The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Sondrelk]

On to something completely different though. We just got old Scarlet Monastery back, and before that we got old Scholomance.
What do people think would be a nice dungeon to get back after this? Sunken Temple would be interesting since it's so radically different from what we have, but beyond that?

[Reive]

At this point a void focused (or light vs void) expansion is all but confirmed.
Especially with the datamined encounters that COULD likely be for DF -> 11.0 transition. I could see a mini-dungeon or raid like Ruby sanctum.

these are probably from the brawler's guild in 10.2.5. wouldn't put much thought into that.

[Teriz]

Well Void vs Light doesn't need to be the final decisive battle between those two forces. Jus A battle with that theme.

We already have posters saying we're fighting Void Lords next, because fighting an Old God is no longer a big deal. That's a prime example of the problem I'm talking about. TBF, such an expansion really needs to be avoided at all cost.

[Reive]

Well Void vs Light doesn't need to be the final decisive battle between those two forces. Jus A battle with that theme.

ehh idk. people don't really want to deal with the same theme unless you plan to make the void the new burning legion with periodic invasions and things like that

[Nebron]

I believe you fix it by simply grounding the expansions and resist the urge to lose your crap and push cosmic silliness. I know Azeroth is running out of new places to explore, which is why a world revamp has to eventually happen, because you have to stick this game to Azeroth by any means necessary.

Yup, I'm also conservative when it comes to WoW. It started as a high-fantasy and should stay high-fantasy. That's what people fell in love with, and everytime they go beyond that trope, they fail. But then again, there's just so much world-building baggage they've created, that you can't simply walk by. It's there, it governs the rules of this IP now, and creating a meaningful story that goes deeper into mythology must meet with the crap they've made by default. It started with Elemental Lords, Elune, the Old Gods and Titans, and here we are, in the mess that even writers can't comprehend, as the interview suggests. I don't think that keeping the story as close to Azeroth as possible would be enough to fix it. It's not like the inhabitants of the presented world are unaware of these forces, so you can utilize the idea of mythology, hope and beliefs. It's a world-wide known fact, we've met them, experienced their presence in reality, so the thin veil between what's real and what's supernatural is kinda broken there. And for that reason alone, the reset seems to be the only way to solve this issue, if you consider this an issue as I do, of course.

[Nightshade711]

The problem though is that people were largely getting sick of Argus by the end of 7.3, and Shadowlands almost killed the game.

Weird because I remember Argus & Antorus being well received.
At most people were tired of the Fel fatigue, mainly because WoD started that by sharing the demon/dark Fel themes. Which will happen again if we get yet another “elemental/underground expansion” right after DF.

Shadowlands wasn’t bad because it was “cosmic”, because Legion showed we can have good cosmic xpacs. It was just the terrible writing and terrible gameplay choices.

And what's the end goal of such an expansion? Are we going to destroy the Void lords, the guys who literally created the Old Gods?

Do you realize how absurd that sounds?

The end goal could be whatever.

Maybe the end goal to repel/kill Xal’atath/Iridikron and their invasion forces from Azeroth.

Perhaps Sargeras is freed & helps us defeat or imprison the void lords during the climax. (Like how the titans were freed and helped us imprison Sargeras)

From what I can speculate from the datamined “dungeon encounter” bosses is that the void is finding a way to breach through dimensions to invade. Perhaps we’ve got to stop entities on this side (like Xal’atath) from making a breach big enough for the void lords themselves to invade.

- - - Updated - - -

these are probably from the brawler's guild in 10.2.5. wouldn't put much thought into that.

Don’t think so. Why would the brawler’s guild have a bunch of thematic bosses added on a brand new (likely encrypted) map, in an instance/dungeon?

[Kiivar86]

The Secrets of Azeroth event showed they're not going to ignore cosmic stuff, so best just suck it up and accept its here to stay. Hell, the dialogue in it outright uses the term cosmic.

