1. #26641
    Quote Originally Posted by Paula Deen View Post
    Its lazy. It isn't necessarily bad. [snip]
    Agreed. Unfortunately WoW is trying to cater to a few distinct groups of players. And after 19+ years of game lore it's tough to balance the goals of each group and leave each satisfied. Blizzard got scared when the player levels reached over 100. It's a daunting number for new players. And if you are buying the game for the first time you don't want to be stuck killing boars in Elwynn Forest when you were promised on the box to be in Dragonflight or whatever the last expansion happens to be. So, Blizzard condensed the leveling several times. But this makes it difficult and confusing for new players who are playing for the great questlines and lore still available in every part of Azeroth. I wonder how many players will never experience the Linken quest in Un'goro. Or the Pamela Redpath quest chain in Eastern Plaguelands.

    I almost wish Blizzard would introduce a highlight reel of great quests on the Boards in the capital cities. They would go in order based on old level requirements of the greatest quest chains that shouldn't be missed. Mobs and equipment scaled to your level. You could string them together. Once you complete a quest chain you are ported back to the capital city to pick up the next in the list (or hit a "play all" button and get ported from one quest chain to the next as you complete them).

  2. #26642
    "Why do we fight? To protect Home, and Family... To preserve Balance, and bring Harmony
    For my kind, the true question is: What is worth fighting for?"

    vs

    random dialogue and stony tony

  3. #26643
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paula Deen View Post
    Guild Wars 2, atleast the last time I played it, had a very well thought out interface for replaying older content to allow you to refresh yourself or enjoy it if you were not around for it. It was, as I recall, and it has been some years, robust enough that you could without using an external source gauge a chronological order. I think ESO could improve but its main point and design is around the questing and visiting and doing all the things, unlike WoW, so its acceptable how it is handled. I think FFXIV, what little i did play, did it well enough.

    Oh FFIXV has New Game+ where you can replay the older main scenario. No XP or reward, but if you need a refresher you can do that.

    I can't fully speak to this as I have not played it but from what I have heard SWTORs bigger issue is that it allows you to play as things like Soldiers and Bounty Hunters then eventually just fucks off including them in anything and expects even those characters to be sitting on Thrones as rulers...which is bonkers in a world where Vitiate exists LMAO.

    Indeed that is true. For the leveling experience you have class stories. After that not so much. And in KOTFE and KOTET it doesn't even matter if you are Empire or Republic. That's fucking terrible. But it doesn't have the specific problem of power creep from ever stronger mystery villains. At least.

    So I leveled from scratch no heirlooms or buffs right before 10.0 came out. I did a Dwarf Monk. In order to get a cohesive story I had to do it in 'Mega Zone' format. I leveled him through all of Khaz Modan and SL. It was honestly extremely close to being the perfect amount of EXP, I only did the dungeons present in those zones too.
    What I meant with the last point is that you can't just fore example fly to the Broken Isles and start the Legion story, can you? You have to chromie and pick up the starting quest in your capital, right? Or am I dumb?

  4. #26644
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldryth View Post
    It's possible, but after those books were found, I'd be surprised if it's not about Eonar hiding Elun'ahir's survival from Aman'Thul. That whole scenario fits several whispers perfectly which seem to indicate that her decision backfires horribly with the Old Gods corrupting the roots.

    "Her heart is a crater and we have filled it"- There's now a literal crater representing Eonar's love for Elune, likely corrupted by the Void

    "Deeper, deeper its roots will reach. Welcoming our embrace."- self-explanatory

    Despite the book portraying Aman-Thul as the zealous bad guy, it seems like he was probably 100% right here.
    Damn, I love this interpretation!

  5. #26645
    Quote Originally Posted by Zebir95 View Post
    "Why do we fight? To protect Home, and Family... To preserve Balance, and bring Harmony
    For my kind, the true question is: What is worth fighting for?"

    vs

    random dialogue and stony tony
    In context, I do fully respect both cinematics and love them even, more than Legion and BFA and SL, but that is a bit disingenuous as a characterization of either?

    Panda Man says philosophical quote while random Orc and Human Fight

    vs

    Dragon narrates her return to her home over Random Stone Man climbing molten rock tower

    Both have very similar basis in style and substance when you try really hard to minimize the impact of characterization of those present.

