The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Wangming]

Sure, but at some point you run out of characters from WC3. That's my whole point. Blizzard has been using WC3 as a crutch in lieu of actually making interesting character.

You can only recycle Illidan or Vashj so much. Iridikron was a good start. Fyrakk was alright. Sarkareth was an amazing character that was just bogged down by being very splintered and only really talked about in the sidest of side quests (that were maybe only for Evokers?)

I think Nyel would agree with that. Problem is, the Incarnates didn't have the time to grow into well-established villains before being killed off.
Garrosh wasn't a WC3 character either, but he was introduced in TBC, fought as an end boss in MoP and killed off in WoD, before getting an epilogue in SL.

[Murlocos]

The Narrative Team also struggles excessively at being competent in these timeframes as is with the 3 Major Patch structure. We can't deny its been worse with the 2 Major Patch structure.

As much as people bitch about how Narrative doesn't matter if the narratives always fail core marketing wise satisfying the common denominator then you've got a problem, jack.

Absolutely. I'm not going to completely blame them because the narrative team is going to have far less say on how an expansion's content cycle is handled than most of the other teams, but you ultimately need to work with what you're given. The slow burn, "watch me slowly slide this puzzle piece into place" speculationbait format that we've done three expansions in a row now doesn't work if you're building up to a rushed dud of an ending.

[Nyel]

To be fair this is why I just can't get over this Blizzcon if they are going to drop both of these news items at the same time.

I mean then again this is Blizzard PR & Marketing Team and suits, so maybe they are just going to try and get rid of everyone who aren't a true believer anymore. I feel like this is beyond insane tbh.



The Narrative Team also struggles excessively at being competent in these timeframes as is with the 3 Major Patch structure. We can't deny its been worse with the 2 Major Patch structure.

As much as people bitch about how Narrative doesn't matter if the narratives always fail core marketing wise satisfying the common denominator then you've got a problem, jack.

I think it would tremendously help when they stick to one major storyline and just entirely scrap the side raid / patch altogether.

[Makorus]

I think it would tremendously help when they stick to one major storyline and just entirely scrap the side raid / patch altogether.

Yeah, the whole "hahaha aberrus was just a distraction" thing just feels like complete ass with there only being three raids.

[Sondrelk]

That depends on how valuable they think Fated patches are. It's entirely possible 10.3 exists.. as Fated raids, Fatesurged Dreamsurge world quests, and 2 hours of story quests. If they try spinning it like that, then they'll likely be using it as justification for a later expansion release.

I just don't see the point in believing that something huge is coming because the prior expansion was cut short. WoD is the only instance of that, and its post-launch offerings were pitiful compared to SL and DF; I'd place 6.1 somewhere between 10.0.5 and 10.1.7 in terms of meatiness. There's been no real ramp up of content quantity or quality in DF to believe it. The biggest improvement I've seen has been in the amount of new gear created (art-wise).

Certainly if they put more effort into Fated raids with their own unique rewards and what not I could see it working.
Currently though Fated Seasons are an alright fix for post expansion drought. Not a fully fleshed season of content.

More content for fated seasons, and way more effort into Time walking and I think you might be onto something. But currently it would just feel cheap from the developers to have what would be over half a year of Fated Raids in lieu of something new.

[Santandame]

I think Nyel would agree with that. Problem is, the Incarnates didn't have the time to grow into well-established villains before being killed off.
Garrosh wasn't a WC3 character either, but he was introduced in TBC, fought as an end boss in MoP and killed off in WoD, before getting an epilogue in SL.

Same with N’Zoth. He was seeded in Cata, received subtle development in MoP, more blatant development in Legion, then finally getting a truck ton more in BfA before he was utilised as the final boss - and even then it’s likely he returns. Xal’atath is another similar character being given ample development across expansions; and when the day comes that she caps off an expansion as an end boss it won’t feel underwhelming.

Honestly, I’d have kept Fyrakk around longer than DF. He’s a great character. We could have fought him in Aberrus and he could have been banished to the Firelands and taken over there.

I’d have utilised the potential Titan Keepers = bad storyline for DF and capped off the expansion with us fighting Odyn as the DF end boss. He’s another character that’s played a prominent role across the narrative for several expansions and he’d feel a fitting end boss.

