it gives solid 2 weeks of intense gameplay. My favourite launch was BfA even it's far from my favourite expansion, it was perfect balance between down-to-earth but still interesting story and on top of that I had something like 2nd launch when I started Alliance character week later.

Key is what happens after launch, notice that all modern expansion with 'good' reputation (MoP, Legion, DF) had their first patch released very fast. It's not only about content, but also fixing launch problems faster. Without that, small issues become big months later, and serious ones - unbearable.

Oh I will not dispute that. Every expansion will be decent fun for at least a couple of months for me. I will get my money's worth. It is not the highest quality of entertainment, I am not going to compare an hour playing WoW with e.g. an hour playing a quality CRPG like the Witcher 3 or BG3. But it is good enough.

And also I think it's worth nothing that the big issues with each of the problem expansions were very different.

[Myrrh]

Time for a tinfoil theory (mostly just spitballing).

This old concept art of the Tempest Keep was made by one of the guys who was in Sons of the Storm, along with Metzen and Didier, Peter Lee.

It is the Naaru dimensional ship that the Naaru used to aid Outland in TBC. One of its satellites was the Exodar.

Colour scheme is pretty similar to the unused gryphon textures. It has tempest in the name. It was made by the Naaru.

Avaloren is a Naaru stronghold, inhabited by those serving the Light instead of Order.

Naaru lore will be expanded in 11.0, so they're not just yellow wind chimes, but diverse creatures of Light and Shadow, and their pure form (both combined) is sort of ghostly green and surrounded by chaotic energies.

Naaru are long lost brethren according to Xal'atath. So maybe she represents pure Void while they're more dynamic, seeking to bring balance.

Could have something to do with Elune as well. Maybe the White Lady and Blue Child symbolise this balance on Azeroth. Harmony. Similar to the Great Cycle with Elune and the Winter Queen that we learned about in Shadowlands. Plays into that whole theme with the Embrace of the two moons, as well.

So there could be a clash of Light and Shadow after all, but not just stereotypical "Naaru and Draenei vs. Old Gods" or whatever, but more nuanced. And the Elements might be involved, too, if there's some type of Balanced Naaru on Azeroth (or its moons).

Explains those ecco domes as well.

Okay tinfoil over.

Ah heck, I forgot about those domes. On thinking about them again, pretty sure (or at least hopeful) that they're just fancy visuals for Outland racing. They were added in the same build as the achievements for Netherstorm racing, so I'm mildly confident that's all they are:
https://www.wowhead.com/achievement=...n-reverse-gold
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=209594/eco-dome-hole-mid

But to your main point, I think I'd be a bit miffed if Avaloren turned into crystal palace #422. I say that being rather fond of the Naaru, but really hopeful for some new stuff and the possibilities people have theorised about here sound like a breath of fresh air.

[Worldshaper]

Ah heck, I forgot about those domes. On thinking about them again, pretty sure (or at least hopeful) that they're just fancy visuals for Outland racing. They were added in the same build as the achievements for Netherstorm racing, so I'm mildly confident that's all they are:
https://www.wowhead.com/achievement=...n-reverse-gold
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=209594/eco-dome-hole-mid

But to your main point, I think I'd be a bit miffed if Avaloren turned into crystal palace #422. I say that being rather fond of the Naaru, but really hopeful for some new stuff and the possibilities people have theorised about here sound like a breath of fresh air.

Fair enough. I'm really just spitballing though.

Maybe, if any of this ended up being true, they wouldn't go in the "crystal/draenei/oldschool Naaru" direction, but something else. Perhaps the Black Empire drew inspiration from this place, or maybe it's something entirely new. Chaotic energies, lots of greens and blacks, sure. But new architecture we haven't seen before.

"Heretics" could imply that the titanforged who went there chose to align themselves with this Light/Shadow/whatever thingie instead of Order.

Although I suppose crystals could be part of it, if we're going underground.

