The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Worldshaper]

It’s doubtful that blizzard would do an underground expansion and not include probably the most well known and referenced underground area in the franchise.

I meeaaan...

In BfA, they gave you diaper gnome Island instead of Undermine, Nazjatar as a dry dock instead of a vast underwater realm, and Kul Tiras + Zandalar without including Tel'Abim, Plunder Isle, etc.

They love giving players what they want, but with a creative spin so large that in the end, players aren't really sure they got what they wanted.

Void Elves instead of High Elves, Kul Tiran instead of Vrykul, "Junker Gnomes" instead of true Mechagnomes, etc.

[Kiria]

I meeaaan...

In BfA, they gave you diaper gnome Island instead of Undermine, Nazjatar as a dry dock instead of a vast underwater realm, and Kul Tiras + Zandalar without including Tel'Abim, Plunder Isle, etc.

They love giving players what they want, but with a creative spin so large that in the end, players aren't really sure they got what they wanted.

Void Elves instead of High Elves, Kul Tiran instead of Vrykul, "Junker Gnomes" instead of true Mechagnomes, etc.

Pretty much this, just always feels like Blizz gives a compromise but instead of being the decent end of the compromise they give you the shitty end.

[Teriz]

I meeaaan...

In BfA, they gave you diaper gnome Island instead of Undermine, Nazjatar as a dry dock instead of a vast underwater realm, and Kul Tiras + Zandalar without including Tel'Abim, Plunder Isle, etc.

They love giving players what they want, but with a creative spin so large that in the end, players aren't really sure they got what they wanted.

Void Elves instead of High Elves, Kul Tiran instead of Vrykul, "Junker Gnomes" instead of true Mechagnomes, etc.

Well they gave us Mechagon because they were introducing Mechagnomes. Mechagon could be viewed as a precursor to how they'd do Undermine.

Nazjatar ended up the way it did because of how Vasjh'ir was received.

Tel'Abim and Plunder Isle probably weren't considered worth exploring at the time, and could be used for future expansions.

None of that is really my point though. My point is that if Blizzard is actually doing an underground expansion, it's doubtful they'd leave Undermine out of it, since it's probably the most well-known underground area in warcraft. Also Blizzard likes to anchor expansions in known/famous locations.

[Houle]

Btw, thought i'd bring this up:
https://twitter.com/keyboardturn/sta...66582296879354
https://altertime.es/nuevo-libro-de-...iembre-de-2023

Not anything new, but the dragons losing their fertility is still canon.
And the thing is written by Khadgar.

Blizzard on the title: "a DEFINITIVE guide"
Also Blizzard on the first page: "Take this with a grain of salt, it might just get completely retconned in 2 xpacs guys"

Dont you love how fckn scared they are of this ever since the "Chonicles is definitive canon" vs "Chronicles is just Titan POV" debacle lol

[Makorus]

In what world is the Undermine, a place only really mentioned in quest descriptions and item descriptions, a more well-known underground area than Azjol'nerub?

[MCMLXXXII]

In what world is the Undermine, a place only really mentioned in quest descriptions and item descriptions, a more well-known underground area than Azjol'nerub?

We all know in who's world.

[Dismayxz]

I meeaaan...

In BfA, they gave you diaper gnome Island instead of Undermine, Nazjatar as a dry dock instead of a vast underwater realm, and Kul Tiras + Zandalar without including Tel'Abim, Plunder Isle, etc.

They love giving players what they want, but with a creative spin so large that in the end, players aren't really sure they got what they wanted.

Void Elves instead of High Elves, Kul Tiran instead of Vrykul, "Junker Gnomes" instead of true Mechagnomes, etc.

Did they though? Diaper Gnomes were a whole lot closer to doing Undermine on the whole other ass end of the map. They wanted something that can connect to Kul'tiras, since you physically fly there and can fly there. There's an argument to be made for either to have been the chosen zone, they just went with the one they already set up by having the mechagnome stuff around in Tiragarde.

Nazjatar had to be a dry dock. There were only two ways to give us Nazjatar proper - Do it like Vashj'ir or get rid of the one thing people hated about Vashj'ir - either physically being or physically feeling like an underwater zone, no 3d movement via new tech, where it just looks like you are underwater but honestly, you couldn't take off if you wanted to. And what do you do with flying mounts in that situation? Just let people 'fly' through the 'mock water' with their mounts? There was no way we'd ever have gotten the Nazjatar people wanted, because we already had an example of the Nazjatar people wanted and it's notoriously remembered as two specific things: Kinda beautiful, but fucking annoying to play in.

The creative spins don't always just happen because they want to creatively spin something into a new thing, there have been plenty of examples where it was just easier than coming up with new tech on the spot or there was already examples of people hating the base concept you'd have to base it on.

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In what world is the Undermine, a place only really mentioned in quest descriptions and item descriptions, a more well-known underground area than Azjol'nerub?

Teriz's apparently? I've forgotten Undermine even existed before he brought it up initially. No point getting deep into the lore of comedic relief races.

[Teriz]

In what world is the Undermine, a place only really mentioned in quest descriptions and item descriptions, a more well-known underground area than Azjol'nerub?

In a world where Goblins are a much larger presence in the game world than Nerubians, and said Goblins mention Undermine constantly.

Also in a world where Undermine was intended to be a continent in vanilla.

[Dismayxz]

Well they gave us Mechagon because they were introducing Mechagnomes. Mechagon could be viewed as a precursor to how they'd do Undermine.

Nazjatar ended up the way it did because of how Vasjh'ir was received.

Tel'Abim and Plunder Isle probably weren't considered worth exploring at the time, and could be used for future expansions.