Alternatively there’s Murozond with the Infinites receiving a larger story focus in DF but Blizz seem determined to preserve Murozond for future content for whatever reason.

[Nyel]

I think Nyel would agree with that. Problem is, the Incarnates didn't have the time to grow into well-established villains before being killed off.
Garrosh wasn't a WC3 character either, but he was introduced in TBC, fought as an end boss in MoP and killed off in WoD, before getting an epilogue in SL.

Yeah, that’s why I said it‘s good they saved Iridikron as a Gul‘Dan type of character. Now at least he’ll serve a purpose and appear in two expansions, even if we kill him in 11.0 or 11.1.

You know what would be epic? Some time / void sheananigans with Iridikron, Ragnaros and N‘zoth, basically re-establishing the Black Empire with all the elemental stuff and preparing us for the inevitable Void expansion. But that’s just copium on my side. And yes, recycled characters again, but if someone deserve a second coming, it’s N‘zoth. Heck throw Xalathath, Azshara and who not into the mix, there would be more than enough characters.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I mean I think if we are going to have less time they just need to focus on A Plot delivery and making it satisfying in all aspects.

Cause yeah, the sideplot of Aberrus and the Drac'thyr literally died the moment everyone just went Scalies BAD after the announcement.

[Sondrelk]

I think it would tremendously help when they stick to one major storyline and just entirely scrap the side raid / patch altogether.

Aberrus is hardly a side raid though. It's about as integral to the plot as you can get in a Dragon themed expansion.

Beyond that though, you tend to need a side raid to give players a break from the main theme. Otherwise you risk burnout on a theme like what happened in Legion with fel and demons.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Aberrus is hardly a side raid though. It's about as integral to the plot as you can get in a Dragon themed expansion.

Beyond that though, you tend to need a side raid to give players a break from the main theme. Otherwise you risk burnout on a theme like what happened in Legion with fel and demons.

The Echo of Neltharion "Lol Void here, teehee" (Danuser classic) and the Scalecommander Sarkareth boss room being the first tease since Sepulcher about Cosmic Void but other than that it was not really adding anything beyond confirming that a Cosmic Clash with all Cosmic Forces on Azeroth is very likely to be building up (Also confirmed to occur due to the Megadungeon Iridikron Speech).

[Sondrelk]

I mean I think if we are going to have less time they just need to focus on A Plot delivery and making it satisfying in all aspects.

Cause yeah, the sideplot of Aberrus and the Drac'thyr literally died the moment everyone just went Scalies BAD after the announcement.

Dracthyr are very much an offshoot of the main plot. But Aberrus is a core theme, what with all the stuff about Neltharion and his legacy. Not sure what else the raid could have been?

- - - Updated - - -

The Echo of Neltharion "Lol Void here, teehee" (Danuser classic) and the Scalecommander Sarkareth boss room being the first tease since Sepulcher about Cosmic Void but other than that it was not really adding anything beyond confirming that a Cosmic Clash on Azeroth is very likely to be building up.

Sure, but that is more on the plot. The theme of the raid is exactly what I would expect from an expansion about dragons.

[Magistrate]

Aberrus is hardly a side raid though. It's about as integral to the plot as you can get in a Dragon themed expansion.

Beyond that though, you tend to need a side raid to give players a break from the main theme. Otherwise you risk burnout on a theme like what happened in Legion with fel and demons.

Which is why we got the 3 boss raid in Legion.

[Baraden]

All these new forms and there's STILL no way for a balance druid to just use their normal appearance without losing 10% damage (which obviously is untenable for any reasonable person)

Same with shadow priests; which customisation and player agency at the forefront of blizzard's philosophy these days - why are these specs forced to live with a permanent visual effect if they want to deal full damage? Just remove the damage bonus from moonkin form and shadowform and at least make it possible to play without it, even if you sacrifice a bit of utility or something

[Murlocos]

I think it would tremendously help when they stick to one major storyline and just entirely scrap the side raid / patch altogether.