Maybe there's something similar to the Osho'gun down there at Khaz Algar. A huge, radiant crystal of greenish energies. A Fallen Light/Void God? Is Elune perhaps some kind of offshoot from that, or a reflection of its dormant powers? Sort of how Y'shaarj left the Sha behind.

Is Azeroth really one of those, and have the Titans merely been trying to shape her in their image instead, to contain any potential damage if she turns into a Void Lord-direction?

[Sondrelk]

For me every expansion was worth box price, cause it gives solid 2 weeks of intense gameplay. My favourite launch was BfA even it's far from my favourite expansion, it was perfect balance between down-to-earth but still interesting story and on top of that I had something like 2nd launch when I started Alliance character week later.

Key is what happens after launch, notice that all modern expansion with 'good' reputation (MoP, Legion, DF) had their first patch released very fast. It's not only about content, but also fixing launch problems faster. Without that, small issues become big months later, and serious ones - unbearable.

BfA was definitely my favorite launch. It seemd to have everything I could ever want from an expansion, bar player boats.
It had a naval theme. HvA storylines. Old God undercurrents. Naga. Uban zones. RTS/PvE Battlegrounds. Island exploration. etc.

Still so shocking that it managed to shit the bed so spectuacularly bad in basically all aspects.

[Wangming]

BfA was definitely my favorite launch. It seemd to have everything I could ever want from an expansion, bar player boats.
It had a naval theme. HvA storylines. Old God undercurrents. Naga. Uban zones. RTS/PvE Battlegrounds. Island exploration. etc.

Still so shocking that it managed to shit the bed so spectuacularly bad in basically all aspects.

Dude Kul'Tiras had amazing zones. Especially Drustvar. The atmosphere was so good. I still don't understand how they managed to fuck up that expansion. They had gold on their hands.

[Skildar]

It's still baffling how much they messed up Torghast lol. It's like someone saw that it had the potential to be a real pillar of the game and they were fearing people wouldn't want to play m+/raids anymore so they completely wracked it but also made it mandatory at the same time.

What I remember was that Torghast was kind of similar to Ashran in the sense that during testing there wasn't a whole lot to do and Torghast was the fun new thing. But realistically nobody would want a challenge that takes you an unlimited amount of time. I don't know many people willing to spend a whole afternoon in this. So they changed it but it became dull but condensed and then tried to incentives people to do it through a currency required to craft legendaries plus a few legendary "recipes".
At launch it wasn't a pain to do Torghast, it became this annoying long challenge that a few specs can destroy in season 2 when they've added the item to unlock max-level soulbind abilities.

[Shadochi]

I enjoyed BfA quite a bit, like my main gripe with expansion is how hard it was to target specific azerite pieces (compared to before where there was just one chest tier piece source per difficulty, or current where any chest piece can be a tier piece), but I felt like with 8.2 and the new azerite abilities in the neck it became more fun,and then 8.3 even more fun with corruptions.
Island expeditions: I enjoyed them and always mention how I would like them to return those islands (zones) with quests on them or something.
Warfronts: mediocre but not bad IMO, just not too much replay value for someone who mostly did raid and dungeons other than transmog. Still was nice to have a reason to update the 2 older zones.
Dungeons and Raids - I had great fun.
World Content: I found it quite enjoyable, especially once 8.2 dropped (but even before then it was fine).
Zones and quests: except the alliance zones having less variety in them design wise, I still liked them very much and the leveling was a nice change of pace after Legion.

[Nymrohd]

BfA had so many features I wish they would carry forward. Island Expeditions had great content with the completely wrong gameplay attached to it. Warfronts were available sporadically, they made no effort to make their gameplay make sense and were only saved by the fact that they were gatekeeping some amazing mogs. Azerite armor was really the only thing that was indefensible trash (with Essences being an amazing system that would have worked great if it was on its own without two other borrowed power systems).
Very decent dungeons though I don't like the difficulty spike from Legion. Solid raids though some of Eternal Palace was problematic (still far better raids than SL and what we got from DF so far).