The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nymrohd]

Huh. That's an interesting development. As an extension, this also would mean they're related to Troggs in some capacity.

Would rather they were related to Troggs directly. Grummles are the result of mogu fleshcrafting right?

Still Grummles are awesome and might save Loamm because right now it looks like crap.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Would rather they were related to Troggs directly. Grummles are the result of mogu fleshcrafting right?

Still Grummles are awesome and might save Loamm because right now it looks like crap.

Could be that they're some kind of missing link between the two. It wouldn't be out-of-character to retcon in the existence of a missing link between Troggs and the fleshcrafted Grummles. Alternatively, they could just be Grummles that found themselves in the Dragon Isles and mutated underground. They were messengers, after all, and the Mogu are Titan constructs that may have tried (in vain) to contact the Dragon Aspects.

[Wangming]

They were messengers, after all, and the Mogu are Titan constructs that may have tried (in vain) to contact the Dragon Aspects.

I like this version. Especially since it adds more Mogu lore.

[Skildar]

Honestly I found the way that scenario ended utterly ridiculous. The portal apparently stays up long enough for not just every clan to send people over but even random Botani and Saberon to hop in while in the middle of a battlefield yet the Lightforged did not get through even though they absolutely dominated the battlefield on the other side (which would have set up a great plot hook but alas). Meanwhile we are told the portal will barely stay up for us to go in and out and we barely make it.

Imagine if Garrosh Lightscream had gone through and that's how we got the Light Crusade future expac; he meets Liadrin's adopted daughter, they assault the Caverns of Time and find a way to wibbly wobbly timey wimey connect AU Draenor with MU Outland.

I wouldn't put it past blizzard to one day do such an expansion. But I think that for the community to embrace it fully we would need a tv show or another video game telling us the story of AU Draenor and their light crusade.

But would the community want to watch a show about AU Draenor characters that we have abandoned ten years ago? I know I would, but will someone that hasn't touch the game yet would?

[Wangming]

I know I would, but will someone that hasn't touch the game yet would?

That never stopped them before. The story often operates under the assumption that you already know of and care about the characters so they don't really need to do the work to make you know and care.

[guro-tchai]

Imagine if Garrosh Lightscream had gone through and that's how we got the Light Crusade future expac; he meets Liadrin's adopted daughter, they assault the Caverns of Time and find a way to wibbly wobbly timey wimey connect AU Draenor with MU Outland.

unnecessary. we were already told that the AU Draenor was dying during the wars of conversion, and that the Mother of Light was there. supposedly, they then have a reason to get off the moribund world and the means to do so: the naaru spaceships.
Exarch Hellscream is a must, ofc.

btw, anyone got a good name for the Light expac? the Burning Crusade is taken =/

[Nathanyel]

Doing the orc heritage quests on my orc warlock will feel hilarious.

Aggra says something like "You are everything an Orc should be", and I immediately thought that this would sound weird on a Warlock

The human questline isn't terrible, but isn't great either. Their heritage seems to revolve around Onyxia, which is kind of weird.

Considering her influence launched basically all internal conflicts of Stormwind, not too surprising. But from what I read (haven't played it yet) it revolves rather around a noble using an amulet containing a bit of her magic, and Defias members who don't want solutions, they want to be mad. Essentially, humans who can't let go of the past.

Even as a traumatized mind control victim in exile Anduin still manages to defuse conflict and destroy a long-lasting antagonist faction by paying reparations and cleaning up the House of Nobles off-screen and retroactively.

Not that anyone with a pulse is surprised by this turn of events.

Well, yes, it would only be surprising if Anduin HADN'T initiated reparations when he became King. Maybe not immediately during the Legion's invasion, but definitely after that.
Yes, we should've learned about this earlier, but learning this now doesn’t make this a retroactive change ("retcon")

[Nymrohd]

Aggra says something like "You are everything an Orc should be", and I immediately thought that this would sound weird on a Warlock

Drek'thar challenges me to a honorable orc duel, I burn his dogs with hellfire and drop an infernal on his house

[Wangming]

Well, yes, it would only be surprising if Anduin HADN'T initiated reparations when he became King. Maybe not immediately during the Legion's invasion, but definitely after that.
Yes, we should've learned about this earlier, but learning this now doesn’t make this a retroactive change ("retcon")

Dunno how much reparations they gave out though considering that Legion was immediately followed by BfA. The economy on Azeroth must be fucked. I could see Pandaria doing relatively okay, but the rest? Ehhh.
Next expansion we are going to an alternate universe to strip them of resources.