Yeah, I don't think this approach worked very well. Of course they need to seed future storylines, but Blizzard as always swings between extremes, and what we've gotten feels like a bunch of side stories spinning their wheels while in park. Very little satisfying happens in the moment. I think the black and bronze dragonflight stories were meant to be cathartic conclusions, but the former was always going to disappoint some of the audience (especially when they can't write Wrathion consistently), and the latter was a copout dud of a conclusion to a hyped story thread. Which to be fair is what Danuser does best.

Aberrus is hardly a side raid though. It's about as integral to the plot as you can get in a Dragon themed expansion.

Beyond that though, you tend to need a side raid to give players a break from the main theme. Otherwise you risk burnout on a theme like what happened in Legion with fel and demons.

I believe the issue is more with how Dragonflight is themed around each flight, which results in each story feeling like a side story tied to them. The Incarnates are the only real thing tying them all together, and that was the whole hype around the Vault ending and 10.0.7 cutscene: we need to fight the other Incarnates. So how did that turn out?

Iridikron left after a vague monologue for another expansion after being a dungeon boss.
Vyranoth did absolutely nothing at all and didn't even appear in-game until a sudden change of sides where she's relegated to a side quest character.
Fyrakk had a decent amount of screentime and is a fine pure evil baddie. He did his job.

10.2 doesn't feel like it's a real conclusion to the expansion and the threat of the Incarnates, it's just the end of the green dragonflight storyline and the night elf storyline from 2 expansions ago (hopefully). And if something with Tyr comes up in 10.2.5 or whatever that's meant to be the real conclusion, I guarantee you most people outside this forum or Reddit are going to have no idea what's going on because the Tyr storyline is just a bunch of renown-gated sidequests.

[Baraden]

I mean I think if we are going to have less time they just need to focus on A Plot delivery and making it satisfying in all aspects.

Cause yeah, the sideplot of Aberrus and the Drac'thyr literally died the moment everyone just went Scalies BAD after the announcement.

It's probably why they made aug evoker ludicrously overpowered and are likely leaving it that way until 11.0; to put artifical pressure on people to play dracthyr

Outside of that barely anyone cares about them; it's no surprise they were quickly dropped plot wise

I won't ever play one until you can just use your humanoid visage at all times; I don't wanna play a scalie

[vintage79]

I think it's a bit stupid to ever equate Raids such as ToT, SoO, BT, ICC, BRF etc.
*(Huge raids set in the 'current' lore with remarkable end-game bosses)

with any 'present' ones

[Woggmer]

Dracthyr are very much an offshoot of the main plot. But Aberrus is a core theme, what with all the stuff about Neltharion and his legacy. Not sure what else the raid could have been?

If it has Void stuff involved, then wouldn't Iridikron be involved in the raid as well? I mean, I doubt we'd kill him but at least it would explain how he got that void artifact thing in the Dawn of the Infinites dungeon... especially if it was something that Neltharion kept hidden away.

It might not be how it would play out, but it would make some sense than Sarkareth being an idiot.

[Wangming]

I mean I think if we are going to have less time they just need to focus on A Plot delivery and making it satisfying in all aspects.

Cause yeah, the sideplot of Aberrus and the Drac'thyr literally died the moment everyone just went Scalies BAD after the announcement.

I mean literally nobody asked for playable dracthyr, so I dunno why they tried.
At least it showed they are willing to create a race that can't display gear properly, works just fine without mounting up and has access to only one class.
So I have to ask again: Playable Naga when?

[Makorus]

Aberrus is hardly a side raid though. It's about as integral to the plot as you can get in a Dragon themed expansion.

Beyond that though, you tend to need a side raid to give players a break from the main theme. Otherwise you risk burnout on a theme like what happened in Legion with fel and demons.

Nothing happens in Aberrus other than "Oh yeah, void still exists, I guess!".

I mean, we haven't even had a Dragon raid.

[Wangming]

Nothing happens in Aberrus other than "Oh yeah, void still exists, I guess!".

I mean, we haven't even had a Dragon raid.

Yeah if you told me that the final raid of the Dragon isles would be: "Druids of the Flame trying to burn down a tree inside the Emerald Dream" I would ask what the fuck you are smoking and where I can get some of it?