The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Magistrate]

The way they are framing Amirdrassil in that interview goes against how they are portraying it in game. Lots of Nelves are saying it will be their home, but the devs see it as a "place to rest" before "something new"?

Are they talking about how the Dream Zone is a place to rest before the tree is grown? Or in a meta-sense, Amirdrassil well be the temporary Nelf area before a Hyjal revamp?

Because 8 years(?) and loads of drama to just update Hyjal (something they could've done instantly after BFA) would be insane.

I think there are a couple issues here.

1) All of the out of game and in game text and dialogue before these NPCs has basically said that the tree wouldn't grow to maturity in the dream and that it would need to be transported in some way. This includes all content about it that is currently live.

2) A couple NPCs seem to be saying they're going to live in the Dream

3) All previous content about the Dream has always said that it's difficult to get into and it's really only a thing powerful Druids do. Our forrays as players have been likewise quite limited and usually only under extreme circumstances, excepting perhaps the player Druid in the class hall, who is also really powerful by virtue of accomplishment.

I don't think this is a case of "there's a vast conspiracy by the uwu devs that want to destroy the dream and give nelfs a shitty city." This doesn't make any sense because up until this point the very same story people have been quite clear about number 1, and honestly many of them likely play nelfs and would want a good city. Also, number 2 would be important for the lifetime of the game. Putting a capital in an alternate dimension doesn't make a lot of sense.

I think this is a case of quest scripters either making some honest mistakes here or different people in a (very very large team of hundreds of employees) not being in sync. I don't think this is emblematic of the vision of the team and see no reason to believe so.

[Well Done Steak]

Has Ysera been in the PTR at all? Haven't seen anything with her specifically and find it very sus.

She came back with a brand shiny new model and all she's don't was come back in an epic fashion and handover the reins to her daughter.

Between that and the blizzcon pet I feel like Ysera is a key part of 11.0 along with elune and eonar.

[Sondrelk]

Considering that there simply isn’t a lot of classic lore areas left in WoW, it is doubtful that Blizzard would toss away a potential continent for “reasons”. If they took Dragon Isles from a zone to a continent and turned the Broken Isles into a continent, then Undermine at the very least is going to maintain its vanilla status as a potential continent.

There’s zero reason not to.

You have still not fully acknowledged how plans change though. We don't sit here and wait for the inevitable Dragon Isle peninsula north of Straholme, precisely because we have gotten the Dragon Isles in a different form. It's precise shape and iconic landmarks don't matter.

Undermine definitely exists in lore, but we did by all accounts go there in Cataclysm. We don't have access to it like we probably should, but that doesnt change the fact that the Goblin capital is in the game. It's not really underground, but it's there.
We could go back to Kezan and have it as a zone, but expecting Undermine like what you describe sounds to me like expecting Ulduar to suddenly become a giant continent solely on the basis that it existed on the old concept art maps.

[Ferlion]

Indeed Danuser is the poo coloured crayon that was scribbled over your favourite art piece.

Just...

I know Danuser isn't peoples favorite, but he's not tole sole writer here.

While each company handles it differently, from his Title, danuser would have a lot of creative Sway, his primary job is implementing stories into the game world.

That is to say, he figures out how the in game story is structured and how it can be folded into gameplay.

Think story allocation, certain presentation, how the game tells the story.

And he is limited by obvious constraints. Current engine design, patch cadence, etc.

While I may agree to a certain point that the story has been.... let's go with controversial, the way the story itself has been told and conveyed Is definitely better.

And if there are some very obvious flaws. I.E. story behind reputation. But no new system is perfect, and they've been iterating on that since before he had the job with the War Campaign.

Danuser has his own foibles and my perception of him (which very well could be wrong. He could be tonnes of fun and a genuinely nice guy) isn't great due to some of his social media posts, but I do think that a misunderstanding rhat he's the sole arbiter to blame is an odd on.

[Grazrug]

Just...

I know Danuser isn't peoples favorite, but he's not tole sole writer here.

While each company handles it differently, from his Title, danuser would have a lot of creative Sway, his primary job is implementing stories into the game world.

That is to say, he figures out how the in game story is structured and how it can be folded into gameplay.

Think story allocation, certain presentation, how the game tells the story.

And he is limited by obvious constraints. Current engine design, patch cadence, etc.

While I may agree to a certain point that the story has been.... let's go with controversial, the way the story itself has been told and conveyed Is definitely better.

And if there are some very obvious flaws. I.E. story behind reputation. But no new system is perfect, and they've been iterating on that since before he had the job with the War Campaign.

Danuser has his own foibles and my perception of him (which very well could be wrong. He could be tonnes of fun and a genuinely nice guy) isn't great due to some of his social media posts, but I do think that a misunderstanding rhat he's the sole arbiter to blame is an odd on.

