The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nymrohd]

yea, MoP and Legion are both great examples of everyone hating them endlessly and now going "omg it had such good content! They were the best expansions". At the end of next expansion? People will be praising DF and SL, just wait for it.

MoP received a ton of hatred before its release. While MoP was played, the only consistent issue the players had against it was the reward structure at release with some decent Valor rewards locked behind rep and that idiotic rep gating system MoP had. Heart of Fear was also poorly received (Garalon sucked).
Legion got hatred for two very related reasons. The AP grind which was a non-issue, it was just the tryhards whining about it non-stop and it did not affect the vast majority of the playerbase; unfortunately the tryhards are VERY LOUD and the legendary lottery which absolutely was a problem.
Neither got significant hatred for their content or their gameplay.

And I am not saying DF is bad. DF is far better than SL or WoD. But so many people are acting as if it is an amazing expansion and I just don't see it.

[Xilurm]

So Amirdrassil is not main capital? Hyjal still has it hope to me
Maybe there will be more world trees across Azeroth. Hyjal, BI, DI. At least 3 will be acting.

Also
>Amirdrassil growing and coming to Azeroth is something both factions are interested in
That is strange topic. What is deal with Horde at Amirdrassil. Dont take away NE victory once again. Give them big W and leave them for 3-4 expacs.

Well... that is certainly interesting.

Who is Katherine Bankson again? Is she involved with the writing?

[ImTheMizAwesome]

The only people who truly hated and were very vocal against Legion were the hardcore raiders who had to earn so much AP in a week in order to be chosen to do the raid, for casuals like most of us, it was great fun.

I loved legion but it wasn't perfect, but like you said for casual like us it was great fun and i mentioned it in the past.

One of the things that legion did good is longterm content - I lvled and played many classes/specs i never played before just to do more stuff with artifact system and class order halls, then you have the magetower which lasted whole expansion for both more hardcore and casual players eventually.
I did the tank challenge and i never played tank, spent a month training, gearing for it and it was awesome feeling in the end.

Other important stuff that Legion introduced to the game are world quest system, m+, added the invasion open world type events that were fun if done once but is way overdone now.

I just think that next expansion doesn't have to be exactly like Legion, but they should do something like that again in terms of adding fresh type of content features that just lasts longer and become a big part of further expansion such as world quests and m+ i mentioned above.

DF has dragonriding which will be a thing probably used in most future expansions which is good, it will be even nicer to have a choice between static and dynamic flying.

[ercarp]

My problem with Avaloren is that it’s yet another mysterious land hidden by mists/storms that is influenced by titans and dragons. It sounds more like an extension of Dragonflight than a new expansion on its own.

That's a valid concern.

If we get Avaloren, I hope they give attention to some of the races that haven't had much time in the limelight recently. I'm okay with more Titan lore personally as I think they were more of a side-story in Dragonflight in terms of the overarching story. Like, yeah, there was some stuff with Tyr, but the majority of the story was focused on the Primalists, the Dracthyr, and the dragonflights.

Here's what I personally hope to see on Avaloren:

• More dwarf lore is a given. They haven't had a dedicated zone since Twilight Highlands despite being one of the more popular races in the lore.
• A civilization of pandaren that left their homeland long ago and developed a different culture on Avaloren. I'm not even a huge fan of pandaren, but they've been consistently brushed under the carpet since MoP. They deserve better.
• Something with dark trolls. Trolls are almost always front and center so this is a bit of an exception, but I think there's a chance to do something unique with dark trolls given that we know fairly little about their culture.
• Ogres. Wouldn't really make sense given their presence on Azeroth is fairly minimal, but I've always liked ogres and I think this would be the perfect opportunity to bring them in as a potential Allied Race. Maybe there could be a subset of more intelligent ogres on Avaloren?
• Tol'vir. Another cool, underappreciated race with strong ties to the titans. Wouldn't mind seeing more of them on Avaloren. Pygmies, too.

- - - Updated - - -

On M+ I'd say Legion had very strongly thematic dungeons and also had by far the easiest dungeons. By making M+ very competitive and trying to reach some parity of difficulty with Mythic raiding to excuse giving near identical rewards, they made even the base versions of dungeons far more complex. People like to occasionally have mindless fun.

I agree with that. I think they've overcomplicated M+, especially coming from a healer main's perspective. It's so hectic now. I don't know if the current season is any better, but Season 1 made me quit Retail.

