The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nyel]

Vanilla: Kel'Thuzad
TBC: Kil'Jaeden
Wrath: Arthas
Cata: Deathwing
Mop: Garrosh
WoD: Archimonde
Legion: Argus
BfA: N'Zoth
SL: Zovaal
Dragonflight: Fyrakk

Yeah most expansions understood the assignment.

Shadowlands at least had some iconic characters as bosses like Kel'Thuzad, Sylvanas and Anduin. At least we knew them before and they were memorable. But Dragonflight? We have a random Grimtotem in Vault, Echo of Neltharion in Abberus and Smolderon in Amirdrassil - these are the most known characters in all of the DF raids. Like... honestly? The Incarnates fail as major threats as much as Zovaal because we didn't know about them before their expansion. There's neither tension nor interest and Blizzard failed again to build any of that during the respective expansion. That's why Iridikron being the new "Gul'dan" is a good thing and leaves something to expect for the next expansion.

[Wangming]

When ever some one mention this, I see this semi femenine guy in front of me, jumping around with hes flutes and a bunch of rats behind him.

Idk, the whole thing sounds really lame to me.. barb. :s

Well, the citizens of Hamelin also thought that mental picture was funny.

Until it wasn't.

[Makorus]

Shadowlands at least had some iconic characters as bosses like Kel'Thuzad, Sylvanas and Anduin. At least we knew them before and they were memorable. But Dragonflight? We have a random Grimtotem in Vault, Echo of Neltharion in Abberus and Smolderon in Amirdrassil - these are the most known characters in all of the DF raids. Like... honestly?

Does every raid need to bring back some random obscure character from WC3 to be good?

All villains from DF have been alright (Raszageth is probably the worst, to be fair, but then again you get the least of her).

[Wangming]

Shadowlands at least had some iconic characters as bosses like Kel'Thuzad, Sylvanas and Anduin. At least we knew them before and they were memorable. But Dragonflight? We have a random Grimtotem in Vault, Echo of Neltharion in Abberus and Smolderon in Amirdrassil - these are the most known characters in all of the DF raids. Like... honestly? The Incarnates fail as major threats as much as Zovaal because we didn't know about them before their expansion. There's neither tension nor interest and Blizzard failed again to build any of that during the respective expansion. That's why Iridikron being the new "Gul'dan" is a good thing and leaves something to expect for the next expansion.

Oh for sure. I mean Argus was also an asspull, but we fought many characters that we have known for years now.
I just listed the end bosses of the expansions.
Also regardless of anything else about Zovaal, it was pretty clear during BgA that Sylvanas had a boss who pumped up her death magic. We just couldn't give a face and name to that unknown entity. Nothing suggested the Incarnates existed before DF.

[Nyel]

Does every raid need to bring back some random obscure character from WC3 to be good?

All villains from DF have been alright (Raszageth is probably the worst, to be fair, but then again you get the least of her).

No, absolutely not. The bosses you face - at least the endbosses - should be well-known and interesting though. And in Dragonflight, neither the normal nor the final bosses are remotely interesting. And that's the problem: being alright three times in a row is not enough. There's no climax. Dragonflight's raids / raid bosses started flat and then just stayed flat.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

I think that’s DF in a nutshell. It’s a fine expansion. For the most part it’s fun, but it’s average. It’s not stand out. None of the 5 man dungeons have been standouts either except for MAYBE Algethar (in my opinion).

It think as a base for gameplay, talents and gearing, world quests being fun again, crafting, more variety in transmogs via trading post, bringing finally some long requested transmogs to the loot table like gorehowl and now in 10.2 ravencrest sword for example.. dragonflight is really doing a good job with that.

I mostly do normal raids, i don't m+, im focusing on open world stuff - The open world stuff like i mentioned in my other comment is super boring this expansion and i love invasion like events when it's not overdone and doesn't feel like every event almost feels the same in a way.

But it's like you said nothing really stands out or does impact on me when it comes to overall feeling and atmosphere of this expansion, hardly anything that will actually make me think back of DF besides the fact that it just happened, i won't come back to watching the cutscenes or cinematics etc to hype myself up, because there's nothing that will do it so far..

The 2 things i will remember from actual new content so far are - Forbidden reach when it started with rare hunting and megadungeon, but these are always great.


Overall i think that there's nothing gigantic and very creative, longlasting feature in DF that would justify it not having 10.3 and i don't really care about the size of zones.

