The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

So we aren't allowed to criticize three expansions in a row just cause there was less sexual harassment and more bare minimum this time?
I can and I will. I don't think I have standards they can't meet if they really want.

I don't need rose tinted glasses to just say based on my experience after doing most of the content that Dragonflight has to offer, is pretty boring expansion when it comes to what's inside of it. It's not bad, it's boring.

I hated shadowlands and won't comment on that and i hated azerite system in BFA, but i wasn't that bored with BFA as i am with DF(zones were also a lot better and more diverese in BFA than DF), which has many features that aren't impactful or interesting at all, not even mentioning the story that just feels like it jumps from one thing to another without really going deeper to what they're trying to tell and what the main characters are actually doing, besides cutscenes of them talking about pretty much nothing that matters in the actual storyline.

Open world events - every patch DF has the same open world event pretty much, just different name on it in most cases.

if you think dragonflight is unsatisifying to you, you should just give up on wow because at this point youre just complaining to be complaining until the next expansion release to talk about how great DF was

[ImTheMizAwesome]

if you think dragonflight is unsatisifying to you, you should just give up on wow because at this point youre just complaining to be complaining until the next expansion release to talk about how great DF was

"complaining to be complaining" well, i guess i feel better painted as some kind of doomer than a yes man that thinks everything is great and noone can't dislike anything that is in DF.

I said what i think the issues with DF are after playing through it all, give me some arguments why these for example open world systems are so great and alive still after patches? Spoiler:they're dead.

@Nymrohd also brought good points, will you tell him too that he's just complaining just to be complaining?

[Samin]

I'm not hating on Dragonflight, I'm just not a fan of the tone. In terms of gameplay and content, it's doing alright. Everything else though? Not so much...

In my mind, despite its problems with gameplay, BfA did a much better job capturing the Warcraft feel than DF. I have no interest in Dracthyr, Iridikron, Primalists, and all this other Pixar-esque nonsense they're trying to push.

Dragonflight feels like it's doing just as much damage to the game's lore as Shadowlands.

I don't even really agree with the criticism of the story, but regardless I see the exact opposite of what you describe in Diablo 4 - return to what is supposedly the "true" Diablo tone, but huge flaws in gameplay and I dropped it immediately and if I didn't have other stuff to play would probably have reinstalled Diablo 3 again.

Meanwhile I haven't stuck around an expansion as long as DF since Cata when all my friends were still actively playing and giving me a reason to stick around. And those friends who didn't drop WoW entirely, who in past expansion jumped off basically before .1 have also stuck around for longer (probably being a part of the reason for my continued motivation to play)

Again, I'm not saying story doesn't matter, but imo "good" story doesn't make a fun game - I actually think the "tone shift" in DF is a good thing for the game as a whole at this point in time and I'm also very much opposed to insisting that WoW must be defined by a grimmer tone. I don't think it ever was and the transformative nature of WoW's story was always a big aspect of it so I'm looking optimistic towards any change.

[Auxis]

So, we got any new equipment for the updated Hallows End this year? We had the Brewfest shield in the Trading post pre-Brewfest - any new weapons been datamined?

Wouldnt mind a new version of the HH's sword, ngl

[Annihilas]

Elune's an old god the titans locked within a facility on the moon.
#confirmed

Doubt it, wearing squid-face isn't befitting of our Goddess of the moon!

[Nymrohd]

I don't even really agree with the criticism of the story, but regardless I see the exact opposite of what you describe in Diablo 4 - return to what is supposedly the "true" Diablo tone, but huge flaws in gameplay and I dropped it immediately and if I didn't have other stuff to play would probably have reinstalled Diablo 3 again.