[Wangming]

And I am not saying DF is bad. DF is far better than SL or WoD. But so many people are acting as if it is an amazing expansion and I just don't see it.

I mean I sort of understand it. Both in terms of systems, fights zones and story, the big problem with DF, at least in my eyes, that it is bland. After being served shit on a plate they are more than happy to have a well-done steak. It may not have a good taste or a good texture, but it isn't flawed in a way dogcrap paired with a pretty cool coleslaw is flawed.

[Enrif]

TBC -> WoD -> Legion
WotLK -> BfA -> SL
Cata -> DF -> 11.0

I don't think this holds up to scrutiny. Especially BfA. BfA fits too well with the Cata Themes. Faction War, Naga, Old Gods, a world that is hurt after a massive event. The conflict even starts in Ashenvale! (remember that Twilight Cultists tried to blame night elf deaths on the horde). Ragnaros tried to burn Nordrassil, while Sylvanas succeeded with burning Teldrassil. It's only missing elementals and dragons.

On the other hand, DF could fit with WotLK. It has Tuskarr, a Grizzly Hills like zone, Wyrmrest Accord on steroids (all dragon flights represented), Sindragosa...

[micwini]

Avaloren, Khaz Algar and Undermine should just be zones in the world revamp expansion.
Avaloren has the issue mentioned above: Another 'lol hidden island' moment. The other 2 are just caves and I can't imagine them having a continent sized area with 6-7 zones that are all in a cave. Especially after the poor reception of Zaralek.

[Dancaris]

Well... that is certainly interesting.

Who is Katherine Bankson again? Is she involved with the writing?

Interview was with Katherine Bankson (Assistant Lead Quest Designer) and Anne Stickney (Senior Narrative Designer). So pretty sure she knows things.

[Wangming]

I loved legion but it wasn't perfect, but like you said for casual like us it was great fun and i mentioned it in the past.

I very much disliked how gutted classes were outside their artifact weapons (Try to make a fresh character and sometimes you get 8 levels of nothing. No skill, no talent, nothing).
I very much liked the strong class identities Legion had.

[Xilurm]

Interview was with Katherine Bankson (Assistant Lead Quest Designer) and Anne Stickney (Senior Narrative Designer). So pretty sure she knows things.

That sounds good. I wouldn't want to get hyped but it does sound good.

[Hitei]

Avaloren, Khaz Algar and Undermine should just be zones in the world revamp expansion.
Avaloren has the issue mentioned above: Another 'lol hidden island' moment.

Not sure reusing the same zones a third time is a good solution to something being overdone.

[Nymrohd]

I don't think this holds up to scrutiny. Especially BfA. BfA fits too well with the Cata Themes. Faction War, Naga, Old Gods, a world that is hurt after a massive event. The conflict even starts in Ashenvale! (remember that Twilight Cultists tried to blame night elf deaths on the horde). Ragnaros tried to burn Nordrassil, while Sylvanas succeeded with burning Teldrassil. It's only missing elementals and dragons.

On the other hand, DF could fit with WotLK. It has Tuskarr, a Grizzly Hills like zone, Wyrmrest Accord on steroids (all dragon flights represented), Sindragosa...

It is also a pattern that has no reason to exist. Just people seeing things that are not there.

[Dracullus]

Imo it's time to drop timer from Mythic+ 2-15. Two major changes happened in S2 of Shadowlands: official rating and overall nerf to dungeons, so now people who push them play 20+ and Keystone Master become participation reward.

Personally I love M0 dungeons on release of expansion and hate playing content with timer (doesn't matter how forgiving it is, it's about existence of timer), so I would play a lot more dungeon I could just casualy gear through seasonal dungeons.

[Dismayxz]

I don't think this holds up to scrutiny. Especially BfA. BfA fits too well with the Cata Themes. Faction War, Naga, Old Gods, a world that is hurt after a massive event. The conflict even starts in Ashenvale! (remember that Twilight Cultists tried to blame night elf deaths on the horde). Ragnaros tried to burn Nordrassil, while Sylvanas succeeded with burning Teldrassil. It's only missing elementals and dragons.

On the other hand, DF could fit with WotLK. It has Tuskarr, a Grizzly Hills like zone, Wyrmrest Accord on steroids (all dragon flights represented), Sindragosa...

