The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Skildar]

They can tell a good story they just can't nail an ending which is another thing extremely hard to do in long running fantasy. People get headaches over the Legion presence in WoD but before they got involved early on in the expansions life the story was hardcore as hell and fun. Pandaria is very similar lots of strong stories and unique ideas or reinvented ideas. Things like the Shado-Pan and the Iron Horde are really strong. The concept of Bastion in SL is really strong, same as Oribos. BFA presented the culture of Zandalar and Kul'tiras really well but could not tell a worthy Zandalari story to save their lives (I thought they nailed Kul'tiras Campaign though). The Dwarves in Modern WoW are also very interesting the War of Three Hammers was a great concept but in Cataclysm the idea that they merged into a council and were properly communicating again is very traditional but unique to WoW. Ironically the concepts they keep revisiting (Death, Elves, Dreadlords) are what seem to be driving the most aggravation in the community.

Edit: I figured i'd point out what I mean by the endings. Burning Crusade had a great ending (Despite my opinion on the entire expansion), Wrath had a great ending in hindsight...as some may recall it was not loved at the time. Cataclysm had an ending so bad Dragonflight's entire main plot focused on fixing it. Pandaria got some closure in a book but continued into WoD. WoD is the same but continued into Legion. Legion had a phenomenal ending that they ruined with a cliffhanger. BFA had several strong conclusions to factions and characters and then horrendously butchered most of the rest. Shadowlands really didn't have an ending. It never really had a strong story either, very unique concept, but a really flimsy narrative. Dragonflight SO FAR has had no ending but has so far managed to stay very clear of flimsy writing and cliffhanger endings...I guess we will find out at Blizzcon if Iridikron is going to continue his antics or not.

Edit Edit: I have alot of talking I want to do today apparently... I have always been a proponent of leaving expansions in expansions, storywise so we don't get Cataclysm yet throughout the games life cycle outside of a select few stories (Exiles Reach, Forbidden Reach) the stories continue to rely on other narratives to stand up. Shit Dragonflight is basically a direct sequel to Cataclysm.

you're very right on that they often if not always loosing the thread as the expansion is told. And Dragonflight is quite telling of this.

[Wangming]

It's possible, but after those books were found, I'd be surprised if it's not about Eonar hiding Elun'ahir's survival from Aman'Thul. That whole scenario fits several whispers perfectly which seem to indicate that her decision backfires horribly with the Old Gods corrupting the roots.

"Her heart is a crater and we have filled it"- There's now a literal crater representing Eonar's love for Elune, likely corrupted by the Void

"Deeper, deeper its roots will reach. Welcoming our embrace."- self-explanatory

Despite the book portraying Aman-Thul as the zealous bad guy, it seems like he was probably 100% right here.

I mean, those whispers are so vague that they can always come up with something and say that it was totally intentional. But yes, they can be used here very well.

[Redwyrm]

Edit Edit: I have alot of talking I want to do today apparently... I have always been a proponent of leaving expansions in expansions, storywise so we don't get Cataclysm yet throughout the games life cycle outside of a select few stories (Exiles Reach, Forbidden Reach) the stories continue to rely on other narratives to stand up. Shit Dragonflight is basically a direct sequel to Cataclysm.

You know what else doesn't have endings? Treadmills. I hate to simplify WoW like that but that is what WoW has become (or has always been). It's another way to hook the player into coming back and doing the same thing every day/month/year. TV shows do it (the cliffhanger) to keep viewer retention.

Can the stories/plots be better self contained within each expansion? Probably. And it was probably easier to do so when the lore was already established. The Lich King and Deathwing for examples. But once Blizzard started going into unchartered territory they needed more time to setup the next big bad. Unfortunately that also meant that one big bad would sometimes lead into the next big bad (Who is really pulling the strings, etc.).

[Skildar]

Shame as well. Those scenes with Anduin were the best characterization we got out of him. Being so completely done with Sylvanas shit, and not even entertaining her delusion of being a put upon victim.

if only that were true but as Anduin shows maturity then he offers Sylvanas to help her and encourages her to rebel... It started well for the boy only to become embarrassing

[Nerdslime]

I think if we get additional specs, we might get 3-4 support specs and that's it. I'd expect Gladiator as support dps with a shield for Warrior, Bard for Rogue and something for mage. I'd love it if Shaman or Evoker could get an earth magic tank though.

This is what I suspect and also coincidentally what I want. Warrior throwing banners around and issuing roaring calls to battle. I think we'll see Disc priest as a support spec someday too; it needs more to set it apart.

In my perfect world Enhancement shaman becomes a support DPS as well, and Shaman or Evoker get a mail-wearing earth-magic tank spec. Missed opportunity by Blizzard not to have made Evoker tank, heal, support (no pure RDPS) from the get-go, in my opinion. I'd love Evoker or Shaman tank tho - it'd mean we'd see some good beefy mail transmogs for Hunters to steal and it'd give Blizzard a cool opportunity especially for Evoker tanks to get tank-themed staff weapons for transmog as well! Could be neat.

