The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[D4NNYB0Y]

I think a lot of people would like them, but the constant tinkerwank for a decade is annoying sometimes. Nothing against him personally. I will say hes definitely stuck to his guns though. He hasn't wavered a bit.

The tinker discussion is an internet phenomenon from my experience. I can't recall anyone speaking passionately about the topic in the game. I would imagine most players haven't heard of it / thought about it / particularly care one way or another. Assumptions make an ass out of you and me etc. of course.

[RahEndymion]

ETC members are different classes; why do you think they all wear different class tier 6 gear sets

Because bard is a profession :3

[D4NNYB0Y]

I'm not sure what graph you're looking at, but Machinist is one of the least placed classes on that graph too... bottom 30%.

I was looking at endgame characters. The graph you are looking at is skewed heavily by the starter jobs that "evolve" into their advanced jobs. Even on the All Characters graph Machinist is more popular than most of the other advanced jobs that players choose as they level.

[PotHockets]

I'm not sure what graph you're looking at, but Machinist is one of the least placed classes on that graph too... bottom 30%.

All characters means nothing because it's heavily skewed by different levels for job unlocks. Looking at Endgame characters is the better way to do it and more importantly looking at it's role i.e. physical ranged dps. It's in the middle there and super ironically for the current discussion is beat out by bard.

[Baraden]

Do we really need a new class? Every relevant archetype to WoW has been covered since we got DH; Evokers don't really feel very WoW like to me either

I'd much rather them devote the resources of a new class to the existing classes, and finally give us the extra specs many classes are crying out for

Firstly; EVERY class should have at least 2 dps options

Hunters need old survival back as a 4th spec, Warriors need a gladiator spec, Demon Hunters need a third spec and actually to be finished - it's hilarious evoker got a third spec before DH did

[Hitei]

Do you have any data to back up this argument? In my experience, energy weapons/explosives/heavy weapons classes are wildly popular in video games. Engineering classes are a very broad space for game design. They don't need to be pet or turret classes or gadgeteers.

Here's a breakdown for WoW's arguably biggest competitor FFXIV as of August 2023:

https://ffxivcensus.com/#class

Machinist is actually more popular than a number of classes..

Not being absolute last doesn't make it not unpopular. You'll notice that for all characters (the direct measure of popularity rather than optimality) they and gunbreakers are both bottom tier. A quick search shows Cannoneer and Mechanic are both back of the pack for maplestory. Engineer is the least popular GW2 class for overall (it's slightly better but still near bottom in raids).

You misunderstand, I don't mind engineers at all. I frequently play them in games. I'm just relaying my observed experience. They are not popular. People do not gravitate towards tech-y stuff in fantasy games.

[Sondrelk]

Do we really need a new class? Every relevant archetype to WoW has been covered since we got DH; Evokers don't really feel very WoW like to me either

I'd much rather them devote the resources of a new class to the existing classes, and finally give us the extra specs many classes are crying out for

Firstly; EVERY class should have at least 2 dps options

Hunters need old survival back as a 4th spec, Warriors need a gladiator spec, Demon Hunters need a third spec and actually to be finished - it's hilarious evoker got a third spec before DH did

Tinker is the only true WoW class that isnt playable in any way. Not sure how it would look, but there are plenty of examples of Tinkers in lore, and Tinker heroes to take inspiration from.

[Chickat]

The tinker discussion is an internet phenomenon from my experience. I can't recall anyone speaking passionately about the topic in the game. I would imagine most players haven't heard of it / thought about it / particularly care one way or another. Assumptions make an ass out of you and me etc. of course.

Ok, i would like tinkers and in sure a decent amount of players would even if it's not the majority. Its just annoying discussing them every other day for 10 pages. Although i suppose thats what we are doing now too haha.

[pacotaco]

They have been actively moving towards making all classes available to all races. Evoker wasn't because of how very dragon-related it is. But, I imagine if we get Tinker or any other regular class in the future, it will be for all races. Wouldn't really make sense, otherwise, with their paradigm shift.

- Tinker I see it being available to all races from the get go. There's not inherent cultural thing that would class with any race background, and it's very easy to justify it with "it's intelligent and crazy enough to be one".
The other popular classes are a bit more restrictive:
- Spellblade has always been depicted as a typical high elf class, but since every race can be mage, it's easy to justify that they are mages that aplied their knowledge to martial combat (like the arcane equivalent of paladins)
- Blademaster has been shown only through a very few races, but it doesn't look like something that's not easy to teach
- Warden/Priest of the Moon I think it should be initially restricted to races culturally linked to Elune or the night sky. But maybe can be justified making Q'onzu the source of their power to make them a Night Warrior lite and make it available to every race.
- Dark Ranger is probably the most restrictive of them, as they need to be able to become banshees. That limits them to elfs, trolls and humans.

[PotHockets]

Not being absolute last doesn't make it not unpopular. You'll notice that for all characters (the direct measure of popularity rather than optimality) they and gunbreakers are both bottom tier. A quick search shows Cannoneer and Mechanic are both back of the pack for maplestory. Engineer is the least popular GW2 class for overall (it's slightly better but still near bottom in raids).

You misunderstand, I don't mind engineers at all. I frequently play them in games. I'm just relaying my observed experience. They are not popular. People do not gravitate towards tech-y stuff in fantasy games.

Because Gunbreaker unlocks at 70 and Machinist unlocks at 30. All characters is counting ALL characters including bots, including people who did like one quest and dipped, etc.