  6. #26646
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zebir95 View Post
    "Why do we fight? To protect Home, and Family... To preserve Balance, and bring Harmony
    For my kind, the true question is: What is worth fighting for?"

    vs

    random dialogue and stony tony
    Plus it was literally an orc fighting a human. Literally WarCraft: Orcs vs Humans.
    Until a famous WCIII character came. So yeah. It was very warcraft and had both naval and melee combat.

  7. #26647
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldryth View Post
    Despite the book portraying Aman-Thul as the zealous bad guy, it seems like he was probably 100% right here.

    Was he thought?
    As i see it, its his own fault.

    They could've very well enacted some order over the tree, containing and maintaining it the same way they do the dream.
    Instead he went out of his way to hurt Azeroth (again, this time deliberately), breaking the trust of a fellow titan and leaving the planet with an open backdoor for any power to crawl in and corrupt.

    And all because he got angry.
    Last edited by Raetary; 2023-10-09 at 07:26 PM.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  8. #26648
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    What I meant with the last point is that you can't just fore example fly to the Broken Isles and start the Legion story, can you? You have to chromie and pick up the starting quest in your capital, right? Or am I dumb?
    Oh no. You cannot. You have to start Chromie Time to even get anything to scale. I get you.

  9. #26649
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Anduin as a character should be so good, but BfA completely fucked his character.
    The version of Anduin we saw in Legion was one of the best characters the game has had in years.
    Even if it was just a brief questline, having him grapple with his pacifist ways clashing with an existential threat made for some prime drama.

    Hopefully once Anduin returns from wherever we can have the writers give him some actual good storylines. His relationship with the light is absolutely a fruitful well for the story to draw from.
    The problem that WoW's always suffered from is that those clash of ideals and strong personalities is what's made the best characters interesting, but then the problems get completely resolved and the strife that made for good storytelling is gone.

    Anduin's at his best when he, an agent of compromise, is up against someone with an unbending will and less scrupulous morality. The problem is that now Anduin is just good at everything and his flaws don't really matter because Jaina and Genn and Shaw and whoever else will cover for them.

    Credit where it's due since I've been negative lately, I think the concept of a human/Stormwind storyline around fighting the corruption of the nobility they hinted at in the heritage epilogue has so much potential if they chose to fully explore it. It's the perfect place to make Anduin interesting again: an environment where he has to contend with duplicitous politicians that have decades more experience than him working the system that would be more than eager to abuse his goodwill. It's a narrative layup for a storyline that can't just be resolved by the player's crew of faction leader friends going around personally interrogating and beating everyone evil up.

    But that relies on them being willing to show Anduin as flawed and not just the perfect leader from the outset.

  10. #26650
    The Lightbringer Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    the same way Darian wasn’t the weirder of the ashbringer in classic, the game lets you have it but when it comes to the actual canon you never did and it was her getting it instead.

    I haven’t done every SL quest on multiple characters but I don’t believe they ever mention a death lord unless you are a DK and in that case you are just taking the place for gameplay purposes just like with the ashbringer.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Could you link said interview then?
    No? It was some random interview, and I know what I read. If you doubt me try to use google lol.

  11. #26651
    Quote Originally Posted by Murlocos View Post
    The problem that WoW's always suffered from is that those clash of ideals and strong personalities is what's made the best characters interesting, but then the problems get completely resolved and the strife that made for good storytelling is gone.

    Anduin's at his best when he, an agent of compromise, is up against someone with an unbending will and less scrupulous morality. The problem is that now Anduin is just good at everything and his flaws don't really matter because Jaina and Genn and Shaw and whoever else will cover for them.
    I actually think Anduin's main strength isn't even his character, its super generic lmao. Its his character progression. He moved up as we players did which is really unique in WoW....he and Thrall seem to be the only two characters that actually age.

  12. #26652
    Brewmaster flan1337's Avatar
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    not sure if mentioned but:

    https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com...october-9-2023

    This week in wow got buried with the wrath classic stuff.
    October 10
    >(Event) Wrath Classic: Fall of the Lich King Goes Live
    >(Event) Dragonflight Dungeon Bonus Event
    >(Event) PvP Brawl: Temple of Hotmogu
    >(Event) Turbulent Timeways: Legion Timewalking
    October 12
    >(Event) Wrath Classic: Icecrown Citadel Opens
    >(Promotion) New Promotion
    October 13
    >(Article) Blues News
    October 14
    >(Event) The Great Gnomeregan Run

    Nothing really jumping out but the new promotion is interesting I guess but most likely a wrath classic event.