[Makorus]

No, absolutely not. The bosses you face - at least the endbosses - should be well-known and interesting though. And in Dragonflight, neither the normal nor the final bosses are remotely interesting. And that's the problem: being alright three times in a row is not enough. There's no climax. Dragonflight's raids / raid bosses started flat and then just stayed flat.

idk. I think Fyrakk is an interesting enough villain. Is he a Garrosh-level endboss? Absolutely not.

Certainly more build up than something like Kil'jaeden in TBC who was the definition of "Oh, I remember him!" with no actual substance

[Murlocos]

I'd sooner expect expansions having x.2 as the final major patch to be the new norm rather than it signaling something huge for 11.0.

An earlier release doesn't do me any good when they're still asking me to pay $50 per expansion. Hell, that $50 used to include a level boost and now it doesn't.

[Wangming]

idk. I think Fyrakk is an interesting enough villain. Is he a Garrosh-level endboss? Absolutely not.

Certainly more build up than something like Kil'jaeden in TBC who was the definition of "Oh, I remember him!" with no actual substance

Yes, TBC had a problem of hyping up Illdian as a poster child then killing him off in the first patch. After that we had a Troll detour and after that it was Kael back with Kil'Jaeden. Not much buildup in the expansion itself.
But we have to consider two things.
1. KJ had plenty of buildup in TFT
2. It was the very first expansion, so things are bound to be a bit undercooked. But the ninth expansion has no such excuse.

[Teriz]

I’d also like a Tinker at some point but I feel like it’ll only show up when we see Undermine.

There’s a chance we’ll see Undermine in 11.0, so who knows?

[Santandame]

Vanilla: Kel'Thuzad
TBC: Kil'Jaeden
Wrath: Arthas
Cata: Deathwing
Mop: Garrosh
WoD: Archimonde
Legion: Argus
BfA: N'Zoth
SL: Zovaal
Dragonflight: Fyrakk

Yeah most expansions understood the assignment.

I think Fyrakk is a brilliantly entertaining villain but you look at that list and up until SL, it really does put things into perspective and makes DF seem underwhelming. At least Zovaal had all the credentials retroactively added to his resume despite being a poor character.

[Sondrelk]

I'd sooner expect expansions having x.2 as the final major patch to be the new norm rather than it signaling something huge for 11.0.

An earlier release doesn't do me any good when they're still asking me to pay $50 per expansion. Hell, that $50 used to include a level boost and now it doesn't.

The touch point in that thinking is that it will massive impact release schedules.
Currently we have the very reasonable cycle of 3-4 months for first major patch, then 6 months between major ones after that. Leaving a large drought after the final patch for a 2-year expansion cycle.

Which of these factors will have to give for only two major patches I wonder. Will we have one and a half year expansion cycles? Or will we have longer droughts between each major patch to compensate?

[Nyel]

idk. I think Fyrakk is an interesting enough villain. Is he a Garrosh-level endboss? Absolutely not.

Certainly more build up than something like Kil'jaeden in TBC who was the definition of "Oh, I remember him!" with no actual substance

I mean everybody back then and now agrees that Kil'jaeden was pretty much an asspull, but it's undeniable that bosses like Vashj, Kael'thas and nothing short of Illidan were outright iconic back then. Even Karazhan where we just fought a copy of Medivh was epic. Each expansion had at least a little of that, some expansions a lot more than others. Dragonflight though... it just never happened. I mean the Incarnates are alright bosses and they're not uninteresting, but they lack the oomph and the clout to feel like what Blizzard tried to achieve with them. They're just flat, but that might be more of a personal take here, others might find them interesting. But I think we can agree on that Dragonflight simply lacks a villain that leaves a lasting impression and doesn't just feel like raid boss fast food.

[Makorus]

I mean everybody back then and now agrees that Kil'jaeden was pretty much an asspull, but it's undeniable that bosses like Vashj, Kael'thas and nothing short of Illidan were outright iconic back then. Even Karazhan where we just fought a copy of Medivh was epic. Each expansion had at least a little of that, some expansions a lot more than others. Dragonflight though... it just never happened. I mean the Incarnates are alright bosses and they're not uninteresting, but they lack the oomph and the clout to feel like what Blizzard tried to achieve with them. They're just flat, but that might be more of a personal take here, others might find them interesting. But I think we can agree on that Dragonflight simply lacks a villain that leaves a lasting impression and doesn't just feel like raid boss fast food.

Sure, but at some point you run out of characters from WC3. That's my whole point. Blizzard has been using WC3 as a crutch in lieu of actually making interesting character.