[Nymrohd]

unnecessary. we were already told that the AU Draenor was dying during the wars of conversion, and that the Mother of Light was there. supposedly, they then have a reason to get off the moribund world and the means to do so: the naaru spaceships.
Exarch Hellscream is a must, ofc.

btw, anyone got a good name for the Light expac? the Burning Crusade is taken =/

The Shining Crusade

[Wangming]

btw, anyone got a good name for the Light expac? the Burning Crusade is taken =/

Lightbringer? Army of Light? Silver Hand? Silver Fist? Or Exarchs of Draenor to parallel with WoD.

[GabrielKnight]

I completed the Baine quest yesterday and, while the ending was extremely predictable, it was nice seeing him going crazy. In fact, I was surprised at the fact that they had the balls to show him in that state - he literally turns the centaurs into pulps of flesh with awesome music in the background. Considering how pussy this expansion is, this came as a surprise. I hope they do more of this.

[Murlocos]

The other races definitely need a similar level of love that humans have gotten for customization. They got triple the number of face options in SL, on top of face shapes letting you further alter the look, meanwhile races like tauren and trolls still have 4-5 faces total. Dracthyr's individual eye color settings should be backported to the other races. It'd be great if facial scarring could be a separate setting as well.

It's not entirely related, but with how increasingly easy it is to achieve some egregious clipping on armor, I think Blizzard should just bite the bullet and allow you to keep your hair showing when wearing helms. It's not like there's a golden standard of quality to break with the change.

Bumping this back up because the 10.1 PTR build yesterday indeed backported the Dracthyr individual blindness section to the other races. It looks a little strange on races with glowing eyes like draenei or night elves as they keep some of the color still, but some of them never even had a blind option before so it's just more options.

[Super Dickmann]

Well, yes, it would only be surprising if Anduin HADN'T initiated reparations when he became King. Maybe not immediately during the Legion's invasion, but definitely after that.
Yes, we should've learned about this earlier, but learning this now doesn’t make this a retroactive change ("retcon")

@Sondrelk @Le Conceptuel

It's not a retcon in as much it isn't contradicting anything. What it is though is dull, boring, trite and some other mean words. It's completely irrelevant whether it would make sense for Anduin to hand over reparations to the farmers, notwithstanding how the fuck he had the resources to do this given the endless costly wars, but we'll get back to that. It's about what story is being told in this. In this case, there is no story. The human heritage quest, like everything Anduin-related in BFA and the Sylvanas book, though not SL itself, is meant to defuse stories in their crib.

Anduin, a young inexperienced king who's been in repeated crises and was at least initially doubted for his leadership confronting the established nobility of Stormwind is an interesting potential story. Their views and his will clearly clash as much as their interests do. Similarly, Anduin dealing with waging a ruinous war against the Horde involving mass conscription of farmers to the point of exhaustion while flooding their city with night elven refugees that need caring for in a war that'd clearly have a considerable material cost opens the door to civil unrest. We even see someone call Anduin out on it in Shadows Rising, so even Blizzard are only mostly rather than entirely tone deaf to this. In his war with the Horde, Anduin ultimately gained nothing, spent a lot of lives and eulogized one of the main instigators of the war. Then he dropped off the planet and handed the reins to Turalyon, who's reign, incidentally, has zero reflection here either.

A Defias Brotherhood resurgent based on the cost in blood and treasure that the war with the Horde entailed, combined with a deprivation of Westfall that'd only be sharper in light of a Legion invasion that took place over its skies writes itself as far as conflicts go. The people involved in such an organization are, beyond having the potential to be Edwin-tier in their grounds, at least have motive enough to serve as recurring antagonists rather than one-off thieves lead by a comical caricature. Having the House of Nobles subvert such a group to advance their own strength, be it during Anduin's rule or facing off against Turalyon who has otherworldly elves and space marines on his side to suppress them with, is a story worth telling. But these stories aren't and can't be told, because that'd entail internal Alliance conflict and even though Vanessa takes the piss out of the idea of a magic necklace being responsible for Varian not paying the Stonemasons, the contrived series of events to make sure all genuine conflict is handwaved away in the background while the actual plot faces off exclusively against petty, self-serving clowns is just that.