I keep getting sidetracked by my hopes for class re-designs and support integration and Im sorry

[Sondrelk]

Anduin as a character is so strong I think it was the best writing decision they made in a decade to leave him in SL and not included in the story. Its better than killing him and it allows him to be revisted (hopefully not as a villain please) when we inevitably fight some light-aligned foe.

Anduin as a character should be so good, but BfA completely fucked his character.
The version of Anduin we saw in Legion was one of the best characters the game has had in years.
Even if it was just a brief questline, having him grapple with his pacifist ways clashing with an existential threat made for some prime drama.

Hopefully once Anduin returns from wherever we can have the writers give him some actual good storylines. His relationship with the light is absolutely a fruitful well for the story to draw from.

[Paula Deen]

You know what else doesn't have endings? Treadmills. I hate to simplify WoW like that but that is what WoW has become (or has always been). It's another way to hook the player into coming back and doing the same thing every day/month/year. TV shows do it (the cliffhanger) to keep viewer retention.

Can the stories/plots be better self contained within each expansion? Probably. And it was probably easier to do so when the lore was already established. The Lich King and Deathwing for examples. But once Blizzard started going into unchartered territory they needed more time to setup the next big bad. Unfortunately that also meant that one big bad would sometimes lead into the next big bad (Who is really pulling the strings, etc.).

Its lazy. It isn't necessarily bad. I would actually take zero issue with the treadmill as a concept if they did a good job of at least catching people up. ESO is bad about this too, so is Final Fantasy. Guild Wars 2 is a different kind of game though.

ESO had to follow a player made chronological quest order chart for most things it helped WONDERS in making the game enjoyable too.
FFXIV knows the average MMO player is a crack addict and doesn't give the player a choice. They either start from the beginning or they don't play. (Admirable tbh)
WoW is unplayable like ESO. There is no reward besides achievements for doing a chronological run of the game and you can't even properly do a run like that even if you want to BECAUSE of Cataclysm. Some really simple changes could drastically change how confusing WoW is to a new player, instead Blizzard just lazily slaps on Party Sync/Chromie Time for people who probably already played the fucking game and tells New Players to start 5 years back IRL and 12 years into the games entire story with ZERO lore primers or stories. Its inexcusably bad.

[Magistrate]

Ysera is technically already dead and we knew her situation was probably temporary.

I don't think she needs to get killed again. It will probably be more of a passing of the torch moment when they realize they need the overpowered alliance chicken god back.

[Rezzyk]

Was there something related to Wotlk ICC datamined?

I guess promotion might be just tied to opening of ICC, which is big thing for classic players.

Arfus the dog is in both Classic and Retail I believe. It's probably that.

It's undoubtedly the Virtual Ticket going on sale. Typically it goes up a full month before blizzcon so we're behind.
How far before expansions go up do you think they get planned? It's definitely the firing of Afrasiabi in june 2020 if its anything.

I don't think there is going to be a paid Virtual Ticket this year. The previous announcement made it sound like all panels will be streamed free.

We'll be able to buy a BlizzCon bundle of in-game stuff, but yeah.

[Skildar]

This is what I suspect and also coincidentally what I want. Warrior throwing banners around and issuing roaring calls to battle. I think we'll see Disc priest as a support spec someday too; it needs more to set it apart.

In my perfect world Enhancement shaman becomes a support DPS as well, and Shaman or Evoker get a mail-wearing earth-magic tank spec. Missed opportunity by Blizzard not to have made Evoker tank, heal, support (no pure RDPS) from the get-go, in my opinion. I'd love Evoker or Shaman tank tho - it'd mean we'd see some good beefy mail transmogs for Hunters to steal and it'd give Blizzard a cool opportunity especially for Evoker tanks to get tank-themed staff weapons for transmog as well! Could be neat.

I keep getting sidetracked by my hopes for class re-designs and support integration and Im sorry

They've finally managed to bring back enhancement shamans to a good place, as they've stated they will not alter their role (and they shouldn't).
I don't want another support spec in the game for now, it would be very cumbersome to manage balancing and they are still figuring it out with just augmentation evoker. (cf. their many changes in 10.2)

There are already a good amount of tanks and healers in the game, I'm not opposed to more. I would put in my top priorities new mechanics for tanks that would make them more entertaining to play and less a I need to perfect the route of the dungeon and not fall asleep when doing raid boss fights

[Paula Deen]

Arfus the dog is in both Classic and Retail I believe. It's probably that.

They already confirmed how Arfus is obtainable. I don't think its that.
LK = Dungeons
Retail = Hallows End

[Teriz]

Since 4th specs are pretty much a given at this point since we will be getting more support specs, what 4th specs can we expect over the course of 11.0?

