The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nymrohd]

I think Incarnates are decent for what they are. Decent designs, decent voice acting. They definitely lack on impact. I think the worst part of DF is Alex though. She is just there. She did a few things in the first zone and since then she has been completely useless, oblivious of her surroundings and entirely reactive.

[Wangming]

Iridikron works as long as he doesn't make himself a raid encounter. The moment he immediately makes himself a raid encounter where the ultimate outcome for him is death his entire character crashes and burns.

Care to ellaborate?

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I think Incarnates are decent for what they are. Decent designs, decent voice acting. They definitely lack on impact. I think the worst part of DF is Alex though. She is just there. She did a few things in the first zone and since then she has been completely useless, oblivious of her surroundings and entirely reactive.

Looks and sounds cool shouldn't be the benchmark for a villain. I mean it helps, but that is the bare minimum. I feel that the incarnates only work well comparatively Grey Picard.

[milkmustache]

He's just more of the "you foolish mortals won't ever comprehend my plans" trope blizzard has lazily written with sylvanas, the jailer and now him - it's extremely tired at this point

It's okay to give some characters ambiguous/ mysterious motivations but when the main villain for three expansions in a row is someone who is somehow always more informed than anyone else on screen regardless of whatever develops in the story; it's just lame

I felt like his motivations were pretty straight forward. He resents the Titans and how they influenced life in Azeroth, only to have this amplified by their imprisonment, and now being free he seeks his revenge. It's stated pretty early on that he's the most dangerous out of all of them and he has made dark bargains, which just seems like he's hellbent on revenge, will foolishly play around with powers who are using him as much as he's using them, and will ultimately either fly too close to the sun or become far more dangerous than he is now.

I think some of their storytelling does fall far too deep into macguffins and ambigious methods and tools, like him searching for Aberus and the whole void Dragonsoul thing that he has in the megadungeon. As a character alone, I think he's pretty fun, though. Although that's just my opinion! I see where you're coming from as well.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Care to ellaborate?

I'm not in the mood to elaborate too much, its mostly tied to the fact he knows what the forces know about our characters. Its all depressing as fuck storytelling, I don't want to keep talking about it. But, essentially Iridkron knows that engaging our player characters is fucking stupid and if the writers make him do so it literally betrays his entire character premise from the get-go.

[Nightshade711]

All these new druids forms have me thinking

They really should bring back the saberon model for cat and unlock the other racial moonkin forms like the zandalari and kultiran ones for other races

They absolutely should readd the Saberon model.
Tbh I think they could do something along those lines with Worgen druids too, using their Worgen model.

[doledippers]

What's so memorable about them?

didnt say they were memorable. just was pointing out the majority of the time a character is "memorable" is because its a cameo from WC3. can only reuse those characters so many times.

[Wangming]

I'm not in the mood to elaborate too much, its mostly tied to the fact he knows what the forces know about our characters. Its all depressing as fuck storytelling, I don't want to keep talking about it. But, essentially Iridkron knows that engaging our player characters is fucking stupid and if the writers make him do so it literally betrays his entire character premise from the get-go.

So in essence he is like: "I'm not going to directly fight you cause you would kick my arse"
An understandable and smart stance. Just dangerous for an MMO.

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didnt say they were memorable. just was pointing out the majority of the time a character is "memorable" is because its a cameo from WC3. can only reuse those characters so many times.

Yeah but here's the thing. All the memorable bosses had time and buildup to be memorable. Three out of the four incarnates die in the expansion they were introduces in.

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he doesn't give a fuck about us, what he wants is revenge on the titans and that's fucking interesting!

Is it really?

Perhaps we aren't the same, but: Imma destroy everything related to the Titans cause I hate them is not interesting enough.

[Well Done Steak]

Not really. You should consider that support specs are going to be limited to a very small number of classes. Probably 3-4. If we include Evokers, that leaves 3 classes, and Bloodlust/Heroism is a very powerful support effect.

That said, you could be correct that they wouldn't use that criteria. However, I still believe you're only looking at 3 additional classes getting support. There's also the possibility of Blizzard dropping a new class in 11.0 with a support spec, and then them releasing an additional support spec for another class mid-expansion. This may occur because I don't believe they're going to allow Augmentation to be the only support spec in the game beyond Dragonflight.

I agree there's no way aug will be the only support spec ever.

This means that some classes will be getting a fourth spec for their own support role.