None of that is really my point though. My point is that if Blizzard is actually doing an underground expansion, it's doubtful they'd leave Undermine out of it, since it's probably the most well-known underground area in warcraft. Also Blizzard likes to anchor expansions in known/famous locations.

What exactly makes Undermine famous? There is a good chance that Gadgetzan and the floating racing boat in Thousand Needles are more known to the general playerbase with an interest in Lore, than Undermine ever will be. The place has been forgotten the moment Kezan got nuked.

[Woggmer]

In what world is the Undermine, a place only really mentioned in quest descriptions and item descriptions, a more well-known underground area than Azjol'nerub?

But if they do that, then they would have to fiddle around with Northrend in order to use that tech they mentioned. It'd be easier just to make Azjol'nerub an entire instanced zone (not a dungeon or a raid) for it to work.

And I'm not even sure if Anub'arak came back during the Shadowlands Pre-patch event like the other well-known bosses. If he did then there is a chance of seeing him and going into Azjol'Nerub... but it won't have enough weight unless Yogg Saron (somehow) survived and is living in the bottom of Azjol'Nerub... or if there's something else down there.

Though again, I don't fully believe we'll ever see go into Azjol'Nerub again... just like how they won't do the scrapped Drakkari raid that was planned.

[Teriz]

What exactly makes Undermine famous? There is a good chance that Gadgetzan and the floating racing boat in Thousand Needles are more known to the general playerbase with an interest in Lore, than Undermine ever will be. The place has been forgotten the moment Kezan got nuked.

Forgotten by who? Blizzard certainly didn't forget about it, because it's been mentioned multiple times since Cataclysm.

[Raetary]

since it's probably the most well-known underground area in warcraft.

Ironforge, Gnomeregan an Azjol-Nerub say hello.

[Woggmer]

What exactly makes Undermine famous? There is a good chance that Gadgetzan and the floating racing boat in Thousand Needles are more known to the general playerbase with an interest in Lore, than Undermine ever will be. The place has been forgotten the moment Kezan got nuked.

Well, that's what we thought until BFA when the Venture Co took over the island to harvest veins of Azerite. (This is the reason behind the Motherlode dungeon) after which it's used as a goblin testing facility until Gallywix takes over and turns it into next city called Crapopolis. Kezan is still in use, so it is up to Blizz if they want to explore further.

And even if it was "destroyed" in the Cataclysm, they can retcon it so that only "part" of the city was destroyed similar to how "part" of Zuldazar sank into the ocean during the Cataclysm.

[huth]

Well, that's what we thought until BFA when the Venture Co took over the island to harvest veins of Azerite. (This is the reason behind the Motherlode dungeon) after which it's used as a goblin testing facility until Gallywix takes over and turns it into next city called Crapopolis. Kezan is still in use, so it is up to Blizz if they want to explore further.

And even if it was "destroyed" in the Cataclysm, they can retcon it so that only "part" of the city was destroyed similar to how "part" of Zuldazar sank into the ocean during the Cataclysm.

Let's not forget this is Goblins, too. Stuff exploding in their face is a daily occurence.

[Teriz]

Well, that's what we thought until BFA when the Venture Co took over the island to harvest veins of Azerite. (This is the reason behind the Motherlode dungeon) after which it's used as a goblin testing facility until Gallywix takes over and turns it into next city called Crapopolis. Kezan is still in use, so it is up to Blizz if they want to explore further.

And even if it was "destroyed" in the Cataclysm, they can retcon it so that only "part" of the city was destroyed similar to how "part" of Zuldazar sank into the ocean during the Cataclysm.

We also had a Blizzard dev stating that they wanted Goblins to return to Undermine and other Goblin holdings in the future after Cataclysm.

At BlizzCon 2010, Alex Afrasiabi said that the goblin starting zone was only "a small segment of the actual whole' of Kezan", and that the goblins "did want to go back to Undermine and the other goblin land holdings, just a question of when."

If its on the docket, it's on the docket.

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Ironforge, Gnomeregan an Azjol-Nerub say hello.

I could see us venturing into Azjol-Nerub as well. It would just require a stronger reason than why we would venture into Undermine, since the factions could use Undermine as a starting hub for deeper underground exploration.

[huth]

We also had a Blizzard dev stating that they wanted Goblins to return to Undermine and other Goblin holdings in the future after Cataclysm.

He says that the goblins wanted that. Not that they'll ever succeed.

[Nymrohd]

What exactly makes Undermine famous? There is a good chance that Gadgetzan and the floating racing boat in Thousand Needles are more known to the general playerbase with an interest in Lore, than Undermine ever will be. The place has been forgotten the moment Kezan got nuked.

And we did go to Kezan. The aptly named Crapopolis from the Motherlode! is in Kezan.

[Teriz]

He says that the goblins wanted that. Not that they'll ever succeed.

I believe him saying "It's just a question of when" seals the deal. We also have to remember that Blizzard wanted Undermine in Vanilla, so getting it into the game is probably a goal of theirs that they eventually want to accomplish at some point.

[Makorus]

My man, Afrasiabi doesn't even work for Blizzard anymore LMAO

[PotHockets]

I believe him saying "It's just a question of when" seals the deal. We also have to remember that Blizzard wanted Undermine in Vanilla, so getting it into the game is probably a goal of theirs that they eventually want to accomplish at some point.

Anything they wanted in vanilla doesn't matter. I mean shit anything they wanted in like Legion doesn't matter at this point. That was so long ago and anyone that even slightly wanted to add X thing 20 years ago may not even be alive anymore much less working at Blizzard.