More than likely the only classes getting support specs are the “Bloodlust/Heroism” classes. That would be Mage, Shaman, and Hunters. Evokers were the 4th class to get Bloodlust/heroism buff.

[Wangming]

Its lazy. It isn't necessarily bad. I would actually take zero issue with the treadmill as a concept if they did a good job of at least catching people up. ESO is bad about this too, so is Final Fantasy. Guild Wars 2 is a different kind of game though.

ESO had to follow a player made chronological quest order chart for most things it helped WONDERS in making the game enjoyable too.
FFXIV knows the average MMO player is a crack addict and doesn't give the player a choice. They either start from the beginning or they don't play. (Admirable tbh)
WoW is unplayable like ESO. There is no reward besides achievements for doing a chronological run of the game and you can't even properly do a run like that even if you want to BECAUSE of Cataclysm. Some really simple changes could drastically change how confusing WoW is to a new player, instead Blizzard just lazily slaps on Party Sync/Chromie Time for people who probably already played the fucking game and tells New Players to start 5 years back IRL and 12 years into the games entire story with ZERO lore primers or stories. Its inexcusably bad.

Can't comment on ESO or GW2 as I haven't gotten that far in either.
In FFXIV at least they establish very early on the Ascians this shadowy cult that likes to run the show from behind the scenes. And they remained the actual big bads until....well the mid point of Endwalker really. And the new threat was set up in Shadowbringers.
For SWTOR for most of its run the big bad was Vitiate.
As for WoW....can you even do a semi full run without chromie time or you absolutely need it for the starting points of each expansion?

[Zers Editor]

Despite the book portraying Aman-Thul as the zealous bad guy, it seems like he was probably 100% right here.

I mean, the book itself says that the details of this legend vary, so it's a lot more likely that this is a Life-biased version.

[Nymrohd]

I think at this point its pretty well established that the worst cinematics in Modern WoW have the best gameplay. MoP and Dragonflight both have boring as hell Cinematics but killer gameplay...obviously Legion is the exception. Possibly WoD too because it just didnt have enough...what was there was fun.

Eh, Garrosh vs Taran Zhu is excellent. The Thunder King patch trailer was amazing.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

Arfus the dog is in both Classic and Retail I believe. It's probably that.

From user called "Blizzlee" wowhead comment
"They just updated the BlizzCon 2023 playlist on YouTube. The hidden video in the playlist is more than likely the BlizzCon Collection bundle advertisement for Thursday's promotion."
https://i.imgur.com/Hl23gAL.png

[Paula Deen]

Can't comment on ESO or GW2 as I haven't gotten that far in either.
In FFXIV at least they establish very early on the Ascians this shadowy cult that likes to run the show from behind the scenes. And they remained the actual big bads until....well the mid point of Endwalker really. And the new threat was set up in Shadowbringers.

Guild Wars 2, atleast the last time I played it, had a very well thought out interface for replaying older content to allow you to refresh yourself or enjoy it if you were not around for it. It was, as I recall, and it has been some years, robust enough that you could without using an external source gauge a chronological order. I think ESO could improve but its main point and design is around the questing and visiting and doing all the things, unlike WoW, so its acceptable how it is handled. I think FFXIV, what little i did play, did it well enough.

For SWTOR for most of its run the big bad was Vitiate.

I can't fully speak to this as I have not played it but from what I have heard SWTORs bigger issue is that it allows you to play as things like Soldiers and Bounty Hunters then eventually just fucks off including them in anything and expects even those characters to be sitting on Thrones as rulers...which is bonkers in a world where Vitiate exists LMAO.

As for WoW....can you even do a semi full run without chromie time or you absolutely need it for the starting points of each expansion?

So I leveled from scratch no heirlooms or buffs right before 10.0 came out. I did a Dwarf Monk. In order to get a cohesive story I had to do it in 'Mega Zone' format. I leveled him through all of Khaz Modan and SL. It was honestly extremely close to being the perfect amount of EXP, I only did the dungeons present in those zones too.

Eh, Garrosh vs Taran Zhu is excellent. The Thunder King patch trailer was amazing.

I specifically meant launch cinematics. Without very rare exception pretty much every patch cinematic has been well received.

[Reive]

I think at this point its pretty well established that the worst cinematics in Modern WoW have the best gameplay. MoP and Dragonflight both have boring as hell Cinematics but killer gameplay...obviously Legion is the exception. Possibly WoD too because it just didnt have enough...what was there was fun.

yeah no lol mop mogs dragonflight in both cinematics and gameplay

[Wangming]

Eh, Garrosh vs Taran Zhu is excellent. The Thunder King patch trailer was amazing.

She was referring to the opening CGI cinematic. I still don't agree though, but that's a different matter.

[Ersula]

Despite the book portraying Aman-Thul as the zealous bad guy, it seems like he was probably 100% right here.

Without the world trees Archimonde would have won the third war.