Meanwhile I haven't stuck around an expansion as long as DF since Cata when all my friends were still actively playing and giving me a reason to stick around. And those friends who didn't drop WoW entirely, who in past expansion jumped off basically before .1 have also stuck around for longer (probably being a part of the reason for my continued motivation to play)

Again, I'm not saying story doesn't matter, but imo "good" story doesn't make a fun game - I actually think the "tone shift" in DF is a good thing for the game as a whole at this point in time and I'm also very much opposed to insisting that WoW must be defined by a grimmer tone. I don't think it ever was and the transformative nature of WoW's story was always a big aspect of it so I'm looking optimistic towards any change.

You absolutely should reinstall D3 because it has far better gameplay as an ARPG. It is fast and it is satisfying when you can demolish entire screens full of mobs. D4 is a slog. It definitely looks more like a diablo game but it doesn't play like one, not yet anyway.
And this is valid for WoW as well. Here is the thing. MoP, Legion, BfA all had their own major systems that pushed the scaling past its limits. MoP had reforging, broken ass trinkets, a strong legendary and item upgrades. Legion and BfA had their AP systems. And yes there were numerous issues with these forms of upgrades but at the end of the day, they also made my character feel like a god.
Meanwhile in DF every rare in the world seems to be a damage sponge. All the events seem tuned for the first weeks when you can barely even see the mobs under the dozens of players hitting them. Try to do them a few weeks late and you are all alone spending 3-4 mins killing a rare slowly that doesn't really have much chance of killing you but sure will take its sweet time to die before it disappoints you by dropping no pet/mount/recipe/whatever again.

As for the point about tone. DF can have its grim moments as well. I don't think what WoW is missing is grimdark. What WoW is missing is EPIC moments.

[Shadowferal]

Again, I'm not saying story doesn't matter, but imo "good" story doesn't make a fun game

I've never heard that before. And I'll never play any game where a "good story" isn't part of the game.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

So, we got any new equipment for the updated Hallows End this year? We had the Brewfest shield in the Trading post pre-Brewfest - any new weapons been datamined?

Wouldnt mind a new version of the HH's sword, ngl

https://youtu.be/2HVKfJEAZco only found this video from MrGM about 2023 edition.

pumpkin offhand, dragon customization.

[Hitei]

"complaining to be complaining" well, i guess i feel better painted as some kind of doomer than a yes man that thinks everything is great and noone can't dislike anything that is in DF.

I said what i think the issues with DF are after playing through it all, give me some arguments why these for example open world systems are so great and alive still after patches? Spoiler:they're dead?

So, at best, your argument is that DF despite having more open world stuff than most expansions, has the exact same issue that every other expansion had, where people don't stick around forever doing a thing when they're done with it?

Is this the part where we pretend Mechagon/Nazjatar/Legion Assaults weren't completely dead after they lost relevancy? Because three weeks into Mechagon I was sitting around in front of a living Arachnoid Harvester praying 3-4 people would come by to kill it. And I find other people killing Fyrakk Forgemasters way more often than I had other people looking to kill the big Legion Assault WQ rares after those had been out a while.

[Nymrohd]

So, at best, your argument is that DF despite having more open world stuff than most expansions, has the exact same issue that every other expansion had, where people don't stick around forever doing a thing when they're done with it?

I mean all this tells me that what they are doing for world content is not working. It did not work then, it is not working now.
Lasting outdoor content is not something they have managed to create just yet (imo because lasting repeatable content in WoW depends on there being rewards and challenge and open world content is not allowed to have gear rewards and definitely not to be challenging).

But the thing is, the instanced content is also . . .less. The raids are 2 bosses smaller than average. We should have gotten two more dungeons. There is no additional game mode. So did all those resources go into creating Dreamsurges?

[ImTheMizAwesome]

So, at best, your argument is that DF despite having more open world stuff than most expansions, has the exact same issue that every other expansion had, where people don't stick around forever doing a thing when they're done with it?

Is this the part where we pretend Mechagon/Nazjatar/Legion Assaults weren't completely dead after they lost relevancy? Because three weeks into Mechagon I was sitting around in front of a living Arachnoid Harvester praying 3-4 people would come by to kill it. And I find other people killing Fyrakk Forgemasters way more often than I had other people looking to kill the big Legion Assault WQ rares after those had been out a while.