You can try and plug your ears, stamp your feet, but it isn't going away.

[Nymrohd]

The Secrets of Azeroth event showed they're not going to ignore cosmic stuff, so best just suck it up and accept its here to stay. Hell, the dialogue in it outright uses the term cosmic.

You can try and plug your ears, stamp your feet, but it isn't going away.

I don't understand the point of your post. People can hate it and can keep hating it if they do. If it annoys you, ignore them.

[Nightshade711]

The Secrets of Azeroth event showed they're not going to ignore cosmic stuff, so best just suck it up and accept its here to stay. Hell, the dialogue in it outright uses the term cosmic.

You can try and plug your ears, stamp your feet, but it isn't going away.

I do understand people’s trepidation about a “cosmic expansion” due to Shadowlands, but it definitely goes overboard.

Just because it’s “cosmic” doesn’t mean it’ll be a bad expansion. Legion showed it can work, and with Metzen back maybe the writing of a “cosmic” expansion would bring us back more in line with that.

[Wangming]

We already have posters saying we're fighting Void Lords next, because fighting an Old God is no longer a big deal. That's a prime example of the problem I'm talking about. TBF, such an expansion really needs to be avoided at all cost.

Yeah well a lot of people seem to want the game to die. Or are just unaware how bad their ideas are

[Kiivar86]

I don't understand the point of your post. People can hate it and can keep hating it if they do. If it annoys you, ignore them.

Yeah I can ignore them, and I generally do but I find it a bit tiring, the complaining about the cosmic stuff. If they can complain about it, then I can complain about their complaints.

They can wish it to not be so, but everything's pointing to cosmic sticking around. If anything, a reinforcement.

I do understand people’s trepidation about a “cosmic expansion” due to Shadowlands, but it definitely goes overboard.

Just because it’s “cosmic” doesn’t mean it’ll be a bad expansion. Legion showed it can work, and with Metzen back maybe the writing of a “cosmic” expansion would bring us back more in line with that.

Mm, exactly.

[Nightshade711]

We already have posters saying we're fighting Void Lords next, because fighting an Old God is no longer a big deal. That's a prime example of the problem I'm talking about. TBF, such an expansion really needs to be avoided at all cost.

I must’ve missed it but I don’t think anyone has said we’re fighting “the void lords” next.
An expansion being “light vs void” ≠ us directly fighting & killing the void lords.

[Sondrelk]

The Secrets of Azeroth event showed they're not going to ignore cosmic stuff, so best just suck it up and accept its here to stay. Hell, the dialogue in it outright uses the term cosmic.

You can try and plug your ears, stamp your feet, but it isn't going away.

The problem isnt the existence of cosmic stuff. That part is inevitable when you are dealing with such a large and expansive series. The issue is spending large amount of time close by, or worse still within it.

The problem with Shadowlands wasnt the cosmic implications of an afterlife created by higher beings. The problem was that we started inside the Shadowlands, which left us nowhere to escalate but to reveal even more stuff about it, which removed the mystery.
Comparatively we could have started in a revamped Northrend, where the Shadowlands is an important factor, but we don't see much of it beyond what potential visitors form beyond the veil tells us. That way we could have then naturally escalated to going inside the Shadowlands, where the weird workings would have added to the mystery, rather than detracted from it.

Imagine if Legion started on Argus. It would have started out fine, but by the time you get to the final oatch the only way to truly escalate would have been to involve ourselves heavily into the Titan stuff, possibly going to different Titan planets and learned how they work and what have you.
Instead Legion did the right thing by distancing the players from the cosmic stuff long enough that by the time we got to the finale the ending could be full dive into the theme, and then end before we got really sick of it, or had to overexplain to give new patches any weight.

[Lady Atia]

On to something completely different though. We just got old Scarlet Monastery back, and before that we got old Scholomance.
What do people think would be a nice dungeon to get back after this? Sunken Temple would be interesting since it's so radically different from what we have, but beyond that?