Which also means it opens up the possibility for all current and future classes to eventually have 4 specs to play with. Not saying they all need a support spec. Like shaman getting an earth tank spec or mages a time healing spec.

Key word EVENTUALLY, since people have a hate boner for the balancing nightmare that 4th specs could be. But I believe in blizz and believe that ultimate balance is a pipe dream, so just give us more toys to play with.

[Skildar]

I think Incarnates are decent for what they are. Decent designs, decent voice acting. They definitely lack on impact. I think the worst part of DF is Alex though. She is just there. She did a few things in the first zone and since then she has been completely useless, oblivious of her surroundings and entirely reactive.

I think you're giving Alexstrasza too much credit. I remember her fighting with Razsageth and then getting rescued by Iridikron, then she assumed a catastrophic defensive role.
We know more about why the incarnates fight for than what motivates the aspects to get back their power. Sure they want to defend themselves from the incarnates, but for what crime 20 000 years of imprisonment isn't enough? oO' Why wasn't freeing them a first step when the isles awakened?

[Wangming]

Not really. You should consider that support specs are going to be limited to a very small number of classes. Probably 3-4. If we include Evokers, that leaves 3 classes, and Bloodlust/Heroism is a very powerful support effect.

Really? Are you sure it would be so few classes. I see no reason to assume any class that can heal can't also provide support buffs. So besides Evoker that is Paladin, Druid, Shaman, Monk, Priest. Let's remove Druids cause they already have four specs and it is unlikely one of them will be rebuilt for support.
But if bard becomes a spec for Rogue, that could be support. I see no reason why mages can't use their magics to support others. Hell, even Warlock could empower others with fel magic. I mean ask the orcs if fel buffs you or not.

[Nightshade711]

I agree there's no way aug will be the only support spec ever.

This means that some classes will be getting a fourth spec for their own support role.

Which also means it opens up the possibility for all current and future classes to eventually have 4 specs to play with. Not saying they all need a support spec. Like shaman getting an earth tank spec or mages a time healing spec.

Key word EVENTUALLY, since people have a hate boner for the balancing nightmare that 4th specs could be. But I believe in blizz and believe that ultimate balance is a pipe dream, so just give us more toys to play with.

Tbh the only way I’d see Blizz adding more support specs is if they’re added in new classes or they rework existing specs.

IMO, Enhancement is one that could be a good support spec. There used to be some abilities (mainly PvP) that kind of fit that role, plus windfury totem.

[milkmustache]

Is it really?

Perhaps we aren't the same, but: Imma destroy everything related to the Titans cause I hate them is not interesting enough.

I think it's an interesting route to go for the time being in this newer post WC3 villain era. If everything we understand about the current cultures and world of Azeroth has ties to the Titans, it's a pretty alarming idea to have one character hellbent on uprooting that out of spite.

If he goes the Jailer route of revealing Avaloren and saying "See? I told you! I was trying to help you!!", then I'll agree with you, that sucks. Which is probably where it's heading.

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I think Incarnates are decent for what they are. Decent designs, decent voice acting. They definitely lack on impact. I think the worst part of DF is Alex though. She is just there. She did a few things in the first zone and since then she has been completely useless, oblivious of her surroundings and entirely reactive.

I think the lack of Alex's inclusion in the expansion almost lends towards people thinking there will be a 10.3. I'm just so confused at her absence. Is it a cut plotline, or just a weird decision?

[Nymrohd]

I think the lack of Alex's inclusion in the expansion almost lends towards people thinking there will be a 10.3. I'm just so confused at her absence. Is it a cut plotline, or just a weird decision?

Her entire flight is missing.

[Well Done Steak]

Really? Are you sure it would be so few classes. I see no reason to assume any class that can heal can't also provide support buffs. So besides Evoker that is Paladin, Druid, Shaman, Monk, Priest. Let's remove Druids cause they already have four specs and it is unlikely one of them will be rebuilt for support.
But if bard becomes a spec for Rogue, that could be support. I see no reason why mages can't use their magics to support others. Hell, even Warlock could empower others with fel magic. I mean ask the orcs if fel buffs you or not.

Support works best as dps so I don't see mages, locks, hunters, and rogues getting one.

Since they're all dps they need to get a tank or heals spec. They don't need a 4th dps spec.

Shaman needs a tank spec as earth themed since a shaman earth support spec is too close to aug.