Yes but the problem with DF open world stuff that it dies a LOT faster than in other expansions and they don't try to reinvent the wheel by doing something fresh.

The group events that were in 10.0 were entertaining for a while, but it was something new like the cooking event with many people doing it - but after that we are only getting invasion like events that are at most half baked.
It's pretty much something in the area happens, go there and wait for a portal to appear with enemies or just enemies to spawn after 2 min event is done.
The event in 10.2 is very similar to what we already had.

Even major patch area like Zaralek caverns with new events and open world content was dead much quicker than for let's say the forbidden reach rare farming and i would say much faster than Nazjatar or mechagon.

The open world content is one of the problems i have with DF, the other stuff i mentioned in my other post talking about more evergreen content and longterm features that DF doesn't have.

[Kiria]

"complaining to be complaining" well, i guess i feel better painted as some kind of doomer than a yes man that thinks everything is great and noone can't dislike anything that is in DF.

I said what i think the issues with DF are after playing through it all, give me some arguments why these for example open world systems are so great and alive still after patches? Spoiler:they're dead.

@Nymrohd also brought good points, will you tell him too that he's just complaining just to be complaining?

I agree with this, someone who truly loves something will also generally be one of its biggest critics.

[Santandame]

Next expansion needs more solo or small group based content that just works and bring the evergreen features that worked in the past but with fresh coat of paint and new features, unlockables etc and at the same time not overdesigning it because they want to be very original.

If i don't like doing m+ grind every week, then when it comes to fresh open world content DF in patches hardly has anything to offer and new players coming back that want to do some of the 10.0 public events are usually f'd because that content is long dead, even Zaralek farming was dead quickly after its release.

WoW needs more solo and longterm, longer lasting stuff and i don't even mean something like azerite grind, it also needs to do better job at connecting the systems so that they are still worth doing later.

Essentially, WoW needs Torghast back with diverse aesthetics, it’s own separate reward structure, and not to be forced into it if you don’t want to do it.

[lanerios]

I agree with this, someone who truly loves something will also generally be one of its biggest critics.

I disagree. Sadly it's the usual forum drivel. "You don't agree with me, therefor you are a yes man that will never say anything bad about DF". You can still enjoy the game and have your reservations about some choices. There is no black/white here.

Getting really tired of this "oh you still enjoy the game, you must be a fanboy" style posts.

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Essentially, WoW needs Torghast back with diverse aesthetics, it’s own separate reward structure, and not to be forced into it if you don’t want to do it.

While I agree, we are in the minority here. Most people here were crying that it was the worst content ever and it should never ever have been released. And while I love Torghast, there was no real progression to it. That only happened near the end of the expansion cycle with the "endless" mode and such.
If they added a Torghast with more cosmetic style rewards (weapons mogs, armor etc) I would love it so much more.

[NikolaiShade]

Essentially, WoW needs Torghast back with diverse aesthetics, it’s own separate reward structure, and not to be forced into it if you don’t want to do it.

Torghast was the perfect example of a wasted opportunity. They could even implement a form of "borrowed power" only usable in this scenario (torghast talent tree but account-wide and more varied) . for the rewards they could even be unused appearances. the real problem is making it xpack agnostic (something related to the timeways could be funny)

[Nymrohd]

I disagree. Sadly it's the usual forum drivel. "You don't agree with me, therefor you are a yes man that will never say anything bad about DF". You can still enjoy the game and have your reservations about some choices. There is no black/white here.

Getting really tired of this "oh you still enjoy the game, you must be a fanboy" style posts.

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While I agree, we are in the minority here. Most people here were crying that it was the worst content ever and it should never ever have been released. And while I love Torghast, there was no real progression to it. That only happened near the end of the expansion cycle with the "endless" mode and such.
If they added a Torghast with more cosmetic style rewards (weapons mogs, armor etc) I would love it so much more.