Old Zul Gurub and Naxx, but I doubt we will get them thanks to the crafting secrets there ... that said, I still would love a timewalking version on top of the crafting. Just make it so that you can't do it all the time and gear/mounts would still be rare.

[keelr]

Well, do share it when you find it and it's from before the WotLK announcement

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...K-Massive-leak I think it was this one, i've seen it first in SL hype thread

[Lady Atia]

The problem isnt the existence of cosmic stuff. That part is inevitable when you are dealing with such a large and expansive series. The issue is spending large amount of time close by, or worse still within it.

The problem with Shadowlands wasnt the cosmic implications of an afterlife created by higher beings. The problem was that we started inside the Shadowlands, which left us nowhere to escalate but to reveal even more stuff about it, which removed the mystery.
Comparatively we could have started in a revamped Northrend, where the Shadowlands is an important factor, but we don't see much of it beyond what potential visitors form beyond the veil tells us. That way we could have then naturally escalated to going inside the Shadowlands, where the weird workings would have added to the mystery, rather than detracted from it.

Imagine if Legion started on Argus. It would have started out fine, but by the time you get to the final oatch the only way to truly escalate would have been to involve ourselves heavily into the Titan stuff, possibly going to different Titan planets and learned how they work and what have you.
Instead Legion did the right thing by distancing the players from the cosmic stuff long enough that by the time we got to the finale the ending could be full dive into the theme, and then end before we got really sick of it, or had to overexplain to give new patches any weight.

An Argus expansion would have worked just fine, the problem would have been having it literally after HFC and Broken Isles Legion, leading to huge demon fatigue.

[Nightshade711]

The problem isnt the existence of cosmic stuff. That part is inevitable when you are dealing with such a large and expansive series. The issue is spending large amount of time close by, or worse still within it.

The problem with Shadowlands wasnt the cosmic implications of an afterlife created by higher beings. The problem was that we started inside the Shadowlands, which left us nowhere to escalate but to reveal even more stuff about it, which removed the mystery.
Comparatively we could have started in a revamped Northrend, where the Shadowlands is an important factor, but we don't see much of it beyond what potential visitors form beyond the veil tells us. That way we could have then naturally escalated to going inside the Shadowlands, where the weird workings would have added to the mystery, rather than detracted from it.

Imagine if Legion started on Argus. It would have started out fine, but by the time you get to the final oatch the only way to truly escalate would have been to involve ourselves heavily into the Titan stuff, possibly going to different Titan planets and learned how they work and what have you.
Instead Legion did the right thing by distancing the players from the cosmic stuff long enough that by the time we got to the finale the ending could be full dive into the theme, and then end before we got really sick of it, or had to overexplain to give new patches any weight.

I agree with this.
I definitely don’t think we’re going to the realm of the void (or even a void planet like K’aresh or whatever) at the start of the expansion. All signs point to us going to “Khaz Algar” and maybe Avaloren.
With what we know about both, it makes a lot of sense for the void to want to use those as a place to invade.

[Wangming]

Okay, we don't want to fight the Void Lords now.
So what or whom DO we want to fight?
Here is my Top10

Vampire army of Denathrius
Naga
Knaifu's private army
Drust
Aqir and all related bug swarms
Mogu
Evil worgen
Blood Trolls
....literally anyone else
Elementals.

[Nightshade711]

Okay, we don't want to fight the Void Lords now.
So what or whom DO we want to fight?
Here is my Top10

Vampire army of Denathrius
Naga
Knaifu's private army
Drust
Aqir and all related bug swarms
Mogu
Evil worgen
Blood Trolls
....literally anyone else
Elementals.

Probably Xal’atath, Iridikron, maybe some old gods idk

[ZyntosAran]

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...K-Massive-leak I think it was this one, i've seen it first in SL hype thread

WOWszene de. Holy shit that brings back Memories of Stevinho and (RIP ) Vanion, and the WOW Night.