Evoker can get a dot spec with the green and blue flights.

Druids arent getting a 5th

So that leaves us with priest, DH, monk, war, DK, and pally. For the best potential support candidates.

Priest, pally, and monk are the easiest thematically.

DK I guess could bring back blood.dps and empower allies like that.

War could be a commander spec that buffs with banned e and shouts, but I would prefer a gladiator spec.

DH I guess could just buff with fel and shadowmagic.

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Tbh the only way I’d see Blizz adding more support specs is if they’re added in new classes or they rework existing specs.

IMO, Enhancement is one that could be a good support spec. There used to be some abilities (mainly PvP) that kind of fit that role, plus windfury totem.

They specifically said they don't want to drastically change up existing specs as support and they used enh as an example.

So all future support will be new specs / classes.

[Murlocos]

yall keep saying that the villains aren't memorable in DF, and then cite past expansions' villains. How many times do you want the same warcraft 3 characters rehashed. We've killed KT like 4 times already

You're touching on the main issue: the new characters and storylines being introduced are not compelling enough, so WoW has to continually hinge itself on a shrinking base of previous characters and the goodwill that comes with them.

It's not solely a Warcraft 3 thing. Garrosh didn't exist until TBC as a relatively unimportant side character, and he's immensely popular even with how inconsistently he was written. The new characters are just not hitting the same way. Iridikron isn't even being praised much in the moment, it's all contingent on the idea of him doing something later. Right now he's pulled a Sylvanas and left to presumably hype up the next expansion, which.. well, you saw how that went in SL.

[Kiria]

Congrats!

Thank you very much ^_^

To quote Xul from Diablo Immortal: No corpse, not dead.

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Wow, congrats

Thank you

[Wangming]

I think it's an interesting route to go for the time being in this newer post WC3 villain era. If everything we understand about the current cultures and world of Azeroth has ties to the Titans, it's a pretty alarming idea to have one character hellbent on uprooting that out of spite.

Like I said, I'm happy to agree to disagree. This is a subjective matter after all. The void in general is against the titans. Sargeras turned on the titans. Zovaal was against the entire cosmos as a whole. I think the only one who was not particularly anti-titan was the Lich King who wanted to bolster his private army with strong heroes. And Garrosh who was just a firm believer in doing what he was as best for the horde.

This is kinda funny though. The contrast.
Sylvanas right outside Orgrimmar with a whole arse army backing her in defense of the city: The horde is NOTHING!
The spirit of Garrosh after the Horde teamed up with the Alliance to defeat him. Twice: FOR THE HORDE!

[Baraden]

They absolutely should readd the Saberon model.
Tbh I think they could do something along those lines with Worgen druids too, using their Worgen model.

I was literally thinking about that the other day - why can't worgen druids just use their worgen form as feral and use the worgen unarmed animations; it wouldn't be hard to do and would be an amazing spec for actually feeling like a worgen

If blizz really cared about the roleplay and customisation side of WoW, which is arguably the most important aspect these days - this stuff would be added

Though saying this; they still have never allowed us to hide caster weapons or fixed the invisible WoD staff - there's plenty of extremely simple changes they could make that would massively improve player freedom when it comes to expressing your character how you like; those the transmogging white/grey gear was a welcome addition, they need to expand on that more

Realistically transmog should have as few restraints as possible - there's no good argument against this

[milkmustache]

Like I said, I'm happy to agree to disagree. This is a subjective matter after all. The void in general is against the titans. Sargeras turned on the titans. Zovaal was against the entire cosmos as a whole. I think the only one who was not particularly anti-titan was the Lich King who wanted to bolster his private army with strong heroes. And Garrosh who was just a firm believer in doing what he was as best for the horde.

This is kinda funny though. The contrast.
Sylvanas right outside Orgrimmar with a whole arse army backing her in defense of the city: The horde is NOTHING!
The spirit of Garrosh after the Horde teamed up with the Alliance to defeat him. Twice: FOR THE HORDE!

I'll actually agrere there. I think you make great points with all of that. It's interesting how Blizzard seems to want to focus really strongly on the Titans' influence in this new storyline.

That being said, god do I miss Garrosh. I don't even know if I want to call him a villain. It did feel kinda good to have him as Warchief, it created some awesomedifferences between Horde and Alliance culturally.

[Baraden]

I'm betting money Aug will just be a DPS spec in 11.0; support just doesn't work in retail