You can only recycle Illidan or Vashj so much. Iridikron was a good start. Fyrakk was alright. Sarkareth was an amazing character that was just bogged down by being very splintered and only really talked about in the sidest of side quests (that were maybe only for Evokers?)

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I'd sooner expect expansions having x.2 as the final major patch to be the new norm rather than it signaling something huge for 11.0.

An earlier release doesn't do me any good when they're still asking me to pay $50 per expansion. Hell, that $50 used to include a level boost and now it doesn't.

To be fair this is why I just can't get over this Blizzcon if they are going to drop both of these news items at the same time.

I mean then again this is Blizzard PR & Marketing Team and suits, so maybe they are just going to try and get rid of everyone who aren't a true believer anymore. I feel like this is beyond insane tbh.

The touch point in that thinking is that it will massive impact release schedules.
Currently we have the very reasonable cycle of 3-4 months for first major patch, then 6 months between major ones after that. Leaving a large drought after the final patch for a 2-year expansion cycle.

Which of these factors will have to give for only two major patches I wonder. Will we have one and a half year expansion cycles? Or will we have longer droughts between each major patch to compensate?

The Narrative Team also struggles excessively at being competent in these timeframes as is with the 3 Major Patch structure. We can't deny its been worse with the 2 Major Patch structure.

As much as people bitch about how Narrative doesn't matter if the narratives always fail core marketing wise satisfying the common denominator then you've got a problem, jack.

[Magistrate]

It looks like druids will get full cusotmization for all of their forms, not just the moonkin form. They added "full transformation" in front of all of the existing forms. That's insane. The updated moonkin customization is more than almost any playable race gets.

[Santandame]

Sure, but at some point you run out of characters from WC3. That's my whole point. Blizzard has been using WC3 as a crutch in lieu of actually making interesting character.

You can only recycle Illidan or Vashj so much. Iridikron was a good start. Fyrakk was alright. Sarkareth was an amazing character that was just bogged down by being very splintered and only really talked about in the sidest of side quests (that were maybe only for Evokers?)

The Sundered Flame really came out of nowhere as a villainous faction if you hadn’t played the Evoker starting zone, and even then Sarkareth didn’t give off the vibe that they’d be villains, just that they wouldn’t be subservient to the Aspects.

I think they probably should have been seeded in the Waking Shores as a reluctant ally against the Djaradin whilst we learn more about them and spend time with Sarkareth as story character before something kicks off resulting in their betrayal.

[Delever]

Dwarf looking ogres?

I mean... it looks believable enough. But I dont understand why the dwarves are pictured in art whereas the "Agg'ora" use an in game screenshot. Remember that Bastion was leaked as a zone in a very similar manner and no one believed it.

[Santandame]

When ever some one mention this, I see this semi femenine guy in front of me, jumping around with hes flutes and a bunch of rats behind him.

Idk, the whole thing sounds really lame to me.. barb. :s

It doesn’t have to be anything like that though, that’s just a cartoonish perspective on them.

https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/bard

The above sums it up a lot better than I could. They’re a class archetype in many other games too and they’re often depicted as smooth talking scoundrels, sometimes thieves and assassins so they fit perfectly as a rogue spec though I’d love to see them as a class.

There are notable Bard’s in several video games that aren’t depicted as lame; the Dragon Age series in particular with characters like Leilana and Varric. Then you have the Vox Machina animation which is granted, a dark fantasy comedy, but it showcases perfectly how a Bard class strengthens and supports a group of martial adventurers.

[Murlocos]

The touch point in that thinking is that it will massive impact release schedules.
Currently we have the very reasonable cycle of 3-4 months for first major patch, then 6 months between major ones after that. Leaving a large drought after the final patch for a 2-year expansion cycle.

Which of these factors will have to give for only two major patches I wonder. Will we have one and a half year expansion cycles? Or will we have longer droughts between each major patch to compensate?

That depends on how valuable they think Fated patches are. It's entirely possible 10.3 exists.. as Fated raids, Fatesurged Dreamsurge world quests, and 2 hours of story quests. If they try spinning it like that, then they'll likely be using it as justification for a later expansion release.

I just don't see the point in believing that something huge is coming because the prior expansion was cut short. WoD is the only instance of that, and its post-launch offerings were pitiful compared to SL and DF; I'd place 6.1 somewhere between 10.0.5 and 10.1.7 in terms of meatiness. There's been no real ramp up of content quantity or quality in DF to believe it. The biggest improvement I've seen has been in the amount of new gear created (art-wise).