But once it is said and done, DF also fits Cataclysm motifs. Notice how we're once again fighting a fiery dragon juiced up with something voidy (Old Gods did Deathwing, but that is still void) and a sibling of said dragon probably helps us take him down, nevermind the fact that we are re-empowering the aspects, when Cataclysm ended on the Aspects loosing said power? The only key difference is, like somebody else said, that Vyranoth doesn't fundamentally disagree with Iridikron's plan, she's just dissatisfied with the way Fyrakk specifically is going about doing things. Which is weird, because it seemed like she was in the know about what Fyrakk was supposed to do down there, which would mean Iridikron and her could've assumed this outcome. It feels more like a bit of a psyop, getting close to Alextrasza and the Aspects, to get empowered, sacrificing Fyrakk on the proverbial chess board for a stronger, less problematic juice-up.

[micwini]

Not sure reusing the same zones a third time is a good solution to something being overdone.

Makes more sense to revisit the outdated originals than to visit another random made up area or a continent sized cave. It is hard to be attached to areas if you are just hopping to the next new random island and never going back.
No one cares about "Avaloren", or "Khaz Algar". The only one of those 3 that has been mentioned in early lore is Undermine and that really doesn't offer much variety for an entire continent.

[ercarp]

It is also a pattern that has no reason to exist. Just people seeing things that are not there.

Reminds me of the Pixar theory where people try to connect all of the Pixar animated movies into a single cohesive universe. There are a few details that line up surprisingly well, but the rest requires a bit of mental gymnastics to make it work, and even the parts that make sense were not intended by Pixar (as confirmed by Pixar themselves).

It makes sense that certain story threads and themes from past expansions would be picked up again later on, especially if they were popular to begin with, but it doesn't mean Blizzard is laying the story out in thematic trilogies.

[Myrrh]

So Amirdrassil is not main capital? Hyjal still has it hope to me
Maybe there will be more world trees across Azeroth. Hyjal, BI, DI. At least 3 will be acting.

Also
>Amirdrassil growing and coming to Azeroth is something both factions are interested in
That is strange topic. What is deal with Horde at Amirdrassil. Dont take away NE victory once again. Give them big W and leave them for 3-4 expacs.

The interesting thing about Amirdrassil being so inherantly intertwined with the Dream is that they can likely open up a new Dreamway portal there; strategically speaking that is massive and not something that was possible to explore for warfare when the Nightmare was rampaging. Not only would they regain instant access to key lands in Kalimdor, but they could bolster Duskwood for the alliance (worgen base anyone?) and even start encroaching into the Hinterlands.

I would not be surprised if Amirdrassil emerges as the new NElf capital in that unused area of the Isles (and various datamining/Marlamin being sus would support that) with the distance from Kalimdor being addressed by the Dreamway. The Horde would obviously be very keen on this too.

[Raetary]

I never actually got to do Deaths of Chromie as I was having a hard time then working 100 hours a week to even look at games and I believe these scenarios have been removed?

It's still fully available.
Just gotta unlock it in Dalaran.

[ercarp]

The only one of those 3 that has been mentioned in early lore is Undermine and that really doesn't offer much variety for an entire continent.

I don't think anyone is expecting Undermine to be able to provide content for an entire expansion. In all likelihood, it would be either a new capital city, a raid, or a patch location. Knowing Blizzard, I would bet my money on them turning it into a raid.

[Dismayxz]

Makes more sense to revisit the outdated originals than to visit another random made up area or a continent sized cave. It is hard to be attached to areas if you are just hopping to the next new random island and never going back.
No one cares about "Avaloren", or "Khaz Algar". The only one of those 3 that has been mentioned in early lore is Undermine and that really doesn't offer much variety for an entire continent.

Imagine if they didn't throw away Fyrakk with Shadowflame and also made the tree grow in the same expansion that it was planted in, awkwardly giving us it's actual name, like everybody knew what it was a patch or two after the damn thing was seeded. Having a reason to let the seedling grow to then later revisit it's growth and this situation where it is threatened. I wouldn't have minded having to go back to the Dragon Isles for a new Raid 2 expansions down the road, that involves everything we're getting in 10.2 - There definitely is a hyperfocus of only making new relevant Content in the place where the current expansion plays, when the reality is that there is absolutely no harm in putting a Raid or a new (not seasonally re-introduced) Dungeon somewhere further from where the current expansion takes places, so long as there is a relation. I feel like that is a major factor in making the world feel underutilized as well. Yes I know some people will find it inconvenient, having to travel to x or y when we could just have the entrance next door, but it's not like it'd be super problematic, especially as old Dungeons rotate into new M+ Seasons and having those Portals can often be a major time save outside of just getting to a specific Dungeon, thus being an incentive to get them.