The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nymrohd]

so what? didn't get your point sorry

I mean, if the plot demands it, we kill really powerful things without any power ups.

[Demonly]

Craiyon absolutely can and I'm 99% convinced those screenshots were specifically made using Craiyon (with the watermark edited out). The screenshots all have the same rounded corners as well.

EDIT: Example using the prompt "world of warcraft screenshot of a zone with purple sky and blue rivers". They're not all perfect, but neither is the prompt. It still does a fairly decent job of capturing the WoW aesthetic. Much better than DALL-E, Midjourney, or StableDiffusion anyhow.

This might explain why the images in scalefaces album are all so tiny. They don't want the obvious glaring AI bits to stand out.

[Reive]

I mean, if the plot demands it, we kill really powerful things without any power ups.

ahhh sure. ofc they can make us kill w/e they want. i was just saying that they have an "excuse" to make us weaker and struggle against smaller threats

[Psilent]

It's Nothing
The seventh force is literally nothing
No void
No light
No death
No life
No cycle
Nothing

I think Bellular was talking about this in a video awhile back, however, he seems to be more angry as of late, so I haven't watched any videos from him in a month or so. Not sure if he expanded upon this idea recently though.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

the eternal ones should be the death counterpart of the titans. they should be equally strong. but yeah, i never felt they were stronger than them.

Given that they are all tied to there realms and can and likely have split there power to spread through out the realms I wouldn’t be surprised if they were only on par with the titans if they say absorbed there realms and all the anima in them and other wise are likely below a titans avatar.

The Jailer him self was likely above a Avatar with the anima he got in the Maw but given that the devs flip flopped I wouldn’t say above an actual full powered Titan like Sargaras.

[Wangming]

No we dont. If you wanna have the power fantasy of slapping shit with a stick classic is right there.

Listen. I know this is a me problem, but they just brought my father to the hospital so I have a pretty low torelance for bullshit tonight. I'm pretty sure your pedantic ass knows very well there is a fine line between killing boars and literal gods. If we go down to a level where a mortal can put up a challenge, we are good.

[Magistrate]

Did the First Ones exist before the Void Lords?

[Psilent]

Did the First Ones exist before the Void Lords?

Yes, its implied they were created by the First One's.

[matijwow]

Wouldnt void, ENTROPY, be "nothing"?

This is just a fundamental problem with their lore which is why we can't take it too seriously.

The difference between Order and Disorder, Life and Death, is that the latter are defined by an absence of the former, a negation. Yet the lore sets it up as a symmetrical, positive force. To use a math analogy, they're saying that 1 and 0 are opposites, when IRL they're not at all.

[PotHockets]

Listen. I know this is a me problem, but they just brought my father to the hospital so I have a pretty low torelance for bullshit tonight. I'm pretty sure your pedantic ass knows very well there is a fine line between killing boars and literal gods. If we go down to a level where a mortal can put up a challenge, we are good.

Im sorry you're going through that and I hope he's okay.

That said I dont agree. I think the cosmic stuff is far more interesting at this point and genuinely find the "aDvEnTuREr" concept when weve been killing gods since vanilla eye roll worthy. Everyone likes different shit.

[huth]

This is just a fundamental problem with their lore which is why we can't take it too seriously.

The difference between Order and Disorder, Life and Death, is that the latter are defined by an absence of the former, a negation. Yet the lore sets it up as a symmetrical, positive force. To use a math analogy, they're saying that 1 and 0 are opposites, when IRL they're not at all.

I think that's more of a terminology issue than one with the design. We don't really have a word for anti-order. Though death is not the absence of life. Death is the end of life. It can't exist without life. For that matter, we'd run into some pretty big issues if nothing ever died.


On a semi-related note, there seems to be some confusion here about what entropy is. "Nothing" isn't even close.

[Azalar]

Whatever the cosmic forces, I'm sure they'll find ways to diversify them even more, like mixing Order with Light, Order with Decay and so on and so forth. This is not over yet xD

[PotHockets]

I think that's more of a terminology issue than one with the design. We don't really have a word for anti-order. Though death is not the absence of life. Death is the end of life. It can't exist without life. For that matter, we'd run into some pretty big issues if nothing ever died.

Yeah balance seems to be the point. They're always in contention with each other but you can't have Order without Chaos to give it meaning. Cant have life without death to give it meaning. Cant cast a shadow without light.

The concept is solid but the phrasing isn't handled the best and also it bothers the hell out of me that they called it Disorder instead of Chaos.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

For the Jailer however? No. He's straight up Titan-beyond Titan level. This is not a debate.

Given that through out shadows the Devs said the eternal ones were, Titan keeper level, right under Titan, equal to Titans, and finally Titan plus plus, it is very much up for debate even within blizzard.

[Nymrohd]

Yes. All Pantheons (The Titans, the Void Lords, the Lords of Life, the Eternal Ones, and (supposedly) the Lords of Disorder and Light) are children of the First Ones.

That is entirely an assumption. The Eternal Ones are creations of the First Ones, that is true and we can presume Elune is similar. We have no conclusive evidence the same is true for the rest. The Void Lords could have been attracted to the Void from a different universe or could have been forced into the Void by them. We have no evidence that any of the other forces have an overseeing roster of entities. As for the Titans are an effect of this pattern of creation but we cannot know if they are intended or accidental.

[locketto]

just gimme the black empire plz

[Nymrohd]

Ah yes, an assumption...

Ignore the fact that Danuser and the game itself suggests otherwise. No, I'm the one assuming here. Sure, let's go with that...

How many times must I bring these things up to y'all?

A suggestion is not evidence. It is just your mind seeking to find a pattern. A pattern we know will be readily discarded if gameplay makes it more convenient for a different story to be told. And you can bring your headcanon forever, it's not like anyone moderates that crap here. It will still be head canon until there is evidence. What is up with people choosing a favourite part of lore and making it their forum identity??? Oh well, you'll switch to another thing when the next shiny "lore" will show up.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Do I have to make a separate thread with the evidence proving the Void Lords are descended from the First Ones? Or?

please do then you can stop flooding this one with your fanfic.

[Houle]

For the Jailer however? No. He's straight up Titan-beyond Titan level. This is not a debate.

Yes it is. You are basing this one the fact that they once described him as titan+

Yknow what theyve also said?
That the Eternal One are Titan Keeper level.
Or that the Titans created something "worse than an OG" when they created G'huun.
Or that G'huun was "quite less powerful than the real OGs, lore-wise".

They are contradicting themselves/changing it however they want every second interview or book they release.
Basically, the words of a dev in an interview is worthless, especially when they are in the "hyping up the new xpac" stage. They say whatever they want.
What we can judge is what weve seen them do in the lore. And purely from that, the Jailer and the other Eternal Ones were absolutely not even close to a fully powered, healthy titan.

[Nymrohd]

just gimme the black empire plz

I'd love to see more too. It's why I really want some kind of content that is not meant to impact the story based on Cavern of Times. So much history in WoW we can explore.