  13. #26653
    Quote Originally Posted by flan1337 View Post
    Nothing really jumping out but the new promotion is interesting I guess
    Yeah few ideas so far;
    Arfus
    Virtual Tickets/Blizzcon Goods

  14. #26654
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    They are really taking their sweet sweet time with the Blizzcon package.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  15. #26655
    Quote Originally Posted by Paula Deen View Post
    Yeah few ideas so far;
    Arfus
    Virtual Tickets/Blizzcon Goods
    it's probably blizzcon goods because blizzcon playlist got updated on youtube.

    https://i.imgur.com/Hl23gAL.png

  16. #26656
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    They are really taking their sweet sweet time with the Blizzcon package.
    Its because they want more people to buy tickets because clearly no one is buying them.

  17. #26657
    Quote Originally Posted by Paula Deen View Post
    I actually think Anduin's main strength isn't even his character, its super generic lmao. Its his character progression. He moved up as we players did which is really unique in WoW....he and Thrall seem to be the only two characters that actually age.
    That's more or less what I'm getting at as well. Seeing Anduin grow and face genuine challenge that's suited to his character is what made so many people become attached to him. Having him become another static character that's not very distinguishable from the others is a downgrade. The onus is on the writers to create new dilemmas and problems for the characters and races to face that resonate with their unique stories and characteristics. Otherwise you are on a fast track to the only conflict being united Azeroth vs. cosmic absolutism on loop until end of service.

  18. #26658
    Quote Originally Posted by Paula Deen View Post
    In context, I do fully respect both cinematics and love them even, more than Legion and BFA and SL, but that is a bit disingenuous as a characterization of either?

    Panda Man says philosophical quote while random Orc and Human Fight

    vs

    Dragon narrates her return to her home over Random Stone Man climbing molten rock tower

    Both have very similar basis in style and substance when you try really hard to minimize the impact of characterization of those present.
    yeah no. wow cinematics always had 2 things: cool lines and/or cool scenes. the dragonflight cinematic had neither. also, as someone said the mop cinematic not only had better dialogue but also had human vs orcs, which is warcraft at its core. There were better ways to introduce the dragon isles and dragonflight in general than dedicating most of the cinematic to some random npc

  19. #26659
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Was he thought?
    As i see it, its his own fault.

    They could've very well enacted some order over the tree, containing and maintaining it the same way they do the dream.
    Instead he went out of his way to hurt Azeroth (again, this time deliberately), breaking the trust of a fellow titan and leaving the planet with an open backdoor for any power to crawl in and corrupt.

    And all because he got angry.
    Tbf, weve seen with Vordrassil what an imprisoned OG can do with even a "mere" Nordrassil-off-shoot world tree.

    This tree (like Nordrassil itself) came directly from G'Hanir, and Eonar chose to plant it while the war against the Black Empire was still in full force, and all OGs were still free and kicking. If one of them got even a single tentacle on that thing, that couldve been potentially disastrous for the titan-forged and the entire war.

    It was just incredibly stupid of her to plant that thing during a world-spanning war against an enemy whos entire thing is that they corrupt whatever they can get their hands on.
    The crooked shitposter with no eyes is watching from the endless thread.

    From the space that is everywhere and nowhere, the crooked shitposter feasts on memes.

    He has no eyes to see, but he dreams of infinite memeing and trolling.

  20. #26660
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paula Deen View Post
    Oh no. You cannot. You have to start Chromie Time to even get anything to scale. I get you.
    That's nice. Cause I wanted to suggest this very thing yesterday and I was dismissed as a didingenuos FF fan who lies about WoW for fun.
    Their argument was that having old zones in classic is not good enough cause you can't experience it all on one character. As if that happened to you in retail.

    WoW is literally carrying the corpses of past versions just in case somebody wants to relive the good old days.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Houle View Post
    Tbf, weve seen with Vordrassil what an imprisoned OG can do with even a "mere" Nordrassil-off-shoot world tree.

    This tree (like Nordrassil itself) came directly from G'Hanir, and Eonar chose to plant it while the war against the Black Empire was still in full force, and all OGs were still free and kicking. If one of them got even a single tentacle on that thing, that couldve been potentially disastrous for the titan-forged and the entire war.

    It was just incredibly stupid of her to plant that thing during a world-spanning war against an enemy whos entire thing is that they corrupt whatever they can get their hands on.
    To play the devil's advocate we don't know how long it took to corrupt Vordrassil. And a huge pillar that radiates life and titan blessing might not be a bad thing against the Empire.

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