Only it was the opposite thing that happened; someone who likes DF told us that we cannot possibly have any valid criticism and we should just quit playing.

[Hitei]

I mean all this tells me that what they are doing for world content is not working. It did not work then, it is not working now.

That isn't because of the world content, that is because rewards aren't infinite and people aren't going to keep doing the same thing forever if they're not getting something tangible out of it relatively quickly. Just because Kara chess event or Flame Leviathan are interesting and unique fights that are amusing to do more than once doesn't mean you still want to do them just for the sake of doing them two months in when your whole raid team has anything they could want off that boss.

It didn't work then, that's why they instead allowed people to naturally complete world content and added more random stuff to do with each patch.

But the thing is, the instanced content is also . . .less. The raids are 2 bosses smaller than average. We should have gotten two more dungeons. There is no additional game mode. So did all those resources go into creating Dreamsurges?

The environment resources went into getting two full-sized patch zones instead of the single one most expansions have or the 1.5 BfA had and the biggest continent since Vanilla launch. The encounter and scripting resources went into a higher average complexity in raid encounters and things like Sennarth as well as into wider-audience little bits and bobs like Secrets of Azeroth. The item asset resources went into an expansion with more miscellaneous cosmetic rewards than any prior and all sorts of new sets and items for stuff like the Trading Post. And yes, I'm sure that a couple people that might have scripted stuff for a raid fight instead worked on things like the more complex world quests (catalog raft, rock climbing, etc.) and world events.

[Darkarath]

Nazjatar and Mechagon lasted for way longer than Zaralek Caverns IMO. At least I remember spending months there and quite a lot of players were around. Especially in Mechagon, which was more fun IMO, maybe not so much in Nazjatar.

I would say that Forbidden Reach was quite fun and successful for what it is, and It lasted more than ZC, which died pretty quickly.

The Fyrakk event is nice and easy. Just another thing to do. It is ok and I still see players doing it. Time Rifts are a success and many people still do them. We will see how long 10.2 World Events remain important.

I agree that none of these events were groundbreaking, but hey, they are trying quite a lot of things. The worst one was Primalist Future, and IMO they have been improving with every patch.

I think that all this variety of events are nice and they should keep doing them. The problem are the rewards. It would be cool to have a World Events / Quests progression in some way. Maybe something as simple as a bar that fills as we do WQs and Events, and when it reachs the end we get some gold, some random transmogs, a chance of pets and mounts... They do not even have to be new. Plenty of all those rewards in WoW's 20 years history.

[Nymrohd]

Yes but the problem with DF open world stuff that it dies a LOT faster than in other expansions and they don't try to reinvent the wheel by doing something fresh.

The group events that were in 10.0 were entertaining for a while, but it was something new like the cooking event with many people doing it - but after that we are only getting invasion like events that are at most half baked.
It's pretty much something in the area happens, go there and wait for a portal to appear with enemies or just enemies to spawn after 2 min event is done.
The event in 10.2 is very similar to what we already had.

Even major patch area like Zaralek caverns with new events and open world content was dead much quicker than for let's say the forbidden reach rare farming and i would say much faster than Nazjatar or mechagon.

The open world content is one of the problems i have with DF, the other stuff i mentioned in my other post talking about more evergreen content and longterm features that DF doesn't have.

I don't think they die too fast tbh. They only die too fast on the first few weeks when everyone is doing them. Afterwards the areas are empty and everything takes ages to die instead because they had to buff them so they could survive the early rush.

Forbidden reach stayed active for longer because it was tied with a very strong catch up system.

[Hitei]

Only it was the opposite thing that happened; someone who likes DF told us that we cannot possibly have any valid criticism and we should just quit playing.

Imagine that. Someone telling you to consider not playing a thing you don't enjoy playing. Wild. What a world we live in.