[D4NNYB0Y]

Not being absolute last doesn't make it not unpopular. You'll notice that for all characters (the direct measure of popularity rather than optimality) they and gunbreakers are both bottom tier. A quick search shows Cannoneer and Mechanic are both back of the pack for maplestory. Engineer is the least popular GW2 class for overall (it's slightly better but still near bottom in raids).

You misunderstand, I don't mind engineers at all. I frequently play them in games. I'm just relaying my observed experience. They are not popular. People do not gravitate towards tech-y stuff in fantasy games.

Fair enough, I apologize for making assumptions. I personally have not cared for the last 4 new classes WoW has implemented, but after 20 years of playing I would enjoy something new. I doubt there will be a new class in 11.0, but I would love to be pleasantly surprised whatever it turns out to be.

Ok, i would like tinkers and in sure a decent amount of players would even if it's not the majority. Its just annoying discussing them every other day for 10 pages. Although i suppose thats what we are doing now too haha.

100%, totally get it. I only post around leak season so it's a fresher topic for me.

[Baraden]

Tinker is the only true WoW class that isnt playable in any way. Not sure how it would look, but there are plenty of examples of Tinkers in lore, and Tinker heroes to take inspiration from.

The most compelling tinker idea I've heard is just giving them a permanent mech akin to mekkatorque; it could even double as a ground and flying mount when out of combat - and with the evoker customisation, tinkers could get the same

They could even get a DVA mechanic as in if you die, your mech dies, and if you can get off a very long cast time (10seconds) you can redeploy it and carry on without actually dying

Of course you'd have to get like a 90% health and damage debuff when in your *normal* form during this time

[lanerios]

Do you have any data to back up this argument? In my experience, energy weapons/explosives/heavy weapons classes are wildly popular in video games. Engineering classes are a very broad space for game design. They don't need to be pet or turret classes or gadgeteers.

Here's a breakdown for WoW's arguably biggest competitor FFXIV as of August 2023:

https://ffxivcensus.com/#class

Machinist is actually more popular than a number of classes.

With all due respect, it sounds as if you don't particularly enjoy engineering/tech class themes (which is fine) and are extrapolating that to mean a majority of other players share similar views. These arguments sound similar to other posters in this thread claiming we can't possibly have an underground or hollow Azeroth expansion because they personally don't like those themes.

I understand not wanting Blizzard to spend resources on something you don't enjoy, but ultimately they will design the game based on whatever features they feel will be most beneficial to player retention and attracting new players. Whether that is adding a bard or engineering class I can't say.

with all due respect, you are using a random third party source with 0 idea of:

How many of these are actually played
How many have these as their main
etc

To give an example, I have MCH on max level on a character, but guess what? I don't play it because it was just a fun trip for me to get to max.


Also looking at said website, we need to look at Ranged DPS, because that is what they are.

Black Mage: 1037626
Arcanist: 1121032
Red Mage: 1078468 (ranged is debatable, since it's more of a mix)
Bard: 1058960
Machinist: 1033852

So out of the ranged? It's the least popular.

Looking at purely dps, the only classes below it are:

Blue Mage (because it can't be played in main content and is more of a side gimmick, much like the Brawler's Guild)
Dancer at 1021943
Reaper at 1010259
Ninja at 993542
Monk at 980965

Which is rather interesting because it shows that the more complicated classes (Monk, Ninja and Reaper) are played the least. Dancer, I have no idea why. But eh, gamers are weird


Also, take these with a huge grain of salt, because I have no idea how trustworthy that site is.

[Izalla]

So if we go to another island or continent or something else, then how many zones at the beginning do you guys want?

I would prefer to have 6 zones like in BFA than 4 main zones again.

I wish Blizz would stop holding off on zones so they can add them in later as max level only content. They do it with dungeons too lately, where they only give you a few of them while leveling and then the rest as max level content even as normals. I just want more variety while leveling, not half the content held back for later =(

[Chickat]

Soooo, the first card for Hearthstone's new expansion is called Thunderbringer, and it is an elemental horse. Is it a stretch to point out the similarity to (Algarian) Stormrider there or am I seeing things?



Not saying the Algarian Stormrider is a horse, just that it seems to fit with what some are thinking could be an elemental gryphon.

Imagine our disappointment if after all this time the mount is a horse lmao. Not a cool Gryphon or elemental, but a horse.

[Catastrophy349]

#Nomoreleaks#

[Chickat]

Which begs the question, what are they announcing at BlizzCon?

Cause they are going to announce large structural changes to Hearthstone monetization and gameplay and need Hearthstone's time slot for that instead.

/tinfoilhat

[Harbour]

https://twitter.com/icyveins/status/1715066325729452228

So Blizzcon mount for D4 was removed for now, but to me its interesting that it has blue lightning special effect. Coincidence or elemental theme for next expansion is confirmed?


edit: looks like i wasnt the first one to bring this up.

[pacotaco]

Yeah but that requires making individual racial themed spells on the level druid+paladin+shaman combined. Pretty unlikely. Hard to really get a cohesive class identity going if your Belf version is using dark anima golems but then turning around and using goblin-y oversized rockets and gnome healing bots.

I think that's the reason why they didn't yet made tinkers. To do it justice they need to make them fit their race aesthetics, which is a lot of work.
And easier way would be to introduce them through a limited choice of races (probable gnome, mecha-gnome, goblin and vulpera as they would only need to make 2 sets, 1 for each faction) and introduce new race combos in the future.

[Chickat]

Hopefully. Dragonflight is so boring and the initial trailer created no hype.

They need to go back to the traditional in game B-roll hype feature trailer. It wasn't the same without it for DF.