Danuser isn't really that bad. Boring but not bad. As someone reading warhammer novels I know what I mean.

[Draedarr]

Ah yes, inviting Metzen back just in time to kill off his baby. That's some cold shit man.

(there is no way Thrall is dying with Metzen back in creative)

That's why i don't think they'll do anything with Green Jesus, only thing is that if Metzen wants him to go, to evolve the story of his sons and Aggra

[Magistrate]

Metzen gave us TBC. Which had arguably the worst lore since it burned down the whole Illidan gang for no reason. People should not expect too much.

I've been talking with guildies a lot on this point and the consensus seems to be Metzen isn't inherently a good story writer but he is a good world builder and knows the aesthetic that makes players feel like they are playing Warcraft and not something else. Because of this, him being back could really help.

My opinion is that TBC (in agreement with you) was not good storytelling, and he was also involved in the lore that became Shadowlands, and he was also principally involved in WOD. I'd argue WOD had very strong launch content (when it started to work # week after launch). He was heavily involved with everything else and Legion was a resounding win, Pandaria moreso in the long-term perception became a win.

I'm not expecting him to write the narrative and I think he's probably learned a lot from the misses. I think if he can guide the franchise to an overall aesthetic we recognize, that a strong and coherent story narrative can emerge which would very much be a win.

[Skildar]

I don't think my hopes for future expansion are disproportionate and yet I'm still worried ^^'
- guild system and in game calendar overhaul (probably won't happen)
- new type of evergreen activity outdoor (good chances they attempt something)
- environments and bestiary that are imaginative and full of marvel (would make sense they try harder than this expansion)

I don't care what they announce for raids and dungeons because it will probably be same as usual.

[Teriz]

You have still not fully acknowledged how plans change though. We don't sit here and wait for the inevitable Dragon Isle peninsula north of Straholme, precisely because we have gotten the Dragon Isles in a different form. It's precise shape and iconic landmarks don't matter.

Undermine definitely exists in lore, but we did by all accounts go there in Cataclysm. We don't have access to it like we probably should, but that doesnt change the fact that the Goblin capital is in the game. It's not really underground, but it's there.
We could go back to Kezan and have it as a zone, but expecting Undermine like what you describe sounds to me like expecting Ulduar to suddenly become a giant continent solely on the basis that it existed on the old concept art maps.

Well that's a bad comparison. The difference is that Dragon Isles was only a cut vanilla zone up until it was mentioned by Wrathion in BFA. Undermine was a planned continent in vanilla, cut from vanilla, mentioned repeatedly throughout WoW lore, and after Cataclysm was mentioned as a future destination for players by the creative director of Blizzard at the time. Again, you have one of the last major classic lore areas of Warcraft that hasn't been utilized or even seen yet. Why would you not use it? And yeah, the lore makes it clear that Kezan and Undermine are two different places, so going to Kezan is not going to Undermine.

Also the concept of Ulduar got divided into multiple titan facilities throughout Azeroth, and we got a facility called Ulduar in Northrend, so again, bad comparison.

[Magistrate]

-snip-

Strongly agree with everything you said here.

[Myrrh]

Has Ysera been in the PTR at all? Haven't seen anything with her specifically and find it very sus.

She came back with a brand shiny new model and all she's don't was come back in an epic fashion and handover the reins to her daughter.

Between that and the blizzcon pet I feel like Ysera is a key part of 11.0 along with elune and eonar.

She has presence in the campaign, yes.

[Cheezits]

I think there are a couple issues here.

1) All of the out of game and in game text and dialogue before these NPCs has basically said that the tree wouldn't grow to maturity in the dream and that it would need to be transported in some way. This includes all content about it that is currently live.

2) A couple NPCs seem to be saying they're going to live in the Dream

3) All previous content about the Dream has always said that it's difficult to get into and it's really only a thing powerful Druids do. Our forrays as players have been likewise quite limited and usually only under extreme circumstances, excepting perhaps the player Druid in the class hall, who is also really powerful by virtue of accomplishment.

That's just incorrect. They say the tree is their home, while being in the dream zone, but the tree is meant to be outside so they are referring to the tree as their (eventual) home.

It is all but confirmed that the tree gets shifted to reality following the raid/patch anyway. Considering there are a lot of Nelf NPCs that are in the 10.2 files but not the zone, they probably all just appear when the new tree zone appears in reality.

[Well Done Steak]

She has presence in the campaign, yes.

What's her purpose, though?