Even the hollowing out of the Defias, an organisation twice founded against rule by the nobility, explicitly founded on class warfare and now being co-opted as a weapon by the class who fucked them and being filled with petty thugs and opportunists is a story that can and would be told. But unlike the orc story, this story doesn't deal with class, politics or even people at large. It deals with the interpersonal drama of six or so pricks just like all the worst aspects of the plot these last couple years.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

btw, anyone got a good name for the Light expac? the Burning Crusade is taken =/

Onslaught of the Sanctified?

[Varodoc]

Then he dropped off the planet and handed the reins to Turalyon, who's reign, incidentally, has zero reflection here either.

Turalyon has bigger things to worry about than some crazed traitor with a small gang of thugs.

Besides, Turalyon's reign has been one of peace. Stormwind under Turalyon is much different than Stormwind under Varian. Stormwind under Varian just came out of a long process of reconstruction, this was the whole catalyst for the Defias uprising. Meanwhile, Stormwind under Turalyon has been at peace and has been flourishing for 5 years, by the time Dragonflight starts. There's no reason for farmers to rise up against Turalyon, which is why the modern Defias are comprised of psychos who enjoy robbing for no reason at all.

Why would there be social tensions when Turalyon has kept the peace for 5 years? This doesn't make any sense.

And as I explained, Turalyon isn't involved in this questline because he has bigger concerns than some crazed nobleman and a few thieves who joined him.

[Super Dickmann]

And as I explained, Turalyon isn't involved in this questline because he has bigger concerns than some crazed nobleman and a few thieves who joined him.

Tell me you don't want to see space marine holy goats and entropic elves pull a purge of the Stormwind nobility and I'll be in shock.

[Cheezits]

A third Defias rebellion would be so incredibly boring and reaching that I'm glad it didn't happen. Some classic themes we don't have to repeat, and even if Shadowlands was disliked it IS okay to kill off some WC3/Vanilla stories.

[Sondrelk]

-snip-

I have to disagree on the Defias. While Anduin giving reparations is a bit of an anticlimax in terms of it just fixing the issue, it was also an issue that made more sense being fixed than not.
The Defias insurgence was always predicated on the idea of corrupt nobles making an issue from nothing, and the continued issue only made sense when the Stormwind ruler was actively not doing anything to fix it.

I would argue that the root issue you have here is more on this being another victory for Anduin, and not so much for it being a reasonable bit of story progression. Had this been a thing that Variant and the Westfall brigade did, then I think the optics would have worked far better.

As for the Defias itself I would argue that this change simply makes them more inline with the motivation that they logically would have had in Cata onwards anyways.
While a bit heavy handed in labelling the Defias all thugs, i would argue that this direction makes more sense for them as a recurring threat. Radicalized malcontents that choose a life of crime because it makes sense to them.

I have to agree on the actual necklace though. The story would have worked just as well if it was centered squarely on Vanessa being ousted from the Defias in favor of a radical leader who doesn't care about the original ideals. A caricature of even Vanessa, who herself didnt care much about the ideals beyond vengeance.
Making the Defias the lapdogs of the Stormwind Nobles adds a layer of tragic irony to them I find.
I can only hope that the new Defias ringleader gets some interesting buildup. It feels like the writers made him intentionally vague in order to fill in the blanks later, which I don't think is a bad idea.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Tell me you don't want to see space marine holy goats and entropic elves pull a purge of the Stormwind nobility and I'll be in shock.

I was thinking I could see this happening, albeit perhaps on a smaller scale. Turalyon cracking down on the more corrupt elements of the nobility seems in-character—at the very least, I'd expect him to start appropriating their resources for religious institutions or the military to punish the nobility for stepping out of line. Even if he doesn't extort them directly, a ludicrous wealth tax is within the realm of reason. If it were the latter, I could see him being smart enough to realize that the nobility wouldn't like it and audacious or ideological enough not to care, and appropriating a host of wealth for military and religious institutions would be fairly suitable for how he's been portrayed thus far.