[Sondrelk]

Well that's a bad comparison. The difference is that Dragon Isles was only a cut vanilla zone up until it was mentioned by Wrathion in BFA. Undermine was a planned continent in vanilla, cut from vanilla, mentioned repeatedly throughout WoW lore, and after Cataclysm was mentioned as a future destination for players by the creative director of Blizzard at the time. Again, you have one of the last major classic lore areas of Warcraft that hasn't been utilized or even seen yet. Why would you not use it? And yeah, the lore makes it clear that Kezan and Undermine are two different places, so going to Kezan is not going to Undermine.

Also the concept of Ulduar got divided into multiple titan facilities throughout Azeroth, and we got a facility called Ulduar in Northrend, so again, bad comparison.

It would not be used for the simple reason it's not there. The continent of Undermine eventually became the island of Kezan, which we have seen.
The island of Kalimdor, and the continent of Ulduar became the continent Kalimdor. The peninsula of the Dragon Isles became an island.

Should we go back to Kezan and have it be a proper location in WoW? Yes. Should Undermine be a subterranean city underneath? Probably.
Should Undermine become a full expansion based on the tenous connection of Undermine being a continent on an old map? No.

Just because Kezan was not literally called Undermine doesnt change the fact that we have been at that location. The only thing we didnt have is the actual subterranean city, which itself doesnt really make sense with what we have seen of Goblins so far.

[Magistrate]

That's just incorrect. They say the tree is their home, while being in the dream zone, but the tree is meant to be outside so they are referring to the tree as their (eventual) home.

It is all but confirmed that the tree gets shifted to reality following the raid/patch anyway. Considering there are a lot of Nelf NPCs that are in the 10.2 files but not the zone, they probably all just appear when the new tree zone appears in reality.

Yes, that's what I'm saying and we're in agreement. I'm doing this from my phone and I had a deadline but in short the thing you're saying I'm wrong on I said feciciously to build a point.

[LemonDemonGirl]

Don’t think so but I might be wrong. I do know that it had one of the existing Uld-names before they were reused. Either Ulduar or Uldum I think.
If I remember correctly the Titan continent was bigger than Kalimdor in original concept too.

But yeah I think it could be cool if it’s part of what we get west of Kalimdor. Maybe as the remaining Uldaz or something.

EDIT: Found It

The mere fact that this picture is as old as I am hurts me inside.
Also interesting to see that 'Azeroth' was originally the name of the Eastern Kingdoms.

[Well Done Steak]

It would not be used for the simple reason it's not there. The continent of Undermine eventually became the island of Kezan, which we have seen.
The island of Kalimdor, and the continent of Ulduar became the continent Kalimdor. The peninsula of the Dragon Isles became an island.

Should we go back to Kezan and have it be a proper location in WoW? Yes. Should Undermine be a subterranean city underneath? Probably.
Should Undermine become a full expansion based on the tenous connection of Undermine being a continent on an old map? No.

Just because Kezan was not literally called Undermine doesnt change the fact that we have been at that location. The only thing we didnt have is the actual subterranean city, which itself doesnt really make sense with what we have seen of Goblins so far.

I'm on the boat that Undermine is most likely going to be a mega dungeon.

Gallywix is up to something big when he's making deals with brokers so that's probably where we'll see him.

[Myrrh]

What's her purpose, though?

IIRC, a guiding hand for Merithra and general advisor on strategy and the Dream itself. She knows how certain aspects of the Dream work and guides her daughter/us on them.

Someone a few pages back(-ish) also dug up an interview where one of the dev team mentioned exploring Alex/Ysera, I think. That is likely not going to be tested though.

I'm on the boat that Undermine is most likely going to be a mega dungeon.

Mega dungeon makes a lot of sense as a subplot, especially if we're half a world away. They would need to be very careful to distinguish it from Mechagon though.

[doledippers]

IIRC, a guiding hand for Merithra and general advisor on strategy and the Dream itself. She knows how certain aspects of the Dream work and guides her daughter/us on them.

yeah this is accurate. having played thru the available story on the PTR, this is essentially her role in 10.2. Won't go into specifics because of spoilers but, yeah.

[Ferlion]

The way they are framing Amirdrassil in that interview goes against how they are portraying it in game. Lots of Nelves are saying it will be their home, but the devs see it as a "place to rest" before "something new"?

Are they talking about how the Dream Zone is a place to rest before the tree is grown? Or in a meta-sense, Amirdrassil well be the temporary Nelf area before a Hyjal revamp?

Because 8 years(?) and loads of drama to just update Hyjal (something they could've done instantly after BFA) would be insane.

https://www.buffed.de/World-of-Warcr...rview-1431522/

Link to the interview.

I'll be honest, with the phrasing it makes me think they weren't expect the feedback to be so negative, but it was something they were too far in to change. So yeah, at this point I think we can see the idea of them moving again. Which honestly, I kinda dig. There are reasons Blizzard is unlikely to go the route of Hyjal.